Victory vs. Harley motor comparison video

[Moosedeuce]

Victory comparing crank, rods, intake, starter, primary, cam chain tensioners, stator and more.  Done by Victory in Arizona in 5 videos. I'll post all five, hope you can see them.

Wonder how the MoCo will respond to this,

Victory vs. Harley - Segment 1

Victory vs. Harley - Segment 2

Victory vs. Harley - Segment 3

[RedFXR2]

First, I would say that the clips illustrate what (I think) we all know, and that is that Victory has a big advantage in technology.  I would say that the Victory engine is the V-Twin as it should be designed for the current times.  HD hasn't changed much of anything for many decades now--still producing what are essentially brand new antiques.  They look to the owner to fix all the designed-in shortcomings at their own expense, after paying a purchase premium price.....and we've been apparently fine with that, so why should Harley upgrade their design?  Instead of investing in engineering, Harley invests in continuing the "Harley mystique" so the market for their bikes will continue.

Second, some of the specific Harley weaknesses are reasons why I'm still on my 1999 Evo--I don't have those weaknesses.  The cam chain tensioner shoes, and the low oil pressure bottom end (really the issue here is plain bearings versus rollers), crankshaft runout issues, are things i don't worry about.  Sure, I'd much rather have overhead cams and a different stator design, along with conventional connecting rods (Victory features).

I have friends who have Victorys and I have to tell you--they don't tinker with their bikes.  They just wash them and ride them.  Periodic maintenance is pretty much it.  They don't break, and make great power stock, so there's not much need to try to improve them.

I like my HD FXR with it's Evo motor.  I'm not even thinking about upgrading to any other bike.  But I'll also say that if I were to go shopping for another V-twin, I'd look hard at Victory.  In the V-twin world, (IMO) they have the best product.  One of the main reasons I'm not interested in new Harleys is the knowledge that I'd have to do so much to one to get it to where I'd want it.  Victory is already there.  Harley could learn a lot from Victory but, going back to my opening statement, they don't need to as long as sales stay good with their current product.

The more Victorys I see, the more I like them.  Not meant to pi$$ of any of the Harley faithful--I'm one of them.  Just my opinion.

[CndUltra88]

Well Red FXR2, that is what makes America so Great, one is entitled to one opinion!
I am sure there is going to be some spirited debate later today, to bad I have to head out to work.
Ride Safe.
Rob

[HV]

Victory = Jap Engine Technology ... Honda uses a over running starter system as they do... and they have one way bearing issues as do Yamaha... Cam Tensioners ? ... ask a Victory Tech how long it will take to change a Tensioner on one of them..... and YES they will wear out as they are a copy of a Honda Shadow system... a Cam chain on a Victory is over 2 FEET LONG !! its going to stretch !! Stator issues?? Honda has the SAME outer stator set up and they fail as well... No one upgrades a Victory engine performance wise because its OK now?? BS ... its because the over head cam set up is far to costly to open the engine and make any changes... as its the SAME as a Honda shadow and just not worth the time involved to do one.. Can a Victory Engine top end be rebuilt with out removing the engine ? Just asking....

Ugly Bikes with a Copy of a Honda Engine ... Sweet ...used Victory's are worth Dick ALL ... we wont even take one on trade ...no one wants a used Victory

[Ajayrk]

The guy has some of his information wrong.  The chain tensioner is not hydraulic and front wheel drive cars use a chain to transmit power to the transmission.

And if he is going to convince the public he needs to improve his halting delivery.   

Plain bearing engines have to have high pressure to keep a film of oil between the bearing and the shaft.  Roller bearings last just as long but don't need high pressure to maintain lubrication.

[chopper]

C'mon HV..  Tell us how ya REALLY feel!                     

[HV]

C'mon HV..  Tell us how ya REALLY feel!                     

I sometimes have issues expressing myself................

[PC_Hater]

The Victory motor isn't really Jap technology, it is just that is how a modern engine is built. I would prefer belts to cam chains, but that is only due to horror stories from Honda owners. Mercedes have used cam chains for years. SAAB use primary chains, I was shocked when the mechanic showed me my engine in pieces on the bench...

Removing cams from DOHC motors is easy - access to the motor notwithstanding! I'm used to splitting the cases on old Triumphs to get at the cams.

There are specific weaknesses Harley need to address, as for alternators - use the properly specified (expensive) wire and you don't get any problems from heat.

And I like daft old bikes that happen to be modern and reliable. Hardleys don't rev high enough to need th epushrods designing out. They (probably) don't need 4 valves.

[hd06myway]

First, I would say that the clips illustrate what (I think) we all know, and that is that Victory has a big advantage in technology.  I would say that the Victory engine is the V-Twin as it should be designed for the current times.  HD hasn't changed much of anything for many decades now--still producing what are essentially brand new antiques.  They look to the owner to fix all the designed-in shortcomings at their own expense, after paying a purchase premium price.....and we've been apparently fine with that, so why should Harley upgrade their design?  Instead of investing in engineering, Harley invests in continuing the "Harley mystique" so the market for their bikes will continue.

Second, some of the specific Harley weaknesses are reasons why I'm still on my 1999 Evo--I don't have those weaknesses.  The cam chain tensioner shoes, and the low oil pressure bottom end (really the issue here is plain bearings versus rollers), crankshaft runout issues, are things i don't worry about.  Sure, I'd much rather have overhead cams and a different stator design, along with conventional connecting rods (Victory features).

I have friends who have Victorys and I have to tell you--they don't tinker with their bikes.  They just wash them and ride them.  Periodic maintenance is pretty much it.  They don't break, and make great power stock, so there's not much need to try to improve them.

I like my HD FXR with it's Evo motor.  I'm not even thinking about upgrading to any other bike.  But I'll also say that if I were to go shopping for another V-twin, I'd look hard at Victory.  In the V-twin world, (IMO) they have the best product.  One of the main reasons I'm not interested in new Harleys is the knowledge that I'd have to do so much to one to get it to where I'd want it.  Victory is already there.  Harley could learn a lot from Victory but, going back to my opening statement, they don't need to as long as sales stay good with their current product.

The more Victorys I see, the more I like them.  Not meant to pi$$ of any of the Harley faithful--I'm one of them.  Just my opinion.

You just made a great argument for Harley's, you don't even have to consider buying a new one because your old one is still great, what more can we say... lol!    I'm not surprised, as I owned a EVO for 17 yrs and put over 120k miles on it.  I am surprised you have friend(s) who own Victory's though... for the life of me, I can't count more than 3 or 4 at big bike gatherings or rallies I go to... but then again, I never see any old Evo's anywhere either, where'd they all go? 

[RedFXR2]

I am sure there is going to be some spirited debate later today, to bad I have to head out to work.

Later today?  Heck, it didn't take nearly that long.  LOL

Victory = Jap Engine Technology ... Honda uses a over running starter system as they do... and they have one way bearing issues as do Yamaha... Cam Tensioners ? ... ask a Victory Tech how long it will take to change a Tensioner on one of them..... and YES they will wear out as they are a copy of a Honda Shadow system... a Cam chain on a Victory is over 2 FEET LONG !! its going to stretch !! Stator issues?? Honda has the SAME outer stator set up and they fail as well... No one upgrades a Victory engine performance wise because its OK now?? BS ... its because the over head cam set up is far to costly to open the engine and make any changes... as its the SAME as a Honda shadow and just not worth the time involved to do one. Can a Victory Engine top end be rebuilt with out removing the engine ? Just asking....

Ugly Bikes with a Copy of a Honda Engine ... Sweet ...used Victory's are worth Dick ALL ... we wont even take one on trade ...no one wants a used Victory

It's not Jap engine technology, it's modern engine technology.  Nothing wrong with that.  The cam chains on a Victory may be two feet long--don't know.  But the primary chain on Harleys is about two feet long.  Car engines have used long timing chains and now belts for 100K miles for years now.  The tensioners work and handle stretch until the chain/belt is worn out.  Harley could do the same thing.  I wouldn't begrudge a major repair after 100K miles.  Rebuilding one without removal from the frame wouldn't be an issue if it was only necessary after a whole lot of miles.  All of my firiends Victorys are stock, one is 92 inch and the other two are 100's.  I can't begin to keep up with any of them if they want to leave me--and I've got a moderately massaged Evo that I once thought was pretty strong.  If I had their power, I wouldnt be inclined to open the motor up to search for more, so cost would be irrelevant.  And each of the three friends of mine who own Victory's bought them used.  One is a Harley convert.

You just made a great argument for Harley's, you don't even have to consider buying a new one because your old one is still great, what more can we say... lol!    I'm not surprised, as I owned a EVO for 17 yrs and put over 120k miles on it.  I am surprised you have friend(s) who own Victory's though... for the life of me, I can't count more than 3 or 4 at big bike gatherings or rallies I go to... but then again, I never see any old Evo's anywhere either, where'd they all go? 

Yep, I'm still happy with my twelve year old Harley.  I have no intention of shopping for any replacement any time soon, regardless of brand.  What I meant was if something were to happen to my bike, theft/total wreck, whatever, I'd seriously look at Victory.  Age-wise I'm pretty much out of the market at this point, anyway.  As for rally's, they are mainly aimed at the HD world from the outset.  I see other brands at watering holes more than the rallies--but then I don't much go the big ones anymore, myself.

Like i said, I didn't mean to offend anybody.  I'm just being objective in a world driven by passion and brand loyalty.  I guess that drives the HD folks crazy, but it's not meant to.  I think Victory is a great choice for a V-twin bike for an owner who is more into riding than wrenching.  The older I get, the more I fit that description.  And I think a substantial number of younger riders do, too.

[chopper]

C'mon HV..  Tell us how ya REALLY feel!                     

I sometimes have issues expressing myself................

sure don't LOOK that way.....   hehehehh

[ultra200922]

Victory is made by Polaris, stop by any Polaris dealer and see the line of equipment to be repaired. If the engines are the same as  their 4 wheelers and snowmobiles they sure are not built that great. I agree H-D should put out more power stock, but I cannot knock their reliability. 

[paulkay]

Thank you for the movies, he was a little off on some of the Harley diagnosis but not bad. I will be changing out from my 1987 FXSTC that has 243,643 miles that I am trying to fix after accident.  There was hustle on the Victory stuff but not much, would have been right if he had mentioned tranny problems and that the oil is feeding everything. When I finally get one filtermag goes on, about the same as my bike.

[Bakon]

I only see three parts posted so I don't know what the other two are about. Commenting on what I saw

The pushrod and primary chain: He puts down the primary chain by having a mechanical part, a gear. Then puts down the Harley mechanical part (pushrod) and uses a chain to reach the cams. So a chain is better when they use it, but not for the Harley.

Tensioners: wear out, but 20k miles is not going to do it. I would not inspect the tensioners until 50,000. What is the interval on the long ones?

The split connecting rods: these don't fail in a stock or slightly modified Harley. The cranks are shifting. Also 13 thousands is not comparable to an egg.

109 years: thinking the 100 anniversary was in 2003. OK close enough.

oil pumps: I use a Feuling but seen plenty of stock ones with over 50,000 miles which the owner did not shut down everytime it idled. The newer pumps do put out more flow, don't know the pressure. Funny thing is flow and pressure are related, but not in a 1:1 comparison. Look at 8 inch fire department lines which flow a ton to the truck, where pressure is build up to the smaller 2 inch hand line. The 2 inch has a "Potty mouth" load of pressure, but less flow. Our real old pumper actually had a lever on the pump for "flow" or "pressure". Their 70psi might not compare to a Harley to 50psi.

The lifter: hydraulic or not, they still use hydraulic on the rockers to activate the valves. We have to use these or we would need to set valve lash. The metals grow at heat and the valves would loose contact. 

Last thing I will comment on is the HEMI piston. Go look at a 95 inch Harley HTCC piston. The Hemi was a pop up piston. Nothing else. Just about any piston besides the flat top, is a hemi. The race cars had more than a raised piston, they used heads and size to be more powerful.

Notice I did not bash the Victory. I wish we only had 8 gaskets is about the only thing I would want. That and the stator (which has really not been much problem after the 99-01 bikes all wore theirs out and were replaced.)

[Bakon]

Forgot the 4qt thing. Come on. They use 4 or 5, we got 4 in oil, one in the tranny and 1 in primary. Who cares.

[ViennaHog]

Thanks for the video. The ensuing discussion on this subject along with the SE comp and the $6000 engine repair should get us to spring in no time.

[88b]

I'm surprised the Victory man isn't into polotics or selling fertilizer    I've ridden a few Victory's and have been impressed with the way they ride and the finish. It's not a Harley it's their take on a cruiser, I was very impressed with the way the Cross Country rode it feels a lot lighter than a Road Glide or Ultra but it has a lot less low down torque, it feels more like a V Rod to ride. Personally I think Victory is a good thing because the more they sell HD will have to up their game.

[road-dawgs1]

Thanks for the video. The ensuing discussion on this subject along with the SE comp and the $6000 engine repair should get us to spring in no time.

What's the best oil to use if I were to get a Victory?  

[RK103]

Ultra; No comparison in the amount of abuse inflicted on an atv or snowmobile and a harley.

[Superheat9]

Thanks, for sharing the videos. I do like the King Pin and the Hammer. They are an American made bike so no reason to bash them. As for me, I will continue to ride my Harley's.

[fourthgear]

Gee where can I get one ?
Ya think they will take a trade on my 63 year old Harley , that doesn't measure up to the Victory ?
Or maybe my 46 year old .
Lets see how long there's are on the road!
No matter what you think of the HD design , they are battle proven!

[mayor]

time will tell if they are a better bike.  I just can't get into there style. Give me those features and hire Russell Mitchel to design the bike in a minimalist manner, and I might consider it.....but life's too short to ride an ugly bike (is that how that saying went  ).....


Has anyone compared the price right now I between a 1999 FXR2 over a 1999 V92C? the Harley retail value is about twice that of the Victory.    even the '99 FXD (HD lowest price TC) has a current retail value 50% higher than the '99 V92c.   Must kinda suck for them to be worth so much less than an obviously inferior bike   


sorry, I ain't buying the lack of performance parts as a sign that they don't need upgrades.....afterall we're men aren't we.     we tare down perfectly good running bikes, just to make them run faster.....my guess is it's much harder for the average dyi guy to work on that 1990's technology.   

[HroadhogD1]

    First that Victory Vision is Ugly!

  In about 1999 a guy I know told me he wanted to buy a Harley.  Then he came home with a Victory.  He said he wasn't going to pay fifteen grand for a bike so he bought the Victory for about 11,500.  Then he wanted the windshield, saddlebags,pipes, and computer chip.  He ended up paying about 13,500.  He said for another 1,500 I could of had a Harley.  He rode it for a year and sold it to buy a Harley.  He sold the victory for 5,000.

  Victory does have some good ideas, and they are American made.  There is something I don't like about them, just not sure what it is.                               I am going to keep riding my Harley Davidson.

[ultra200922]

Victory, Making Harley's look good since 1999.

[timetraveler]

Victory, Making Harley's look good since 1999.