putting new AGM battery in service

[hotstick79]

just wondering if it is better to charge on the battery for a while before installing or not.If it is better would it be better to use a battery tender or a regular battery charger on the 2 amp setting.

                                                                                     Thanks in advance

                                                                                                   Hotstick

[Evo160K]

Hotstick79,

Absolutely slow charge a battery to full charge before putting it into service.  Once you start a battery the first time, it will take a set at that charge and never go above it. You can ruin a voltage regulator trying to charge it.  That's courtesy of Dennis Pinte (may he rest in peace), former product manager of Yuasa Battery.  I charge at least over night or longer.

[Ed Y]

hotstick,

Put the Battery Tender on it until it's fully charged then install.

[Admiral Akbar]

Batteries come with a sheet telling you how to charge it based on unloaded output voltage in different ways.. use what you got to do what you need to do based on the voltage..

Max

[Reddog74usa]

When I worked at the dealer the policy was to charge the battery on a new bike prep at 2 amps over night. I have been doing it that way with new batteries ever since and they last a long time.

[Admiral Akbar]

Years ago.. When I worked in a bike shop we used to tell the customer to come back in about 4 hours to allow for charging when servicing new batteries.. Unless they really needed it and were using the bike as a commuter.. We would charge the battery during that time.. It really cut back on the comebacks.. Some guys would buy the battery. Install it, then complain about 2 weeks later when they went to use the bike..  ..

Max

[truck]

The AGM batteries don't play by the same rules as the flooded batteries.

http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0139.pdf

[chadlyp]

Years ago.. When I worked in a bike shop we used to tell the customer to come back in about 4 hours to allow for charging when servicing new batteries.. Unless they really needed it and were using the bike as a commuter.. We would charge the battery during that time.. It really cut back on the comebacks.. Some guys would buy the battery. Install it, then complain about 2 weeks later when they went to use the bike..  ..

Max

we did it a little different at a independent that i worked for, we had the 10-bank tender and kept 2x20s, 4x20Ls, 2x24Ls & 2x30Ls on it at all times and replaced them as they sold... and we always let the customer know that it was ready to go... worked very well

@hotstick - the best way to know what the battery needs is to ask it, a quality digital volt meter (multimeter) will do the batt-speak to english translation 12.6-12.8vdc is a full charge, lower than that and it needs charging... as far as what kind of charger to use, you can't go wrong with a tender if you have it... they charge at 2-2.5amps, monitor voltage and stop charging when it's done (actually it switches to a float charge, but that's off topic)... but if all you have is a standard charger w/ a 2amp setting, they are fine to use as long as you and your volt meter are standing over it's shoulder, the "charge the battery for a while" method is not a good one on that, gotta watch it

here is more than you ever wanted to know about batteries -----> http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechManual_2009.pdf

[Thumper Buttercup]

I got my training on the Batterys for specal weapons in the AF, and took it from there.


I've always started a new battery the same way, no matter if for a car, truck, generator, tractor
motorcycle.....

On a wood bench and put it on a automatic trickle charger, Battery Tender, Schumacher they are all good.

If you don't have a good wood Bench put the battery and the charger on a piece of wood at least 2' off
the ground, never set it on cement or gravel.  If you ever pull a battery out store it the same way, on
the wood shelf on a battery charger.

Now for smaller battery's I try to get 4-5 days uninterrupted charging.

For my diesels I like to get 7 days, I know that is not practical but plan it out and try it.

Now every vehicle we own that has a battery has a wiring harness installed for a automatic battery charger,
every time a vehicle is parked they are put on a charger.  All my battery's are cleaned in the spring and the
fall.  Now here is the surprise, with your keeping the battery's charged you will find they are not using water
like they were, on the odd occasion that I have to top off a battery only used distilled water.  With the
newer battery's I've not had to add water in the last years since I traded in the 1066 two years ago.

When you are cleaning a battery I like to use WD-40, it helps neutralize the acid, also make sure you wipe it
totally dry or you can create a short on that battery between the posts.

I hope this helps. 

Now before you get in a up roar, this is the results.

IH 1066, two 6v battery's (large) connected to make 12 volts, 15 years of service and still going when
I sold the tractor.

06 Duramax, original battery's still going strong from new (wired in a on-board charger)

02 TJ Jeep did not own this from day one, got it off a car lot, changed to new battery in 04
still going strong.

10,000 emergency generator, new in 1997, still running on original battery

04 Harley Ultra, I put a battery in her in 2009 just because of a long trip and did not want
problems down the road and wanted to setup the new one my way.

Swisher trail mower (has the old Harley Battery in her still going strong)

1994 Suburban diesel, got her new traded her in in 05 with the original battery's.

1984 Blazer full size diesel (got her new), traded her in on the Jeep in 03, still was running
on the original battery's.

Now all the vehicles never had a charging problem, the 1066 did and I fixed it when it got the
new batteries.  Also every two years I go over every ground wire and clean them at their
base attachment point and clean their grommets also.  This will help your vehicles charging
system and prolong the life of your alternators and generators.


Now on my Jeep, the battery that I got I've not been happy with last fall and I am working
on it with this "BatteryMINDer Charger/Maintainer/Desulphator â€" 1.3", I got it at Northern Tool
and so far it feels like the battery is behaving better.  Time will tell on that one.

If you live anywhere near a shop that builds batteries and want a battery that will last forever
tell them to make you a deep discharge battery (like used on trolling motors) but have him
put the connectors on it that you need.  Charge it up for a week and keep her on a charger when
not in use.  You should never need one again.


*****Danger*****

Now you are on a trip and no battery's to be had anywhere, but you can get to a 10 amp charger, and
some battery acid, put a tsp of lye in each cell, put the battery on a charger at 10 amp or higher and get
her to bubble.  Dump the acid and rinse her out and then fill with new acid and charge for as long as you
can allow.  Be careful you can blow a battery or have a fire but it will get you going in a bind.

[truck]

There is no need to keep the batteries off of concrete unless it's a hard rubber case which is porous and can 'leak' electricity. The plastic battery cases can't do that so no need to keep them off the floor.
I got that info from an engineer at the battery company I used to work at.

[calif phil]

There is no need to keep the batteries off of concrete unless it's a hard rubber case which is porous and can 'leak' electricity. The plastic battery cases can't do that so no need to keep them off the floor.
I got that info from an engineer at the battery company I used to work at.

Exactly!   That old wives tale came from the 50's.  I think battery technology has improved somewhat since then.

[Paniolo]

So if I understand, AGM batteries do NOT need to be charged before install, correct?

[truck]

The AGM's have a very long shelf life before a charge is needed. I think one year, but I'm not sure. CRAFT

[Thumper Buttercup]

You guys do know that a battery case can pass voltage, I've seen it, that is why no
concrete or gravel for me, they will have moisture that will help the battery discharge.

Hey I'm not going to argue, take it for what's it worth guys, up here you should see
the battery's these farmers go through.  Have a good one.

[adayrider]

Can you not over charge a battery? If you put a battery on a charger for 7 days would it not over charged? Or is over charging from charging at to high of an amp? As is using a booster of 200 amps instead of 2 amps?

Anyone ever herd of putting an aspirin in each hole of a flooded battery will dissolve or desolvate maybe it is, the crusties that weld the plates together.

[Coyote]

I think it's a lot of worrying about nothing. Put the battery in the bike and go. Most of the rest is old wives tales.




14. WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST MYTHS ABOUT BATTERIES?
14.1. Storing a battery on a concrete floor will discharge them.

A hundred years ago when battery cases were made of porous materials such as tar-lined wood boxes, so storing batteries on concrete floor would accelerate their discharge. Modern battery cases are made of polypropylene or hard rubber. These cases seal better, so external leakage-causing discharge is no longer a problem, provided the top of the battery is clean. Temperature stratification within very large batteries could accelerate their internal “leakage” or self-discharge if the battery is sitting on an extremely cold floor in a warm room or is installed in a submarine.

[Paniolo]

I think it's a lot of worrying about nothing. Put the battery in the bike and go.

Well that's what I did.

My old battery died after years of faithful service. I bought a replacement, the Deka AGM battery and installed it right out of the box. The bike fired right up and I took it for a ride. Then I came home and parked it for a week WITHOUT hooking it up to the tender, I figured that it was NEW, an AGM Deka, it should NOT need to be on a tender. Well a week later the battery was dead. I thought I had a drain (I posted that thread and watched it turn into the usual here). So I hooked it to the tender and a day or two later it was fine. I was unable to find the drain on my own so I took the bike to a shop. They could NOT find a drain, and suggested that I should have charged my NEW Deka AGM battery before installing it in the bike. The guy said he has seen that before regardless if it's an AGM, HD, Deka or any other type of battery.

Which is why I asked if even the NEW Deka batteries should be charged first.

[Thumper Buttercup]

Can you not over charge a battery? If you put a battery on a charger for 7 days would it not over charged? Or is over charging from charging at to high of an amp? As is using a booster of 200 amps instead of 2 amps?

Anyone ever herd of putting an aspirin in each hole of a flooded battery will dissolve or desolvate maybe it is, the crusties that weld the plates together.

If you use a quality 2.0 amp or 1.5 amp Automatic you will be fine, you will find that with regular use of chargers on your vehicle, your vehicle will not be playing catchup on recharging your battery and over charging it and that is where you get acid loss and the mess in your battery compartment.  Your vehicle will not stop charging where a automatic charger does and that automatic charger will stop before your battery starts gassing.

[truck]

I think it's a lot of worrying about nothing. Put the battery in the bike and go.

Well that's what I did.

My old battery died after years of faithful service. I bought a replacement, the Deka AGM battery and installed it right out of the box. The bike fired right up and I took it for a ride. Then I came home and parked it for a week WITHOUT hooking it up to the tender, I figured that it was NEW, an AGM Deka, it should NOT need to be on a tender. Well a week later the battery was dead. I thought I had a drain (I posted that thread and watched it turn into the usual here). So I hooked it to the tender and a day or two later it was fine. I was unable to find the drain on my own so I took the bike to a shop. They could NOT find a drain, and suggested that I should have charged my NEW Deka AGM battery before installing it in the bike. The guy said he has seen that before regardless if it's an AGM, HD, Deka or any other type of battery.

Which is why I asked if even the NEW Deka batteries should be charged first.

That right there says the battery was good to go right out of the box. What happened between the time you installed it and the bike fired right up, then you took a ride and parked the bike right after the ride for a week, that's the mystery. too short a ride with all the lights on?

[JBarrettB]

So if I understand, AGM batteries do NOT need to be charged before install, correct?

Incorrect, that is if you want a long service life from the battery.

Hotstick79,

Absolutely slow charge a battery to full charge before putting it into service.  Once you start a battery the first time, it will take a set at that charge and never go above it. You can ruin a voltage regulator trying to charge it.  That's courtesy of Dennis Pinte (may he rest in peace), former product manager of Yuasa Battery.  I charge at least over night or longer.

I believe this is true also.

The Tender Plus was developed to correctly/fully charge an AGM battery prior to going into service. Some other charging methods will cause the battery to rise in temperature shutting the charger down prematurely.

JB 

[truck]

So if I understand, AGM batteries do NOT need to be charged before install, correct?

Incorrect, that is if you want a long service life from the battery.

Hotstick79,

Absolutely slow charge a battery to full charge before putting it into service.  Once you start a battery the first time, it will take a set at that charge and never go above it. You can ruin a voltage regulator trying to charge it.  That's courtesy of Dennis Pinte (may he rest in peace), former product manager of Yuasa Battery.  I charge at least over night or longer.

I believe this is true also.

The Tender Plus was developed to correctly/fully charge an AGM battery prior to going into service. Some other charging methods will cause the battery to rise in temperature shutting the charger down prematurely.

JB

Someone needs to read the tech manual.
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0139.pdf

[JBarrettB]

Irregardless, I'll continue to charge AGM batteries and put them into service only after the surface charge has dissipated.
I will continue to recommend that you all do the same in order to get maximum life from the battery as well as the motorcycles charging system.

JB   

[poseidon9447]

The last two AGM batteries I installed came with a paper that said ready to use, but also that they were only charged 75% at factory so recommended to fully charge before use. I guess the other 25% is for your regulator or alternator to charge as you use it to get to 100%. Before those two I had a drag specialty battery that came with a chart for how long to charge before first use based on manufacture/current date.
I think AGM batteries are ready to use off the shelf but I dont see anything wrong with charging them to 100% when new either. This time around I have a xtreme charger that I am keeping the bike hooked to when not riding. Nothing worse then wanting to ride, getting ready and going out to the garage to find a dead battery.

[Paniolo]

The last two AGM batteries I installed came with a paper that said ready to use, but also that they were only charged 75% at factory so recommended to fully charge before use.

And that's the position the shop tech who could not find a drain took. He said my new one had enough juice to start it up and run around the block, but parked for the week untended the alarm and radio memory probably ran it down the rest of the way.

[rel3rd]

Someone needs to read the tech manual.
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0139.pdf

Way, way too much reading there for me...
What I can share is that my brand new Deka AGM battery came with a small "instruction sheet" in the box that clearly said to "fully charge battery before use". I use a Battery Tender Plus, which works very well, and in less than 30 minutes the Tender light was green, which means that the battery was fully charged. This is no different than what happens after a nice ride, so I'd have to say that even though the manufacturer recommended charging the battery, it was (in this case) very close to being there already. FWIW, the stamped in manufacture date was within a month of when I bought and installed it, which surely had at least a little to do with it..

Regardless, ANY battery (over time) will slowly lose voltage just sitting, un-connected, on a shelf. My shop literally goes through hundreds of batteries a year for various types of vehicles, machinery, and equipment, and quite often the few slow moving types that we do have, go dead just sitting on a shelf.

It's a no-brainer as to whether to charge it up before use in my opinion. Overnight is more than adequate and I plug mine in (to Battery Tender) whenever the bike is parked, which works pretty well since the old battery made it for 8 years before I replaced it with this AGM battery and it still has enough cranking amps to fire up my buddy's lawn tractor easily.

Besides, you can't possibly hurt it by making sure it's fully charged, so why would you choose not to???

[Evo160K]

Truck,

Where in that Deka literature does it suggest charging before installation is not necessary?

Thanks

[chadlyp]

Can you not over charge a battery? If you put a battery on a charger for 7 days would it not over charged? Or is over charging from charging at to high of an amp? As is using a booster of 200 amps instead of 2 amps?

Anyone ever herd of putting an aspirin in each hole of a flooded battery will dissolve or desolvate maybe it is, the crusties that weld the plates together.

If you use a quality 2.0 amp or 1.5 amp Automatic you will be fine, you will find that with regular use of chargers on your vehicle, your vehicle will not be playing catchup on recharging your battery and over charging it and that is where you get acid loss and the mess in your battery compartment.  Your vehicle will not stop charging where a automatic charger does and that automatic charger will stop before your battery starts gassing.

so i don't know if your farm tractors are using a voltage regulator in their charging system, and if those tractors have qualty AGM batteries available to them... but here in the 21st century, our HDs have both

[truck]

Truck,

Where in that Deka literature does it suggest charging before installation is not necessary?

Thanks

You got me there. Must have been in one of the propaganda classes they gave us every month.
I remember reading/hearing that they have a one year shelf life (from the shipping date) during which time they are good to go.
No harm in a charge before use, but probably not necessary?

[-deuced-]

http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0139.pdf

Good link. Thanks for posting.
As for charging a new battery before installation, use a volt meter. If it's less than full charge then charge it up. Even when flat I only put a battery on the charger for a couple of hours, then rest it for an hour or two, then charge then rest etc until up to full charge. Lead-acid batteries have no memory effect. I wouldn't leave one on a charger overnight (or all day) as I'd be worried it would get too hot. Put your hand on the battery case while it's charging. They can get pretty warm.

[Ed Y]

http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0139.pdf

Good link. Thanks for posting.
As for charging a new battery before installation, use a volt meter. If it's less than full charge then charge it up. Even when flat I only put a battery on the charger for a couple of hours, then rest it for an hour or two, then charge then rest etc until up to full charge. Lead-acid batteries have no memory effect. I wouldn't leave one on a charger overnight (or all day) as I'd be worried it would get too hot. Put your hand on the battery case while it's charging. They can get pretty warm.

Big difference between using a charger and maintainer. Unless you clarify that, your statement is confusing. Maintainers are manufactured to be left connected to the battery indefinitely. Been that way for years.

[Paniolo]

After following this thread it seems I should have charged the new AGM Deka battery before install. While the "75% shelf charge" was enough to start it up and ride it around the block, it was not enough to sustain it with an alarm and radio drain for a week. Hopefully bringing it back to life with a few days on the tender is all it needed and no harm was done.

[-deuced-]

Sorry, didn't mean to be confusing. I was talking about a charger and not a maintainer. I was also talking about charging a completely disconnected battery. My battery charger is charge only. A common type suitable for most home users. It is basically a step down transformer and rectifier. It has a gauge on the face that shows charging current. The charging current decreases with time, but never down to zero. It is always charging when connected and the battery will get hot if left on. I cycle it to avoid this heat. It takes longer to charge but I feel it is kinder on the battery. It won't hurt the battery as a lead-acid battery has no memory effect, unlike a nickel-cadmium battery as used in battery powered tools but that's a different story.
Maintainers are trickle chargers or float chargers that are supposedly meant to be permanently connected to an installed battery. They are always charging when connected, albeit at low current. They may reduce charging voltage in an attempt to lessen heat in the battery but there is always some current flowing into the battery and I just don't like that idea, even if that trickle current is designed to match the slight constant draw on an installed battery.
A fully automatic charger will turn itself on and off as required but these are usually high dollar items.
If I was storing the bike for an extended period like winter I'd disconnect the battery and charge it before reinstallation. I don't use a maintainer or a tender and I got 8 years out of the original battery. I did have to charge it up a couple of times. If I'd ridden the bike more frequently I doubt that would've been necessary. I replaced it with another HD battery about 18 months ago. So far so good.
I installed a new aftermarket battery in a friends bike last week that he supplied. It was supposed to be fully charged and ready to go. It measured at 12.7 volts (about 90%) out of the box and I wanted to stick it on the charger for an hour or so. I was bombarded with ridicule and impatience so I installed it as is. Bike fired right up. He rode it around the block, literally, and has not ridden it since. I'm expecting complaints. There's more to this story, it's his third battery that I know of in 3 years, but I just wanted to show that you might not need 100% charge to start a stock bike but I think it would've been better.

[wingie]

About the aspirin in the old batteries. I can't remember what it was but we added something,about a teaspoon full,in each cell. I just can't remember what it was that brought old nearly dead batteries to life. I'm not sure but I think it was rock salt. Any one have such memories.  wingie

[FSG]

......  I'm not sure but I think it was rock salt. Any one have such memories.

None about salt or aspirin but we did hit them with a big welder and often drove in 6" Nails so as to be able to get 6V for older equipment.  During my time in the services I saw a battery top that was embedded in the ceiling of a battery handling room, it was deliberately left there as a warning to all, battery's gas which can explode if a naked flame is introduced to the equation.  Someone in the past had used a naked flame for a light source when checking that battery's electrolyte level. 

[harleyjt]

......  I'm not sure but I think it was rock salt. Any one have such memories.

None about salt or aspirin but we did hit them with a big welder and often drove in 6" Nails so as to be able to get 6V for older equipment.  During my time in the services I saw a battery top that was embedded in the ceiling of a battery handling room, it was deliberately left there as a warning to all, battery's gas which can explode if a naked flame is introduced to the equation.  Someone in the past had used a naked flame for a light source when checking that battery's electrolyte level. 

Really nasty when one of those things goes boom!  Acid everywhere.  Had one do that on a friend one day.  I was about 20 ft away in another stall when it happened.   Got in his eyes - really nasty stuff.  I don't want to be around another one.
jt

[truck]

One of the lines was labeling 8G8D (very large bus batteries, about 165#) when one blew it's top. Won't ever forget that. Norm was dielectric testing the cover for leaks and he found one. Luckily no harm to anyone and since it was a gel battery no acid flew around.

[ORork]

http://www.braillebattery.com/index.php/batteries/b2015/

I ordered this directly from Braille a couple days ago. They tell me it's a drop-in for my 2004 FXD. Check out the SPECS on this baby.

I got 3 years from the original HD battery. It failed riding home from work on I-80 in July 2007, when the temperature was well over 100°F, the bike spit bad and died and could not start or get any dash lights at all, an $80.00 tow of less than 4 miles. Replaced it with another HD that has July 2007 to date on it. The second one has been on a tender all of it's life and it may suffice, but it did fail to start lately with very cold temps outside, below 45°F. It will start the bike fine at around 50°F but I'm not going to chance it this season. I believe the HD battery is rated at 270 and this Braille is 574CA and 426CCA. I'm running compression releases, travel limiters, All Balls starter clutch on the OE starter and Yooper cables.

When the Braille arrives I'll put it on the tender until the green light is solid and then install. I'm thinking of using studs, multi-serrated electrical washers and blue loctite on the it. This will be my first experience with a Braille. Ever since I got burned buying a Sony HD flat screen TV on the name alone and having it fail tragically at 20 months, now I research every purchase. The info on the Braille product has been very positive and I hope for the best.

Braille offers a Lithium/Ion one for $1,500.00........