Is Re-Flash necessary?

[wayne clev.]

I know similar questions have been ask about different engine set-up, but I was unable to find anything on my particular engine modification's.  I have an 05 FLHTCUI with a 95" kit, stock ECM and I am running Andrew 26 cams. I have tried several sets of free flowing mufflers with a K&N air filter and PC3 dyno tune from my local Harley shop. To make a long story short, several month ago I got tired of all the noise so I put a set of 08 stock mufflers from an FLHTC on my bike and removed the pc3, leaving the K&N  filter on. I have put about 2,000 miles on my bike with sat up this way and I am completely satisfied with the way it runs and the reduced noise.

Do any of you Harley mechanics think this sat-up will cause any damage.  I have no pinging, and the oil temp is running the same as it did with the PC3 and dyno tune. My gas millage has also increased from 36-38 MPG to 43-46 MPG with the 08 mufflers on, depending on how I ride.

[BUBBIE]

My feelings would be to run this way... It isn't Lean and the only thing the re-flash will do IMO is a little more fuel at WOT, and Moves rpm's up so redline is 6200 RPM... (I don't go there) Do You?

I think the exhaust Back to stock will allow your bike to run lean, Like HD has it set.....  but not Lean enough to require a tuner.. I believe the addition of the cams allows your bike to Breath better, and will Not Lean it out...(actually more flow)

Hd says the adjustment will adjust for ONE or the OTHER ...  Intake-air OR Exhaust,, not both..

Now this is just ME and there are a lot of They's out there that KNOW.... We'll hear some noise.

signed....BUBBIE

[Bakon]

So your running a stock ECM tune to a 88 that has stock cams and stock air cleaner and stock pipes BUT you have a larger 95 inch motor, different cams and higher flowing air cleaner, all which want more fuel, but pipes which were stock on a 96 motor ( again more flow)....am I missing something?

[wayne clev.]

That's about it. I know it's not your normal sat-up, but like I said the oil temp is as cool as when Harley did the dyno tune with the pc3. there is no pinging and it actually seams to have more mid range torque than it had with the dyno tune and free flowing pipes.

[Mr. Fatty]

How do the plugs look?

[wayne clev.]

The plugs have a light tan look. No blistering or anything you would expect with a lean condition.

[Rags722]

So your running a stock ECM tune to a 88 that has stock cams and stock air cleaner and stock pipes BUT you have a larger 95 inch motor, different cams and higher flowing air cleaner, all which want more fuel, but pipes which were stock on a 96 motor ( again more flow)....am I missing something?

  My feelings exactly.  That bike has to be running lean.  The question is how bad is it?  I'd love to know the AFR before and after a good tune was put on it.  At the very least I wouldn't feel "good" about pushing it hard until it had a flash upgrade for something close to what it looks like now.

[FLTRI]

In a nutshell, to recap the facts:
1) When the came from the factory it was tuned very lean.
2) You increased the ci by just under 10%
3) You opened up the intake to breathe more freely
4) You changed the cam timing which moves fuel demand up, down and across the board

Knowing the above it is safe to say you may "feel" it's ok but that's only because you haven't had it re-calibrated for the changes to "feel" the difference.

From my experience I can say with confidence, you have left significant performance on the table and may just run lean enough under heavy load to cause premature wear.

Get it tuned!! You will not regret it!
HTH,
Bob

[macfhionghuin]

 

                      Macfhionghuin

[PC_Hater]

The short answer is that a re-flash or tune is neccessary.
My 88" with SE air filter and Andrews 21 cam and quiet exhaust ran OK-ish with the standard flash but it was much better with the Stage 1 download. It was better still with the properly tuned PC111.

Then the PC111 broke in Belgium so now it is back to the Stage 1 flash only.

At the very least get the 95" flash done.

[Ardy]

The Dynojet website should have something close for the PCIII. You already have the tool, use it. Screw the Stage 1 or 2 download it's just money out the door.

[wayne clev.]

Thanks everone for your advise. I loaded the original tune on my pc3 last night that my Harley dealer did a couple of years ago. Other than the lower gas millage and exhaust noise I was happy with the performance. I'll give it a try this weekend and see how it goes.

[FLTRI]

...Other than the lower gas millage

Easily remedied if you can identify where the throttle position is and where the rpms are we can help you adjust the mapping to get better mileage.

and exhaust noise...

Gotta say that's a bit odd coming from a Harley rider.
Bob

[wayne clev.]

Thanks for the offer. I run a lot between 70-80 mph on the interstate and that is the area I would like to improve the millage in if possible. My rpm range would be between 2750 and 3200.
The attached map is the one I am running now. Take a look at it and if you have any suggestions, I would appreciate it.

Regards/Wayne

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[FLTRI]

Wayne,
Just took a peak at your tuning file.
Has this bike been dyno tuned?

If it hasn't, get it done and ask the tuner to set your cruise to 14.2-4:1. You will be happy you did!

If it has, the tuner is clueless and you paid $$ for 1/2 tune at best.
You see, this file is still in basic format (only one cylinder tuning map for both) and is unacceptable to call it a dyno tuned map simply because you have 2 cylinders that must be tuned separately as no 2 cylinders operate the same so they need different fueling...not to mention no 2 injectors output the same quantity of fuel over a given period of time (duty cycle).

Either way your bike cannot be tuned for best performance and mileage given the map you provided.
HTH,
Bob

[wayne clev.]

Yes, that is the map my local Harley dealer did for my bike a couple of years ago. The dealer is a authorized dynojet tuning service center.  I have never been happy with the map and that is why I started fooling around with no map at all loaded in the bike. Like I said in another post, the bike runs as good or better with the stock ECM as it does with the map. The oil temp. also runs cooler without the map.

I guess I will start looking for another tuner in the east Tennessee area. Thanks for your input.

[FLTRI]

...The dealer is a authorized dynojet tuning service center...

That means they bought a dyno from Dynojet.

I have never been happy with the map and that is why I started fooling around with no map at all loaded in the bike. Like I said in another post, the bike runs as good or better with the stock ECM as it does with the map. The oil temp. also runs cooler without the map.

That's because the bike is not properly tuned.

Things you will notice with a proper tune:
1) Much improved throttle response (crisp and snappy)
2) Noticeably smoother running. (less vibration and lugging feel)
3) Excellent fuel mileage (40+mpg)
4) Better overall power especially when passing on the highway.

I guess I will start looking for another tuner in the east Tennessee area. Thanks for your input.

Look for a tuner who has a noted/good reputation and happy customer referrals. Simply being on a list is not good enough.

HTH,
Bob

[wayne clev.]

OK, Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll do some looking around.