Wet/dry clutch?

[BluHarley]

My book says to fill my primary with fluid up to the bottom of the inspection window.  the shop told me I only needed a quarter of a quart to oil the chain.  A friend told me it is a wet/dry system.  I burned up one set of steel plates already.  I put new plates in, and the squeal with a quarter of a quart.  If I stuff it with oil, it gets quieter.  So what's the deal?  Is the fluid just to oil the chain?  And is something else causing my primary to squeal like a stuck pig?  Thanks.

[BKACHE]

In my '96 fxd, the oil should come up to and cover the bottom of the chain/clutch pack. Approx 24 oz.
The reason to have fluid is less for lubrication and more for heat disapation.
I would think you have something else going on.

[BKACHE]

When I said cover, cover the chain only of the clutch pack.

Does it make noise when engaged or just when disengaged?
Take the cover off, start it and have a listen to see where the noise is. Get the rear tire off and put in gear and try to track down the noise.   

[BluHarley]

I took the cover off once, and got a shower!  Anyway, the noise varies when I engage/disengage, shift gears, anything I do.  Usually when I stop, it will stop, but not all the time.  I don't hear it at 50mph!  I guess I just have to go like hell and turn up the stereo.  The shop told me my cases were good when they rebuilt the bottom end.  Since then, they have told me they may be bad.  I've put less than 2000 miles on it since that rebuild.  They did the top end too not long ago.  So I'm wondering if that race on the left side of the engine is spinning in the case.  I don't seem to be getting excessive oil leaking from that area.  There really isn't much oil leaking from anywhere, at the moment.  If I put a brand new motor in this thing, I'd still have f-ing problems.  My first 30k on it was a dream, now it's a nightmare, one thing after another. 

[turboprop]

Regardless of how much fluid is in the primary, it should not squeal. Not even dry. There is something else going on in there. Don't let this get you sucked into a this type of oil or that type of oil. Regardless, it should not squeal. Look at the bearings in the inner primary and clutch basket.

[BluHarley]

Thanks.  So what's to stop me from taking the primary cover right off and running it up on a lift?  As long as the chain is oiled.  That way I might be able to figure where that noise is coming from.  As it is, as with any noise, it travels, sometimes sounds like front, sometimes back, sometimes out my a##, sometimes everywhere at the same time.  I've tried to run it with the Derby cover off, or the inspection window off with fluid in there.  That's a very oily experience, and I couldn't narrow it down any because I was too busy shutting it off. 

[turboprop]

Nothing will prevent you from running the bike with the primary cover off. It may get messy with the cling-on oil flying all over the place. After pulling the cover you might want to spray everything with brake cleaner to get the residual oil off the moving parts prior to lighting it up. I am interested in learning what you discover.

[chadlyp]

Are you absolutely certain that the noise is coming from the primary? I ask because whenever the motor is running (no matter what clutch position, or bike moving or not) the engine, comp sprocket, chain, outer clutch hub (including bearing between inner and outer clutch hub) and friction plates are always moving... you said that it often goes away when you stop, so that tells me that most likely none of those parts mentioned are at fault... it sounds to me like it's most likely a transmission bearing (maybe main or 5th gear since noise sounds close to primary) or maybe the inner primary housing to transmission mainshaft bearing and/or mainshaft race.... especially is the pitch of the sound varies with bike speed, gear changes and clutch actuation but does not coincide with engine speed... also like to note that fluid level should be up to the bottom of the clutch spring when bike is upright and level.... it is good for cooling, but it's main function is to lube the chain.... the chain will definitely fail after too many miles without the property fluid level, the fluid is not really necessary for the clutch to operate (not even to keep it cool)... all of this is why you can run a dry primary as long as it's belt drive and vented

[chadlyp]

Sorry for some wrong words showing up (ie. property instead of proper)... damn android phone and it's text prediction!

[BKACHE]

Sorry for not being clear. Put it up on a lift.
Drain the oil - start it and take the entire primary cover off.
It should not make noise and should be diagnosable. (is diagnosable a word?)

[BluHarley]

My girlfriend said it's a whistle.  I'm always thinking it's armageddon, so maybe her objectivity can be helpful.  I was thinking the same thing, if it was the cases or bearings, it would do it all the time.  Air would change with temperature (which it does.)  I'm slow at getting to it these days, but I'll keep you posted.  I would like to move to a belt drive some day and just be rid of that primary chain nonsense.  It's not that expensive, but everything is expensive these days!

[Grayrider]

Usually a squeal will indicate a bearing, bushing or shaft seizing up. It is high pitch and will also usually increase or decrease with RPM or movement.
Your girlfriend says it sounds like a whistle. That could be a vacuum or seal leak. This could also be reflective of with RPM and a recent motor rebuild.
You should fill the primary to the bottom of the clutch basket. Running the bike with open primary will be pretty messy. [as you are aware.]
A mechanics stethoscope might narrow it down to a general area. But, as mentioned, sound travels.
You need to have a few knowledgeable ears listen and advise.
Preferable not the guys that did the rebuild. Sounds like they aren't too sure!

[BluHarley]

Well...shucks.  The other day I filled the primary to the bottom of the inspection window, as per the shop manual (HD).  I rode around a little that day, and the squealing continued.  Today (after sitting a few days) I took it out and ran some errands, and not one peep out of it.  It's running as good as it ever did, and no adverse noises.  It's been a long time since that happened.  So I'm figuring one of two things.  The steel plates I took out were cupped rather badly, and the new ones I put in had been around a while and had some rust.  The old ones went away, and now my new ones are polished up enough to stop the noise.  OR, a bearing somewhere between the primary and the tranny is bad, and it now has enough lubrication to quiet it.  Either way, I'm a happy camper, for today.  Tomorrow is another day.

[chadlyp]

Well...shucks.  The other day I filled the primary to the bottom of the inspection window, as per the shop manual (HD).  I rode around a little that day, and the squealing continued.  Today (after sitting a few days) I took it out and ran some errands, and not one peep out of it.  It's running as good as it ever did, and no adverse noises.  It's been a long time since that happened.  So I'm figuring one of two things.  The steel plates I took out were cupped rather badly, and the new ones I put in had been around a while and had some rust.  The old ones went away, and now my new ones are polished up enough to stop the noise.  OR, a bearing somewhere between the primary and the tranny is bad, and it now has enough lubrication to quiet it.  Either way, I'm a happy camper, for today.  Tomorrow is another day.

you never mentioned what year/model you're speaking of, i checked back through my library of service manuals (for sale by the way in case anybody is interested  --  <a href="http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,35549.0.html">click here</a>) and was surprised to see that before 1991 it does say fill to the bottom of the inspection window... all newer evo's and t/c's say fill to the bottom of the diaphragm spring... anyways i assume that you're speaking of the 1988 FLTC in your profile info, so please do ignore that part of my previous reply

[BluHarley]

Yep!  That's the one.  I guess I'll just have to keep it chuck full of oil, and she'll be quiet!  That's an interesting note about the fluid level on '91 and later.  I wonder what the difference would be?