Bagger Cam - Crane HTC-300-2

[Bagger]

For those that have been interested in bagger builds with cams like the TW21 and TW26, here's a very good alternative.  This cam combines cam characteristics of both the TW21 and TW26 - sort of like having your peanut butter and chocolate together in a Reeses Peanut Butter Cup.

Guys running running the (Crane HTC 300-2 - 2001-2006 Bikes) -  (1-6000 for 07 newer bikes) let's us know your opinions?

Info copied from another thread:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/Live2Ride/messages?msg=24782.1
http://forums.about.com/Live2Ride/messages?msg=22606.88

Crane HTC-300-2 (06 & earlier bikes) (1-6000 for 07 newer bikes)
Mild Street, Cruising, Touring. Bolt in cam, low-end torque and mid-range HP. Good for heavy bikes. Range: Idle to 5000 rpms.

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=newProduct&id=20

13 - Intake Open
33 - Intake Close
42 - Exhaust Open
14 - Exhaust Close
226 - Intake Duration
236 - Exhaust Duration
27 - Overlap
100 - Intake Lobe Center
104 - Exhaust Lobe Center
102 - Lobe Separation Angle
0.505 - Intake Lift
0.505 - Exhaust Lift

What makes the HTC-300-2  such a good bagger cam is that it has an early intake close of 33 degrees ABDC, tight lobe separation angle of 102 and 505" lift.

For more info on cam timing check out: http://forums.about.com/Live2Ride/messages?msg=22584.3

Here are a couple of comments from riders with personal experience with the Crane 300-2 cam.

From:    Syke Performance  - PanHeadRed   2/5/2007 1:04 pm

Baggerdad, it's lunch time and I was take'n a lap around and came upon this post, you know I am not the type to come into these forums and spam, but this thread is one I feel obligated to address.

I recieved the cams from Crane for test purposes a fews months back and felt obligated to put them in. I have been searching for something out of the ordinary for a new package with out going to a custom grind, or what are known as the designer cams. Andrews (IMO) dominates the HD cam market so I purposely stayed away from them. Although Andrews Products are excellent cams, I am looking to offer something a little bit different. I mentioned a while ago that we were working on a complete package hoping to address the noise issues as well as making good street power. The original target was to use the LSR Black Hole, or one of the queiter slip-on's.

Well, at the same time the cams arrived Samson sent a Caliber 2-1 exhaust. So feeling obligated to them as well I thought "might as well get er done". I installed a set of my heads, the Crane 300 cam, and the Samson Caliber 2-1, 95" flat pistons, Stage I A/C, and adjustable push rods. The rest of the engine components are stock, including the 40mm CV, and ignition. Static compression is 9.1, Corrected is 8.6, and cranking pressuer is 175, all very manageable for street use.

We still have not dynoed it with the Samson Caliber 2-1, and the carb is FAR from being tunned, nor is the road testing even started (it's 20 deg F). All I can say about my initial impression is:

!WOW! This thing is a MONSTER!   GREAT BAGGER CAM!

There is lots of potential for this set up, we are VERY excited about being able to offer a package with this much acceleration at such a low CR. The carb still pops and farts a lot because it is not jetted properly, so the bike is currently limited to a top speed of 112 MPH. I imagine with the right combination of jetting and exhaust we should be able to put it up a few more. The low end with this current combo will break the tire loose, and snap your head back with a hard twist of the throttle. We have several exhaust systems yet to be evaluated which include the RB Racing Black Hole, RB Racing LSR 2-1, V&H Slip-on's, Rinehart Duals, and a Super Trapp Super Meg 2-1. We will test more as they become available.

We are  considering having the cams ground in a gear version because the gear system seems to be very popular, currently we are trying to work out the number required to make them price competitive. (If anyone has considered this grind, but has balked because it's not available in gears, please send an email, we could use all the pre-orders we can get to help get the numbers up)

I have had 2 people besides my self ride this bike, they both came back with the same reply, "That's what I want". One of them was putting together a 10.5:1, 580 lift cam set up. Well..............not any more.

For anyone considering a Bagger cam, you owe it to your self to take a look at the Crane 300. The Samson Caliber seems to be a good compliment, but I am not sure yet how it will stack up against other exhaust systems, my first impression for both of these products in combination with each other is very positive. This is not my first experience with the Samson Caliber 2-1, I ran the previous version they sent with a S&S 570 10.0:1 build. The performance was very good. of Syke Performance is now running a Crane 300-2 in his Road King. He can order the Crane 300-2 in gear drive. Syke Performance has three of gear drive versions installed in customers bikes and all are extremely satisfied with the performance in their touring bike.

From: mbangelo Feb-15 1:49 pm

I have been running the 300-2 cams in my 04 rk with stock heads street ported 40mm cv - sporty needle 48 slow 200 main supper trapp 2-1 95 se flat tops, dtt,0 030 comectics , since oct. runs real strong from 2500 to 5500 from a stop you got areal hand full pulls like a freight train no problem cruising at 80-85 have not run in hot weather yet but dont expect problem. ( have surprised a few so called hot rods light to light i l0ve it especially when they see the gray hair) BUTCH
   
This guy "Walt" is running the Crane 1-6000 (for 07 bikes) which is the Crane 300-2 for 06 bikes and earlier.

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98777&highlight=Crane+6000

Just got done installing a Crane 6000 Feb 02, 2007 and rode 50 miles. No dyno but bike runs better than I could have imagined. While in there I installed the Baisley spring and as far as I can tell (and pressure ga indicates) this was a very good idea. Seems either cam or added oil pressure quieted down a lot of noise. Although you can hear the intermittant tap of the valves closing-intake and exhaust are open pretty far at TDC for a small cam- these cams are very quiet while running.

I also replaced the stock headpipes with V&H duals - hoping never again to screw with removing the stock system. These seem to work great with my Supertrapp megaphone slip-ons. I am running a Techlusion TFI fuel controller and see no reson to change with this build. Also a SE A/C with Zippers filter.

The only thing that got me off the bike was the temperature, the weather never went above 36 degree's. The bike pulls harder than anything I have ever ridden with barley cracking the throttle. Never got on the Highway but 45 to 85 pulls on the local backroads is a gas. The 6000 is the '07 version of the Crane 300-2 and very similar to the JM-20 that Joe Minton had built for him by Bartells. I was told Andrews would cut his original cam for a custom charge. They call it a TW-24.

I know the TW-26 is probably similar but I have been told that it is a little noisey at low rpm and wanted to try somethig different. With the limited drive time I can say that power just builds, cant wait to see what I can pull on the hwy. I love the torque this bike now has, exactly what I wanted.

2007 Ultra - 96"
Stock Heads
Stock Head Gasket
Crane HTC-300-2
.030 HG
Stock Headers w/Fuel Moto Slip Ons - http://fuelmotousa.com/rush_fuelmoto
6 Spd Transmission
Thunder Max - Base Map 392

AMS COMMENTS ABOUT HTC-300-2

I like several things about it over the TW26. ...especially the 33 deg intake closing... and the extra .015" lift as compared to the TW26 -could be interesting with a set of ported heads.

From: headbolt1     4/15/2007 8:46 am

Sorry not a member here but a long time lurker. I am also running the 300 cam, along with Syke heads. It is a great performer in a heavy bike. Currently running 108 torque and 96 HP, the torque is right where it needs to be. I am very happy with this setup and will probably keep it for a long time. I would definatly recommend this build to any with a big bike.

2005 Electraglide
Syke Performance Heads
.040" Cometic Head Gasket
Crane HTC-300-2 Cams
95" SE Cast HC Pistons
SE Stage I A/C
SERT
Rinehart True Duals

From: monkeydav2      4/16/2007 11:15 am

Got my bike back this weekend with the gear drive 300 cams, syke heads, and LSR2-1 pipes.  YEEEEEE HAAAWWWWW!!!

All I can say is my bike is dang fast. It isn't tuned yet so it may even get better. Frank put it up on the dyno during the break-in period and babied up to 3800 rpms just to check the air/fuel ratio. The bike was already pulling 98.5 ft-lbs and 71HP without even getting on the throttle hard!

2002 Road King
Syke Performance Heads
(86cc Combustion Chamber Size)
(AV&V Black Tulip Valves - 1.900" Intake / 1.570" Exhaust)
(AV&V Hi-Peformance Valve Springs & Guides)
.030" Cometic Head Gasket
KB 95" Flat Top Pistons
Cylinders bored by AMS
Crane HTC-300-2 Cams
SE A/C
RB Racing LSR 2-1
3.15 Final Gear Ratio
PCIIIr

[WVULTRA]

From:    Syke Performance  - PanHeadRed   2/5/2007 1:04 pm

Is this the same PanHeadRed that's a member here?  If so, should provide some good feedback!

[tireater]

How would it compare to my And. 37 build on my bagger...?

[PanHeadRed]

IMO 100/90 from a 95" @ 9.3:1 with a stock ignition and a stock carb is, (IMO) a great value in a Touring Bike, it may not make the fastest Racing Bike, nor print the most impressive Dyno Runs, but for a TM as a Daily Driver (IMO) it's tough to beat, it won't do it all, but it will do a lot. IMO, if you want a racing bike get a Dyna, IMO racing bikes are not meant to be ridden 2-up, or be loaded down with leathers and rain gear. You can pay more, do more, and get more, but sometimes the cost is more then the $ initially spent.

IMO there is a lot to be said about 100 TQ befor 3,000 rps vs. 100 HP at 5,000 + in a 4” stroke 95” T/C. But a decision like that is left up to the rider, and why, how, and what he rides.

As the saying goes, “Different Strokes”. Personally I like the "Baby" cams and low compression, they have their place.

YMMV.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[PanHeadRed]

IMO this is a related build.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Don D]

or be loaded down with leathers and rain gear


OR TRAILERS and camping gear

Amen Brother!

[dadawg]

in a 07 eglide with a 103  big bore what compression would work well with this cam ?

[hogandtow]

just got my 6001 300-2 crane cams in today for my 09 heritage. I also am installing 0.30 cometic head gaskets depending on how far pistons are down in the hole i should have 9.4 to 9.5 com presion corrected should be 8.9 to1. will be installing tomorrow the weather here is suppose to be 48 on Saturday perfect for a ride. i have installed these cams before with 9.1 cam presion and was very happy. i vacation in the smokies every year and love the way they power out of the corners you get great response with small throttle input.

[mayor]

in a 07 eglide with a 103  big bore what compression would work well with this cam ?

compression will be pretty high with flat tops in a 103".  IMO you should run dish pistons if you want to run this cam in a 103". 

[PanHeadRed]

in a 07 eglide with a 103  big bore what compression would work well with this cam ?

IMO 8.8 - 9.0 Corrected

9.3:1 - 9.5:1 Static.

Consider the Wiseco 9.0 or something similar, assuming zero deck you can get a few points by going to a thinner gasket.

That's just 1 way to consider getting there, there are others.

[dirtbike_pgr]

  would this cam work well in a high compresion 95 ?

currently has 211's and stock heads  10.5 -1 comp

dealership generic build.

would i get a bump with  just cam?

OR,  is it time for  heads and...

dyno;d at 94h 94t  when first done in 06

loved it then..nice change from 80 horse evo build

ready for some more fun..

o6 sglide

[mayor]

  would this cam work well in a high compresion 95 ?

currently has 211's and stock heads  10.5 -1 comp

depends on what you goal is.  If you wanted the build to ping uncontrollobly, then it may be a good choice. 

....too much compression for that cam.

[02GhostRiderVA]

I would certainly consider the Crane HTC 300-2 over the TW21 and agree the HTC 300-2 a good alternative to the TW26. Not sure I would necessarily run out and replace my TW26 for the HTC 300-2, as they both SEEM to have similar preformance charteristics in a 95" low compression build (based on the above dyno results) -- though we all know the dyno doesn't tell the complete story regarding a bike's performance (too many variables to account for).  Great thread!

[DaleW]

I looked up the Crane site but the only listing is for the 88 cam.What is their part number for the 96?thanks

Dale

[ClassicRider2002]

^
Here are a couple of "THREADS/LINKS" which might be beneficial to others since they are related topics...                                                                 
SIMPLY, CLICK, VIEW & READ:

• 95 CONVERSION BY JOE MINTON  AMERICAN RIDER


• WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STATIC, CORRECTED, HOT AND COLD COMPRESSION?

Regards,

"Classic"

[ClassicRider2002]

^
Hello everyone, and Happy New Year!

Thought I would "LINK" a CAM SPECS sheet provided to me by Bagger which basically I have modified to show 18 cams spec information......

Thought it might be interesting to some folks...

Regards,

"Classic"

[NOTE: Please remember that putting your cursor next to the paper clip icon below and clicking upon it will allow you to either open the specs information as well as providing one the option of saving the excel program to your computer if so desired.]

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[jsachs1]

A little tough to figure out   The '06 Dyna,and '07 up models use 6000 series numbers.
1-6000 HTC 300 chain Cam
1-6001 HTC 310   "        "
Find a W.D.,as Crane is backordered on Harley cams for now.
John

[DaleW]

my bad, I see the ref for the 300  (1-6000 for 07 newer bikes), I was more interested in the 310.

Dale

[FLTRI]

  would this cam work well in a high compresion 95 ?

currently has 211's and stock heads  10.5 -1 comp

dealership generic build.

would i get a bump with  just cam?

OR,  is it time for  heads and...

dyno;d at 94h 94t  when first done in 06

loved it then..nice change from 80 horse evo build

ready for some more fun..

o6 sglide

With a Thunderheader or equivalent this would/should produce 100/100 without a sweat. Carb or EFI? dyno tuned?
We did this build as a budget 100/100 from 1999-2006.

[dirtbike_pgr]

  would this cam work well in a high compresion 95 ?

currently has 211's and stock heads  10.5 -1 comp

dealership generic build.

would i get a bump with  just cam?

OR,  is it time for  heads and...

dyno;d at 94h 94t  when first done in 06

loved it then..nice change from 80 horse evo build

ready for some more fun..

o6 sglide

With a Thunderheader or equivalent this would/should produce 100/100 without a sweat. Carb or EFI? dyno tuned?
We did this build as a budget 100/100 from 1999-2006.

Hey thanks for your response... yes they dynod it after 500 miles when new

SERT... and EFI  rinehart trues 

would just a pipe get me to 100/100 with another tune?

[Bagger]

The majority of virtually any Harley motor's life is spent in the mid-portion of its rpm limits, between 2000 and 4000 rpm. At open-road cruising speeds, that range is more like 2500 to 3500 rpm. With current Twin Cam gearing 2002-2006 (3.15), top gear at 2331 rpm returns a road speed of 55 mph and 3602 delivers 85 mph. Riders sometimes "putt" around at 2000 or less.  Even when accelerating to cruising speed, only a very few use more than 4000 - 4500 rpm as a shift point. Very seldom, in day-to-day use, do our engines get near 5000 rpm, let alone 6000..

MPH    3.15     3.37     Difference
5th       RPM     RPM    RPM
45        1907    2042    135
50        2119    2268    149
55        2331    2495    164
60        2543    2722    179
65        2755    2949    194
70        2966    3176    210
75        3178    3403    225
80        3390    3630    240
85        3602    3857    255
90        3814    4084    270
95        4026    4310    284
100      4238    4537    299

[hogandtow]

well bike is done, now i have a power band that is better for my riding style. stock stage 1 ran pretty good but it just ran out of power to quick short shifting with to much throttle say leaveing a light with traffic beside you it was to hard to get away. now with a little bit of throttle they are all in your mirror. going up hills what hills? bike sounds better also. i have a cobra tuner on it now will try to get it on a dyno early spring.

[FLTRI]

"ran out of power too quick "
Typically you would be running out of power at about 4000rpms with stock cams if tuned properly. Not sure why you would have problems getting off the line considering that is where the stock cams shine compared to any performance cam.

Maybe that cobra tuner was simply adjusted too rich or too lean down low for the stock engine, which causes the engine to be sluggish.

Anyway, glad you are delighted with the performance from your change(s).
Happy New Year!
Bob

[harleytoprock]

hogandtow,
        How would you rate the Crane 300-2 cams regarding noise compared to stock? Thanks

[hogandtow]

quiet cams used georges aligment pins on oil pump and lifter blocks. stage 1 was stock then added xied color on plugs was light to medium brown very nice looking, i just put on the cobra with the build. power builds with the revs much nicer

[Jeffd]

"ran out of power too quick "
Typically you would be running out of power at about 4000rpms with stock cams if tuned properly. Not sure why you would have problems getting off the line considering that is where the stock cams shine compared to any performance cam.

Maybe that cobra tuner was simply adjusted too rich or too lean down low for the stock engine, which causes the engine to be sluggish.

Anyway, glad you are delighted with the performance from your change(s).
Happy New Year!
Bob

I would think the bump in compression would help off the line along with the tighter squish.

[WVULTRA]

Wonder how these cams would feel in an '07 bagger with a good 2-into1; and.........a +4 deg advance?