Victory vs. Harley motor comparison video

[Tsani]

No matter what you think of the HD design , they are battle proven!

Literally!

[chopper]

If you read the history of HD, you'll see they have always had reputation of being durable!   Harley has done a truly magnificent job of carrying on that tradition.  Are they perfect?  course not.  But they ARE more dependable than ever, and they are easy to maintain and repair.   (Imagine the time and cost involved in doing a top end on just about any import.)

Personally, I have nothing against Victory's.   I think their engineering is outstanding.   Looks?  Got to give HD the nod; they really do a nice job in the design dept (with a few exceptions).

  What would be nice to picture?  Think of what might happen if HD bought out Victory.  Taking the best of both could make for quite a package.

[tdkkart]

2002 or 2003 in Sturgis, wife and I were wandering through the Victory display, sales guy hot on my tail blathering.

He puffs up his chest and says "we've got Arlen Ness on our design team"

I looked him straight in the face and said "sorry to hear that, his "Potty mouth"'s ugly as hell".  My wife nearly crapped as sales guy shrugged his shoulders and went slinking back to his corner.

10 years later the styling is classic Ness, ugly as hell, and getting worse as he lays hands on every bike in the line-up.

When they first showed up I said I'd be first in line when they came out with a touring model.
They did, I ain't buying. I tour Iowa and surrounding areas, not the flippin' galaxy, I don't need a damn space ship.

[mayor]

I looked him straight in the face and said "sorry to hear that, his "Potty mouth"'s ugly as hell".  My wife nearly crapped as sales guy shrugged his shoulders and went slinking back to his corner.

10 years later the styling is classic Ness, ugly as hell, and getting worse as he lays hands on every bike in the line-up.

I posted on the other Victory thread that I thought the biggest issue keeping me from buying one was the styling of the Ness's. 

[hotroadking]

Funny, how we protect our own
but are it's worst critics too.

Drop a video bomb from a guy
shooting down HD's technology
and you get comments about
age tested reliability,

Yet go to another forum
and the same group (HD owners) are bashing
HD's crappy crank design or the cost cutting bean counters
bearing decision, or the crappy stator that keeps going out,
cam tensioners, low oil pressure, high oil temps, hot
engine, switching 02 sensors, crappy EFI (MM) etc..


It's American Made
with jobs in America
putting food in American Family mouths

Go Victory and Go HD...

Ride what you like
just don't ride rice....

[nmainehunter]

If they wanted to be so different why do they try to look Harley.I wonder how many people that don't know a Harley from a Ford has told the Vic guy that he has a nice looking Harley!

[hd06myway]

I see alot of Victory is USA, but I recall reading recently, that they were moving some of their major mfg'ing process over the border, is that true?  If so, more American jobs lost.  I don't believe HD does this... yea they buy some foreign parts, but all major components, trans, motors, frames, cases, etc..are built here in the US.

[chopper]

are built here in the US.

Except those built in Brazil, and India..

[Tsani]

Not sure, but I do beleive that Brazil is an assembly plant only.

[hotroadking]

Polaris is a big company, international locations but Victory is USA made.
Click here for locations of plants

It employees also own stock, it's non union and Still
a USA Company...

[hd06myway]

Polaris is a big company, international locations but Victory is USA made.
Click here for locations of plants

It employees also own stock, it's non union and Still
a USA Company...

I know it's a US co., but I also read they were moving their assy plant from Minn to some other state and out sourcing to Mexico, major mfg operations in regardss to the Victory mcycle.  At least that is what I think I read. 

[hd06myway]

are built here in the US.

Except those built in Brazil, and India..

LOL! But those aren't sold here in the states with "Made In The USA" stamped on them.

[Ultrashovel]

I'm glad that Victory is in business since it's mostly an American company. I'm still not buying one.

[hotroadking]

I know it's a US co., but I also read they were moving their assy plant from Minn to some other state and out sourcing to Mexico, major mfg operations in regardss to the Victory mcycle.  At least that is what I think I read. 

It was a rumor started when then moved engine production in MN from one plant to another.
Engine production is still in the USA..

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/4/6993/Motorcycle-Article/Victory-Moving-Engine-Production-to-Spirit-Lake.aspx

[Ultrashovel]

I know it's a US co., but I also read they were moving their assy plant from Minn to some other state and out sourcing to Mexico, major mfg operations in regardss to the Victory mcycle.  At least that is what I think I read. 

It was a rumor started when then moved engine production in MN from one plant to another.
Engine production is still in the USA..

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/4/6993/Motorcycle-Article/Victory-Moving-Engine-Production-to-Spirit-Lake.aspx

They are opening a manufacturing plane in Monterey, Mexico. That's mentioned in your thread above as well. With the poor manuifacturing support given to companies by the present government, who could blame them?



http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/OurCompany/News/PressReleases/Pages/PolarisToRealignManufacturingOperations.aspx

[trex]

Damn, now I'm affraid to ride my Harley, somethins goina break on it, I just know it! Ha Ha. I have nothng against Victory's, I hope they stay in business for over 100 years too. The more American companys the better, but that guy should be doin infomercials, and of course his audience is some guy that doesn't know squat about motors so no argument from him. That argument about the knife and fork rods was stupid. Harleys do not have any rocking motion because of that and I like that fact and there have been many Top Fuelers with 900 hp with that configuration. I know that many Fuelers now run side by side rods but I think part of the reason for that is easier tear down.

[Bakon]

Many parts were just plain stupid. He changed sides to match the parts they used. Tensioners are ok for the overhead cams, but not harleys chain drive cams, mechanical gear ok for primary but a mechanical pushrod was not. I would love to see him talk to a guy who knows his Harley engine and say the same things. Or anyone mechanical to argue points back. I love the HEMI part the best.

To their advantage- 4 valve heads and the location of the stator is good. Unless you don't need to change the stator, then it's an extra step to chrome the inner primary. Maybe it's a draw there.

[hd06myway]

Yea, one thing I've never understood is why Harley hasn't gone to 4 valve heads.  The motors would run cooler and have more power, and it's not a major redesign, and wouldn't impact the look at all...

[Ultrashovel]

Yea, one thing I've never understood is why Harley hasn't gone to 4 valve heads.  The motors would run cooler and have more power, and it's not a major redesign, and wouldn't impact the look at all...

Easy answer - in order to take advantage of 4 valve cylinder heads, the designer needs to be able to add:

1. Dual overhead camshafts.
2. Liquid cooling for the higher rpms.
3. Shorter stroke, larger bore to get rpms up to an area where the 4 valves can do some good.
4. Probably numerous other changes to be able to drive the cams.
5. Get an entire new family of customers who are "new school" as opposed to "old school".

The typical Harley spends the greater part of its life below 4,000 rpm. With that short rpm range, there's little advantage to 4 valves. Foreign bikes use multiple small valves to great advantage but they are running three times the rpms of our beloved Harley-Davidsons.

JMO.

[HogMike]

Yea, one thing I've never understood is why Harley hasn't gone to 4 valve heads.  The motors would run cooler and have more power, and it's not a major redesign, and wouldn't impact the look at all...

you mean like a "V-Rod"? Get ready for a new touring bike in the near future!

[Ultrashovel]

Yea, one thing I've never understood is why Harley hasn't gone to 4 valve heads.  The motors would run cooler and have more power, and it's not a major redesign, and wouldn't impact the look at all...

you mean like a "V-Rod"? Get ready for a new touring bike in the near future!

Be careful what you wish for.......The V-Rod is a lovely bike and very well built. The problem is that it doesn't fit the demographic of the typical grizzled old school Harley biker. To say that sales of the V-Rod were disappointing to HD management would be an understatement.

For Harley to build a large liquid-cooled touring bike would take away some of the uniqueness that Harleys possess. It would also put the MoCo into a different sales market completely. This is a risky move.

I'm not saying that they won't or shouldn't do something like this. It's just that it's risky.

[Tsani]

 
HD would need to come out with a whole new model line. Just think of the posibilties. Then the metric crowd can cry that HD is trying to copy them!

[Ultrashovel]

HD would need to come out with a whole new model line. Just think of the posibilties. Then the metric crowd can cry that HD is trying to copy them!

That's right and they would be right. The factors that go into sport bikes and cruisers from the Big four and Ducati, Aprilia, etc, are well known. There's really nothing new under the sun so HD might be guilty of some usage of those elements (overhead cams, multiple valves, short stroke, single-sided swing arms, the list goes on)

[Tsani]

Lets not forget the Revolution motor:
Liquid-cooled, 1130cc, 115 horsepower. The Revolution engine's basic configuration is a 60° V-Twin with dual overhead cams and four-valve heads. It's a high-revving design, with a 9000 rpm redline

[Ultrashovel]

Lets not forget the Revolution motor:
Liquid-cooled, 1130cc, 115 horsepower. The Revolution engine's basic configuration is a 60° V-Twin with dual overhead cams and four-valve heads. It's a high-revving design, with a 9000 rpm redline

Nice. I'm still not buying one.