The sort of thing that gets my attention

[Sporty 48]

Andy, you have a ricer.
Harleys are fluffy, do not need wheelie or traction control, they only need brake control during panic stops.
Only time the front end lifted on the Sporty was when 2 dogs scared the poo out of me by trying to bite my leg, kind of rushed a shift in my hurry to depart the area.

[whittlebeast]

So how do you guys determine the difference between a very poor designed air cleaner or it it is torque control biting your tune on a DBW ride? 

What do you guys accept as a reasonable pressure drop across an air filter?

Just asking questions...

Beast

[Steve Cole]

Harleys have traction control/torque control/wheelie control built into the ecm?

Only Electronic Throttle Control (DBW) bikes have torque limiting, no traction control, no wheelie control. It just seems when some people need to type something, things get made up.  Some HD models even have ABS systems too.

So how is traction control / wheelie control / and torque control different?

IMHO There is no such thing as wheelie control, I've watched and ridden plenty of bikes both HD's and ricers, early and late model and when you want to pull the front end up they will all do it, in various amounts. In order to prevent it, the bike would need to be equipped with a level sensor to tell when the front wheel was in the air. The the code would have to be able to tell the difference from going up hill or down hill as well.

Traction control is just that, code that is able to tell when the wheels are slipping and then adjust either the brakes, power output or both to control the slip. It requires at least wheel speed sensors on all wheels.

Torque control is just that too. The ECM limits or controls the max torque output through the use of various methods. Three completely different things that do different things.

[whittlebeast]

Ever ridden a BMW S1000RR?

It works.

[brunothedog]

IMHO There is no such thing as wheelie control,

the Aprilia RSV4 R APRC has a wheelie control unit, among other things

AWC: stability at top acceleration
Exploiting the full power of modern superbikes down to the very last HP is every rider's dream. Aprilia's AWC (Aprilia Wheelie Control) has achieved extraordinary results. Thanks to the exclusive Aprilia patented Wheelie Detection System, the AWC is able to “tell” when a wheelie begins and ends and kicks in to smoothen wheel contact with the road. Smooth, soft wheelie management avoids harsh power cuts or pick-up, providing perfect acceleration control. The AWC system is activated from the instrument panel and can be adjusted independently from other control systems choosing from three settings to better meet rider requirements.

[Steve Cole]

IMHO There is no such thing as wheelie control,

the Aprilia RSV4 R APRC has a wheelie control unit, among other things

AWC: stability at top acceleration
Exploiting the full power of modern superbikes down to the very last HP is every rider's dream. Aprilia's AWC (Aprilia Wheelie Control) has achieved extraordinary results. Thanks to the exclusive Aprilia patented Wheelie Detection System, the AWC is able to “tell” when a wheelie begins and ends and kicks in to smoothen wheel contact with the road. Smooth, soft wheelie management avoids harsh power cuts or pick-up, providing perfect acceleration control. The AWC system is activated from the instrument panel and can be adjusted independently from other control systems choosing from three settings to better meet rider requirements.

So it doesn't stop the wheelie, from how that description sounds, but helps control how it is going to let the front wheel back onto the pavement. Since they went and got a patent for it I bet they got plenty of processor power just for that one device. It would be interesting to find out what sensors they added to get it all to work.

[whittlebeast]

So how does Harley do their torque control?   Timing, DBW override....

Why is it there?  To protect the motor from detonation or to protect Harley from lawyers and customers with poor judgement?

What is the accepted method for beating it?

Beast

[hrdtail78]

The only thing I have seen in DBW is the gearing/ speed control.  Won't let you pull to redline in 6th gear. 

If you know how to wheelie, you can wheelie about any motorcycle.  I rode a new K1600GT beemer.  Traction control on and off.  Way to foreign for me to get crazy on that thing, but if I had it a couple of days.....

[Jeffd]

So how does Harley do their torque control?   Timing, DBW override....

Why is it there?  To protect the motor from detonation or to protect Harley from lawyers and customers with poor judgement?

What is the accepted method for beating it?

Beast

maybe to protect the crank from twisting.

[whittlebeast]

Here is how my first stab at tuning a PC5 with data logging LCD and a wideband came.  I went to tuning with a combination of Speed Density and Alpha-N tuning maps.  The bike now feels like the motor is electric and is extremely linear throughout the entire rev range.  Note that the entire map is up side down so that the map looks like it does on the tuning screen.  On the left is the actual AFR as reported every 1/10 sec resolution.  On the right is the target AFR for comparison.

You can clearly see in this trace how the wheelie/torque control holds the MAP to 94 KPA even though the local baro was right at 100 KPA today.

http://www.ncs-stl.com/pc5wb/SpeedDensity_AFR.bmp

Have fun tuning.

Beast

[whittlebeast]

I nailed the tune on the rice bike....

http://www.ncs-stl.com/pc5wb/AN_vs_SD.bmp

This is both the Speed Density and the Alpha-N maps of the same hour long ride.  I have been using both maps simultaneously to dial in the tune.  it just depends what map makes it easier to get to an issue.

Beast