Max - Waiting for TW5-6 Ride / Dyno Commentary

[Admiral Akbar]

While I may sneak up that way, that section picture you posted was way too straight for me.. I don't need low end tq..

I need low end TQ, mid range TQ and high end tq (HP)..  I like the flat power band not one where my helmet whacks the edge of the windshild when the motor hits 4K.. And not one that has too much positive or negative torque slope but a little bit of a hump is OK..

The 570 was OK on the mid but it couldn't pull a spoon out of a pudding bowl below 2400.. Too much exhaust duration.. Over exhausting.. The 5 just feel better.. 

BTW, I figured to humor Red.. I'd probably do a 10.5 to 1 cr and a 54..TR590, DM590 or TW55  I like my compression..
Max

[PanHeadRed]

>it couldn't pull .......below 2400<



Can we get the sermon about down shifting, lugging, rowing the gear box, more then one gear, I ain't scared,...etc?

[05FLHTC]

The 5 just feel better.. 

BTW, I figured to humor Red.. I'd probably do a 10.5 to 1 cr and a 54..TR590, DM590 or TW55  I like my compression..
Max

In the end I will predict based on my experience playing the cam game that feel idle & exhaust note is about the only things that the avg rider will be able to tell.

This why I have issues with the variation in the cam prices & more so the folks that try to justify them. They ALL open & close em. Most riders that are starting out want the idle lope & race sound. The small differences won't add up to a hill of beans...unless you move the CCP like you have here or ride it on a dyno everyday. 

[Admiral Akbar]

>it couldn't pull .......below 2400<

Can we get the sermon about down shifting, lugging, rowing the gear box, more then one gear, I ain't scared,...etc?

Is 1/8 to 1/4 throttle at 2200 lugging the motor?

In the end I will predict based on my experience playing the cam game that feel idle & exhaust note is about the only things that the avg rider will be able to tell.

Could be.. Especially it you are comparing the w555 to the 54.. I will say that the 570 was where I didn't want to be and it may or may not show up on the dyno.. I don't have any problem puttin' along at 2K (lower speeds / less load) or hitting the limiter on this bike.. I do both.. Sometimes I want to go fast and sometimes slow.

While cam price can might raise some distaste in some, I like done have any problem using them as a tool to get what I want.. If you don't want to ever worry about changing cams, go with a known build..  I still ride the 02 RK and for me the H290 worked a bunch better than the W8.  Heck I change cams more often than Mayor changes underwear..

Max

[mayor]

 

[02roadcling]

Pull his leg a little, next time don't wear any. 

[Admiral Akbar]

I think I'm gonna puke..

The dyno results were interesting..

Max

[HogBag]

Max
Sounds like the S&S 570 got better numbers than the 5-6 cams 

[Hog Dog]

I think I'm gonna puke..

The dyno results were interesting..

Max

[mayor]

Max
Sounds like the S&S 570 got better numbers than the 5-6 cams 

if you base that on the majority of the dyno run, yes....but it sounded like Max was looking for something a little different when he wrote this:

"The 570 was OK on the mid but it couldn't pull a spoon out of a pudding bowl below 2400.. Too much exhaust duration.. Over exhausting.. The 5 just feel better.. " -Max 

[Admiral Akbar]

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,33713.0.html

Reply #39

Max

[wfolarry]

While I may sneak up that way, that section picture you posted was way too straight for me.. I don't need low end tq..

I need low end TQ, mid range TQ and high end tq (HP)..  I like the flat power band not one where my helmet whacks the edge of the windshild when the motor hits 4K.. And not one that has too much positive or negative torque slope but a little bit of a hump is OK..

The 570 was OK on the mid but it couldn't pull a spoon out of a pudding bowl below 2400.. Too much exhaust duration.. Over exhausting.. The 5 just feel better.. 

BTW, I figured to humor Red.. I'd probably do a 10.5 to 1 cr and a 54..TR590, DM590 or TW55  I like my compression..
Max

Try that 570 at 10.5 & it will feel like a different cam.

[mayor]

The dyno results were interesting..

I agree, very interesting.  Despite the duration differences, they were with-in the margin of error to being identical from 2.7k to 5k. 

[biggzed]

BTW, I figured to humor Red.. I'd probably do a 10.5 to 1 cr and a 54..TR590, DM590 or TW55  I like my compression..
Max

Want to add a set of HQ575's to that mix? Got a set for sale in the swap meet section. '07 up chain drive. 

Zach

[Admiral Akbar]

They are pretty much the same as 570 with a slightly different LSA.. No need to test.. Maybe something between the 570 and the W5 would be interesting..

Max

[biggzed]

They are pretty much the same as 570 with a slightly different LSA.. No need to test.. Maybe something between the 570 and the W5 would be interesting..

Max

Fair enough. I thought maybe the lower exhaust lift on the HQ575's made them different enough than the other cams you mentioned. No worries.

Zach

[Admiral Akbar]

Zach, You bring up a good point but I think that the flow would not be effected too much.. These heads only pick up 3-4 cfm on the exhaust going from 500 to 600 lift.. Still the right direction but when you factor in the 0.040 difference in the lift  ( not 0.1) it is even less.

Max

[Deye76]

"Try that 570 at 10.5 & it will feel like a different cam."

or try it with good heads and a good tune, it'll feel like a different cam.

[Admiral Akbar]

"Try that 570 at 10.5 & it will feel like a different cam."

or try it with good heads and a good tune, it'll feel like a different cam.

As far as the cam goes I saw your run.. If that was a good run..

Personally,, I'm thinking they need groves..
Max

[Deye76]

Wasn't my run, but it was only 88" @ 9:1, imagine it @ 103" and 10:1.
The heads on that 88" and the .570 cams have made 115hp/tq on a couple 95" ers.

[Admiral Akbar]

It would be better.. That what it was..

[Nexus9]

The dyno results were interesting..

I agree, very interesting.  Despite the duration differences, they were with-in the margin of error to being identical from 2.7k to 5k.

I agree... if that dyno chart was the same motor with the TW5-6 and the 570 plotted out on it, it really underscores what we all need to keep in mind while we study these dyno sheets - all they are showing us is WOT in 5th (and how much time are we spending at WOT in 5th...?) (okay, nevermind, don't answer that.)    Max, you seem to be indicating that the Wood felt a lot stronger in normal driving?

[Admiral Akbar]

Max, you seem to be indicating that the Wood felt a lot stronger in normal driving?

Not really but if you let the Rs drop below 2400 you could feel a pretty dramatic difference between the 2.. Look at the TQ on the olive colored run it seems to hold up better at say 2300..  Other than that the 2 felt pretty much the same..



Max

[Deye76]

"FWIW,

This W5-6 is much better then that 570"
"it seems to hold up better at say 2300..  Other than that the 2 felt pretty much the same.."

I'm confused

[Admiral Akbar]

"FWIW,

This W5-6 is much better then that 570"
"it seems to hold up better at say 2300..  Other than that the 2 felt pretty much the same.."

I'm confused

Why?

Max