'70 shovel problem

[anguscraggin]

Hope someone can shed some light on this one for me.  1970 shovel head, got the engine put back together last summer and put about 50 miles on it.  It fired right up after the assembly but after a few times trying to crank it, it got harder to start.  When trying to crank it, the starter turns and the engine starts to pick up but at barely no more RPMs than the starter motor is turning.  Once you release the starter button the engine wont catch and I know something is off in the timing or something. I dont have a timing light so I havnt checked that possibility.  Its sat since last summer because I just havnt had time to fool with it because of a new baby, finishing college and working during spare time, as if I had any!  Any input will be welcomed. 
Thanks,
Angus

[Reddog74usa]

Do the simple stuff first. Check the battery, points gap, ground cables and see if it's getting fuel.

[Tobias]

In addition to what Reddog said...

Since it has sat for a year the fuel is bad and the carb may be gummed up.
Dump the fuel, clean the carb.

If the battery has sat for a year without being on a charger it won't have enough life to start.  Check the water levels, put it on a charger overnight and give it another shot.

If it runs at all put a volt meter across the battery terminals and see what it's putting out.
Should be over 13 volts at 2000 RPM.

Lots of skilled guys on this board, somebody will post a solution

[War Horse]

If it did this last summer after 50 miles of riding, I would think your break-in didnt go well....

[easyricer]

50 miles after the motor was opened up..... If you didn't retorque the heads, it's very possible you are loosing compression through the head gaskets and that gas will have to go! More than likely, like mentioned the gas is bad and the carb is gummed up. I'll also guess at a bad condenser and possibly bad coil wires.
EASY

[jack744]

Valves might be sticking open ,not enough to bend but enough to loose compression.

[dablaze]

Look up the directions on static timing, that should get you there for now. I can't remember the procedure.

Craig

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Does it have solid lifters, or a solid lifter conversion??
Scott

[motorplex88]

If you pull your carb for cleaning check your intake manifold seals and fitment while your there. Agree with all the stuff the other gents have recommended. A quick compression check will tell ya enough to know if you got valve related or head gasket issues. No compression, No bang.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Reason I asked about the solids, and on a fresh valve job, the pushrods can get tight, after initial run in.
Re-torque base nuts, head bolts, and re-adjust the valves if so equipped.
Scott

[nw69fl]

First thing, never neglect your shovel by letting it sit around and not being started once in awhile. They are meant to be run. Take the time to get to know all the special little tricks to keeping it happy.

[anguscraggin]

Update to the '70 shovel problem.  To address speculation;  I drained the gas out of the bike before I stored it.  I retorqued base and head bolts after heating it up and putting a few miles on it.  I gapped the points and checked and tested all the ignition components.  I put about 340 miles on it not 50(sorry, my bad).  I intend on changing the oil and filter @ 500 miles as the top end has been completely replaced(valves, guides, rocker arms & shafts).  I am running solid lifters in it, always have since I bought it, I know they're noisy but I like 'em. The carb is an S&S superE on an S&S bottom end. 
I cranked it up today(first time since last year) after replacing a bad coil, it was hard to start and didnt sound right.  It did the same thing thing; it started but it took a lot out of the starter and battery.  I seems to me I need to reset the timing but I dont have a timing light or a tach, so Im checking all my friends tools kits for a timing light.  Wish me luck.

Angus

[dan winright]

static timing.pull both spark plugs.makes the engine roll thru easier.set front cyl to top dead center,on exhaust stroke. remove timing plug,there you should see a line on the flywheel.it should be centered in the hole.now,go to the points cover,remove it.your points should just begin to open. if they arent,reset gap,loosen the stand offs stick a ciggarette celophane between the points contacts,and turn the backer plate till the celophane easily pulls thru. put it back together and ride the damn thing.     that should do it for ya,   dan

[War Horse]

 , static timing is actually a better way to do it, most times the oil behind the clear plug makes it hard to see and the mark is bouncing all over the hole. BTW I used to set all my builds up on the bench, with the line more towards the front of the hole. Just what I did and everyone has a preference....

[Snuff™]

Bottom end is probably full of oil.  Put a pan under the crankcase breather hose.

[alstar2]

when you static time it,i believe it should be at full
advance.to do this i have an old set of pliers that i
ground out to reach around the point cam bolt & rotate point
cam to full adv. & just open points with time mark in window.
if you have an ohmn meter put it on the point wire & ground.
   Al

[easyricer]

War Horse got the trick..... put the line in the front of the hole, you won't have to mess with trying to keep the timing advanced. Make sure you get the gap right and even first. Should fire up in 3 kicks.
You can leave it there if it fires and runs ok. What I do after that is take it out for a ride, advance the timing in small increments until I hear the motor "ping" under heavy load, then back it back off until it goes away. Every motor is different, so where you're timing will ultimately land is anybodies guess. The timing light can only tell you where it's at, not where it needs to be. Today's fuels require different timing than the leaded gas our bikes were designed for.
The static timing is just a start point, just like the 1 1/2 turns out on the fuel mixture (for an S&S carb), just a start point. I rarely ever have a motor that stays on the initial settings.
EASY

[76shuvlinoff]

 

Even on my electronic sparker that's about all I do, advance it till it pings and back off till it doesn't. The guy that wrote the book telling us how to do it looking through the timing hole on a running mill is probably still laughing in his grave.

[easyricer]

The guy that wrote the book telling us how to do it looking through the timing hole on a running mill is probably still laughing in his grave.

YEARS ago I bought a card full of those little clear plastic timing plugs, in 10 years......I sold one! (to my brother)
EASY

[76shuvlinoff]

Easy,
the only time I tried to time mine with a light was early in my shovel years and a buddy who knew all there was to know about anything was going to show me how it was done. We read the book, didn't have a clear plug or a friggin clue. He's all lined up on the hole sighting down his timing light and tells me to "hit it". Bike fired right off....... and I think he is still spitting oil.

I knew he was spitting mad as I fell over laughing trying to get the hell out of his garage and his reach.

[War Horse]

I still have one in my tool box, I keep to loan to the young know it all's, they allways return it and say "what a piece of sht"....

I do enjoy saying ,I told you so.......

[dablaze]

I have used my clear plug a few times when I have someone to give a hand...it is a pain, but if you paint the timing mark with fluo or bright white paint and if you dim the lights right down in the room, and if you weren't with the palm sisters the night before...it can work!

Craig

[motorplex88]

The best use for them clear plugs is when someone rolls in your shop and has the timing hole plug stripped out. They can jam one of them dudes in there to get em home.

[Snuff™]

Take the clear plug and use a piece of 1200-1500 grit sand paper, remove those spirials and it will be like a clear piece of glass.  Did it about 10yrs ago, but haven't needed to use it yet.

[anguscraggin]

I appreciate all the posts guys, but I need some more info.  How do I get the front cyl at TDC?  This bike has an S&S bottom end and the timing marks on the flywheels are different than a stock HD mill, I can see an "F" with a line next to it and a "T:F" in a different spot on the flywheel through the timing hole.  I tried following Dans instructions on static timing and I thought I had the front cyl @ TDC but I couldnt see s*#t through the GD timing hole and I cant find a f-ing thing on the web that tells me what these marks mean.  Thanks guys for your input.
Angus

[moosemush]

Try here:                                         http://www.sscycle.com/techtips/tech_tipslist.php?x_catagory=6

[billbuilds]

     Angus,
     Here's how I find TDC: Take both spark plugs out. If you have a kicker sit on the bike and roll it over while you hold your thumb over the front plug hole. When it starts to build pressure stop and grab a plastic drinking straw. Slide it into the cylinder thru the plug hole until it bottoms on the piston. Slowly turn the motor over as you watch the straw rise with the piston. You may have to hold the straw upright and let it slide thru your fingers. Get it to where it's at it's highest point. Now take your timing plug off and see if you can see either of the timing marks. Putting the bike in 4th gear and slowly rolling the rear wheel forward and back should bring them into sight. Using the straw and the timing marks you should be able to figure out which one is which (advance and full retard).  HTH< Bill

[Ajayrk]

l S&S Big Twin flywheels have three timing marks,
"F", "R" and "TF". The "F" mark stands for front cylinder
35° before top dead center (TDC). The "R" mark is
rear cylinder 35° before TDC. The "TF" mark is TDC
front cylinder.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/download/ssmanuals/flywheel.pdf

[harpwrench]

The way I static set timing is as the other guys said, except I clip a test light end to ground, other end jumper-wired to points wire going to coil. With the switch on turn the points plate until the instant the points break, test light will come on. Other ignition related pitfalls....Make sure your advance isn't stuck, always set your points gap before setting timing. Make sure the points gap is equal on both lobes when you roll it over, tap the head of the bolt to center it if not. Make sure the condenser is good, I've had brand new bad ones right out of the box too.

[anguscraggin]

To all who posted...
Thanks for the input and advice, its up and runnin' like a top!  All went well on the check ride today and me and the old lady are taking it for a little spin this afternoon.  Thanks again, I'll post a pic in the next few days.
Angus

[fzee]

I looked to see if you said anything about adjusting your valves.  I didn't see anything and as was stated earlier in this post you should at least check them.  A fresh build with solid lifters will tighten up and hold the valve open just enough to make it hard to start.  Any ironhead (XL) wrench will tell you that.  Try a set of V- Thunder lifters and you'll never have to screw with them again!!!!

[mike c]

I guess if  it was me I would give S&S a call and ask them about the marks. They are friendly folks and will definately not be guessing when they give you an answer. Happy Trails.