Drive pulley is eating the tranny plate WTF?

[LoRydr]

I have a new spacer on the way and I'll get new seals, but this pulley has eaten a bit on the tranny plate. Is it backwards possibly?

[easyricer]

It would be almost impossible to have it in there backwards. I'd be more inclined to think that the nut came loose on the pulley and it's cocking sideways. Not a hard repair, but when you put it all back together, use red loc-tite on everything. (main drive gear splines, threads for the pulley nut and the lock bolt)
This is one of those "while you're in there" moments. Replace every seal, make sure your belt is in order (no wear), get a look at the stator and rotor, replace the chain tensioner shoe, retorque the tranny plate, and so on. Now is the time to change gear ratios if you have any thoughts about that.
EASY

[billbuilds]

     It doesn't look to me like it's your tranny plate that's interfering but rather, the belt guide on the back of your pulley is hitting your tranny. Here's a pic of my setup - 83 FLHS with stock tranny plate, Sputhe 5 in 4 tranny and Karata 33T pulley. Notice how my tranny overhangs the mount plate - I think that yours is like this too. Also notice how there's an external belt guide but not an internal one. I really think that you need to loose that internal belt guide. Good luck, Bill

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[76shuvlinoff]

and I thought O ring chains were a tight fit.....

[prodrag1320]

if the nut did come loose,it most likley damages the splines on the pully & the final drive,if so,replace both with the later full spline pully.loctite or whatever,it`ll keep coming loose if the parts arnt replaced

[bagga]

if the splines on the main gear are worn at all, replace that too. if you put a new pulley on a worn main gear your pulley won't last the summer and you will be doing all over again. i know, i did it.

[Lew]

If that is the stock pulley, it's probably loose.  If it's loose you will need to replace the main drive gear and possibly the mainshaft.  The powdered Iron from the pulley works past the mainshaft seal embeds itself into the bushing and takes out the shaft.  The loose pulley takes out the splines on the MDG.
All this usually starts out as a simple seal replacement, to fix that pesky oil leaking on the belt, and ends up being a near tranny rebuild.
Hopefully that's not you.  Good Luck!

Lew   

[LoRydr]

If that is the stock pulley, it's probably loose.  If it's loose you will need to replace the main drive gear and possibly the mainshaft.  The powdered Iron from the pulley works past the mainshaft seal embeds itself into the bushing and takes out the shaft.  The loose pulley takes out the splines on the MDG.
All this usually starts out as a simple seal replacement, to fix that pesky oil leaking on the belt, and ends up being a near tranny rebuild.
Hopefully that's not you.  Good Luck!

Lew   

I hope it's not that bad. So I will start tomorrow taking "Potty mouth" apart and see where I stand $$$

Thanks to all for input.

[LoRydr]

Took all day to get the primary off. So the mainshaft nut actually bottoms out before the pulley is tight enough...close but not enough. I don't get much side to side play on the mainshaft. I have to put some decent pressure to make it move sideways at all. In and out has a chunk of end play. I've been told that's normal. I posted a pic. Is it the spacer that we see (along with the seal)?

I repalced the rotor & stator last summer. The tranny plate does stick out from below the trany bottom. Wonder if it's backwards...

I should replace the belt this time around. More fun. Ha ha!

[billbuilds]

     The Moco used three different main drive gear spacers on the rotary top transmissions. The one that you need is 35070-82A or the aftermarket equivalent. Your tranny plate appears to be on correctly or else your oil filter bracket would not bolt on to the back of it. Curious that in your first pic the tranny does appear to hang out over the mounting plate whereas in your second pic I think that I can see the rub mark on the front portion of the plate. Is the plate somehow cocked front to back? Appears that the MDG seal was doing its job. You've done the hardest part of final belt replacement, shouldn't be too tough from here. Let us know if you get jammed up. Good luck, Bill

[76shuvlinoff]

These guys will get you sorted out.

Now I know this adds absolutely no value to this thread but LoRydr, seriously? You stuff is waaaay too clean. 

[LoRydr]

These guys will get you sorted out.

Now I know this adds absolutely no value to this thread but LoRydr, seriously? You stuff is waaaay too clean. 

Ha ha. Last summer I yanked & cleaned the tranny and other parts. Right now the belt is greasier than any chain I've seen I haven't been able to put but 1500 or so miles in the past year.

[easyricer]

Yeah that is that spacer you are looking at. Once you have it out get a good look for ANY wear on it at all. Not much tolerance for wear at all on that. Once you have the new spacer, seal and pulley installed grab that main shaft again and see how much play you get. ANY play that you can feel, in, out or side to side is too much. Right now, with nothing holding against the bearings, spacers and bushings there will be some.
I just went through this a while back on mine and a customers bike.
EASY

[Dan89flstc]

Once you have the new spacer, seal and pulley installed grab that main shaft again and see how much play you get. ANY play that you can feel, in, out or side to side is too much.
 
EASY

Easy, do you mean excess play on the main drive gear?

Trying to figure out in my head how the pulley/ spacer/ nut/ stackup on the main drive gear affects the mainshaft.

[Lew]

A dial indicator on the mainshaft will let you know the condition of the shaft and bushing.  Max is .004".  It's important to check that the pulley nut does indeed tighten up on the pulley hub and not bottom out on the shaft.  Some factory pulleys were thin in the hub and right on the edge of being thick enough.  It's important to use the correct spacer, although I think the two others are thicker so won't cause the pulley to do what it's doing.  After you get it together with the new spacer and all is good, check alignment of the two pulleys.  Best to align the rear axle first by matching the distance between the center of the axle to the center of the swingarm pivot bolt on both sides, then verify that the pulleys are aligned.  Easy to shim the rear pulley to get it right on.  Good luck!

Lew

[LoRydr]

Correction...the mainshaft nut does not bottom out. The nut typing this does. There is too much play side to side and in & out. It's just time for at least bearings.

[easyricer]

That's what I was getting at. Once everything is in place, (before the primary is on) grab the mainshaft, shake it and push/pull on it. If you can feel it move in and out, then the mainshaft bearing on the other end of the tranny is worn. If you can move it side to side, then the main drive gear bearings and bushing are worn. Either one being loose will cause trouble.
You can't really "feel" .004 of play, but you can feel .010 of play. That why I said, if you can feel it move, then it ain't right.
EASY

[LoRydr]

I finally got the tranny open and guts out...took all day. With calipers, I measured about .006 less where the mainshaft meets the bushing, than the rest of the shaft. The bushing is toast, need a new shaft seal and bearings. And I guess, a new main shaft. Best place/deal to get these???

[easyricer]

Order a JIMS rebuild kit. Has all the gaskets, a new bushing (that has to be sized) and all of the lock tabs you'll need. You can take the mainshaft, main gear and the new bushing to a machine shop, have the old one pressed out, the new one pressed in and have them do a clean up on the mainshaft if it's worn, then size the bushing to match. I've had that done several times on customers bikes to save a few bucks for them. Never had any problems at all. $30 at the machine shop beats $185 for the new mainshaft any day of the week. You should also be able to get all of the bearings at any local bearing house.
EASY

[LoRydr]

I like the idea of getting the mainshaft taken down a few thou to match the low spot, BUT, will there be any issues with how the clutch hub might be a looser fit? Will the small mainshaft seal be able to 'seal'?

[easyricer]

as long as it's only a few thousands, it'll be just fine. They won't be cutting on the taper so it will not affect the clutch or the bearing fitment for the mainshaft bearing. Like I said I've had it done a few times and it works out good. The only difference is going to be a little looser fit in the bearing but it's hardly noticeable. I think the most they ever removed for me was .002 and I didn't notice and loose fit in the primary bearing at all.
When I worked as an industrial mechanic we've even had shafts hard-chromed then resized to maintain a tight fit in a bearing. I don't think, in this case, it's a cost effective option, though. Parts are still available at reasonable prices.
EASY

[LoRydr]

 As far as mainshaft, I'm lookin at .006 takedown at least. The seal should be just barely OK. And yeah, the clutch hub will ride on the taper. Maybe green locktite for the primary bearing to seat on the mainshaft?

[easyricer]

If it's .006 overall you should be fine. If it's .006 off the surface, that'll take it down to .012 and be too loose. You can go to your local bearing house and get a tighter fitting main bearing. It's a pretty standard size.
EASY

[LoRydr]

Yeah, a tighter bearing would do the trick. I wonder what a shop charge is for that...taking down the mainshaft size and reaming a bushing to fit. I measured .998 at the fattest and .992 @ the worn area +/- .0005. I need to get a parts list together and start shopping. Minor kicker cover items/issues can take a back seat for now. I will change out the drive belt. It's seen better days and is well justified to do now.

I need to be ready to go by the middle of may for a special occasion..."Racin for Kasin". A poker run for a child family member that spent 6 months in the hospital recently.

My latest fun task is getting the starter clutch gear off. I bought some cheapy gear pullers and will have to grind them to fit. And I will have the nut on loosely to keep the threads and shaft from getting bungled up. I do have some copper liner in my vise to protect the shaft.
Thanks for the input and keep it comin'.

[easyricer]

 Bearings typically come in 3 fit sizes. (normal bore, tight fit and loose fit) The tight fit is only .0004 smaller than standard.
When you take it down to your machine shop, be sure and specify a clean up on the shaft. If they cut it down too much, you'll have wasted the effort to save a few bucks. Like I said before the most they've ever taken off for me was .002, if you only have a difference of .005 (diameter) then they'll have to cut .0025 off to straighten things out. That should still be just fine and you will not notice any looser fit on the primary side. The green loc-tite should take that up just fine.
If they have to take any more off, then I'd say get a new shaft. Damn, now you got ME over thinking this!

EASY

[Lew]

A new Andrew's mainshaft is $139.95 from Jireh.  A new Andrew's MDG with sized bushing is $118.95.  Jim's tranny rebuild kit is 149.99.  Top quality, no hassles.

Lew

[LoRydr]

A new Andrew's mainshaft is $139.95 from Jireh.  A new Andrew's MDG with sized bushing is $118.95.  Jim's tranny rebuild kit is 149.99.  Top quality, no hassles.

Lew

So a new MDG is a given? Old one is not to be considered? That's my wallet asking questions. I only wanted to stop a leak. Wasn't considering a complete rebuild. I'm just not loaded with $$$. With a new belt, this can go over $500.  But I do appreciate the straight scoop here.

[LoRydr]

I did just recently find an indy 10 miles from home that speaks shovel. I'm hoping his shop can help with getting the bearings in & out and a few more things perhaps.

[96flhpi]

If that indy's good with shovels I would order my parts through him. Last winter, like you I wound up with a rebuild when all I wanted was to stop a leak.  Ordered everything but the mainshaft - found one OEM - from my local and he wound up pressing in bearings/bushings for free and gave me a hard time when I tried to tip him $20.  Plus I got a lot of free advice and he semi-knows me now.  I'm sure Easy will attest that some local shops appreciate the business they know you can do for cheaper online.  Jeez the advice was worth way more than the $$ I would have saved.

BTW, if the old MDG is in good shape the bushing can be replaced and sized to the new mainshaft.

[LoRydr]

Yeah, I'm going with him for parts too. I know he can back up parts and labor. Definately good advice to be had.

I cleaned the box up with K1 today. Still have to clean the top. To me, the MDG looked OK. But after mocking up that with the new spacer and nut, there is wiggle, I believe with the bearings. I'll get a 2nd opinion (advice).