Harley Davidson NEW water cooled engine is for real

[War Horse]

That IS very cool stuff FSG, but not what I was refering to....so now I'm on a quest to find my books..sigh 

[dirty jim]

HARLEY'S LAWSUIT TO PATENT THE SOUND OF THIER BIKE'S WAS DISMISSED BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE THAT SOUND IS WITH A 45* CRANK PIN. AND YOU CAN'T PATENT THAT ANY MORE THAN YOU CAN A V-8. I HAVE AN 2003 V-ROD, IT'S RADIATOR IS WAY SMALLER THAN A DRESSER'S LOWERS, HEAT IS ONLY FELT WHEN STOPPED AND FANS KICK ON. CHANGE IS COMING PEOPLE, MOVE ON OR MOVE OVER.

[exfed12825]

Hey Pup, If your looking in that red shed better take a case with you, your going to be there awhile.  :

[PC_Hater]

That IS very cool stuff FSG, but not what I was refering to....so now I'm on a quest to find my books..sigh 

Indeed, well done FSG.
War Horse, from your description it could be the flat twin generators they made in the early 1940s for a military contract. They had half shrouds and fans but they were force air-cooled. They made some weird Knucklehead variants in the war too.
Source: Inside Harley-Davidson An Engineering History 1903 to 1945, and well worth finding a copy!

[Ultrashovel]

That IS very cool stuff FSG, but not what I was refering to....so now I'm on a quest to find my books..sigh 

Indeed, well done FSG.
War Horse, from your description it could be the flat twin generators they made in the early 1940s for a military contract. They had half shrouds and fans but they were force air-cooled. They made some weird Knucklehead variants in the war too.
Source: Inside Harley-Davidson An Engineering History 1903 to 1945, and well worth finding a copy!

I understand that HD did build some generators with flat engines for WWII.

The bikes they built were copies of the 1937 BMW flathead/flat twin in inch measurement rather than metric. They had a four-speed foot shift transmission and shaft drive. They were the Model "XA". There were only 1,000 of them built. The forks were much prized by the chopper fans since they were a springer with 2" over legs.

Indian also built a Transverse Vee-engined bike on a WWII contract with a shaft drive. They weren't used in the War, AFAIK.

[harleyjt]

Dale Walksler has several XAs in his collection at Wheels Thru Time.  Two of them are converted to civilian use.  Others are still in military dress.
jt

[Ultrashovel]

Dale Walksler has several XAs in his collection at Wheels Thru Time.  Two of them are converted to civilian use.  Others are still in military dress.
jt

When I was but a mere child n Chicago, I was a junior member of a local motorcycle club. One of the members had an XA that he rode to work. He said that he had ridden it for several years before he discovered that it had a fourth gear. LOL.

It's odd that HD never pursued the shaft drive option since it would be a natural design for a touring bike. They are certainly capable of building shaft drive machines. That featute certainly works well on the Goldwings.

[PC_Hater]

An update on the history of V twins.
Peugeot were building 45 degree side valve (flathead) V twins from 1905.
Norton started using the Peugeot V twin engine in 1906 and in 1907 won the twin cylinder class in the first ever Isle of Man TT.

[War Horse]

That IS very cool stuff FSG, but not what I was refering to....so now I'm on a quest to find my books..sigh 

Indeed, well done FSG.
War Horse, from your description it could be the flat twin generators they made in the early 1940s for a military contract. They had half shrouds and fans but they were force air-cooled. They made some weird Knucklehead variants in the war too.
Source: Inside Harley-Davidson An Engineering History 1903 to 1945, and well worth finding a copy!

Yeah PC, the ones I was thinking of were for knuckles, and had 2 halves that bolted together around the jugs. I haven't found all my books yet, but IIRC the picture was taken from an old issue of "the enthusiast", though I do believe they were developed for the military. And then offered as an add on to the public...Still looking..

[chopper]

If you COULD patent the 45 v twin, then how would you explain S&S and other clone engines?
Also, i know Suzuki is currently making a 45 V twin.

And there's more to the Harley "sound" than the 45 V twin.  Face it, TC's sound a LOT different than Pans or Shovels...

[hd06myway]

Chopper, you can patent anything you want as long as you pay to keep the patent.  Harley sold plates with all their patent motors on them, I had one on my old shovel for years.  Over time, they let the patents run out. 

Apparently Suzuki VX800 which is not a cruiser by any stretch, uses a 45 degree angle V-Twin.  I'm not sure if Harley's patented V-Twin keeps other mc mfg'ers from completely knocking off their design, probably not, since crate motor mfg'ers like S&S reverse eng. a "dupliacte" HD motor.  Although S&S's new wedge motor is completely different than Harley's design in many ways.  Harley lost the patent for their "sound" because depending on what pipes were used, or modifications done, it was literally impossible to narrow it down to one distinct sound.  Since almost all the metric sheep have gone to single crank pin designs in their cloaned V-Twins, it gets harder to distinguish what the Harley sound actually sounds like.  I've heard Yamaha Star bikes that with a good set of exhaust sound great, and others as well, so HD trying to patent the "SOUND" was a little rediculous and a lost cause in my mind.  I do know HD had or still has a patenet on their engines, at least the TC engine patent is still protected, which is the reason why S&S could not reverse engineer another Harley clone crate motor, and went with the very capable, but sort of fugly looking wedge motor.

Bottom line folks, we can argue this and that, the one constant is that every one out there in the hot cruiser market, has HD as their target, No.1 and still standing baby!  

[Don D]

HD has the systems done already to do it either way so I'm sure it will be up to whatever the Styling department approves at HD. Believe me when I tell you guys that Styling is number one when it comes to final design there and sometimes good things get trashed because they do not like it.

That and the test track results

[05FLHTC]

Let's not leave out HD priority number 1 the almighty dollar MONEY

[PoorUB]

CHANGE IS COMING PEOPLE, MOVE ON OR MOVE OVER.

I don't have a problem with change, as long as I like it! The radiators in the lowers is a deal killer for me. If HD comes up with some other reasonable way to mount a radiator to a touring frame that looks ok I will buy one.
I for one have wondered why HD has not produced a touring bike with a variation of the V-Rod mill powering it.

[China twin 88]

The bikes they built were copies of the 1937 BMW flathead

The CJ 750 is often used to simulate the styling of the XA...we use to turn out a few in a year or two year period for re enactors....

[Old Crow]

Hey Greg, here's a V Rod bagger for ya.  I personally think it looks awesome, but then I'm strange like that.

http://www.classybike.com/73416

[CDeucer]

 I agree with ya Crow! May need a few minor adjustments in regards to engine size & tuning, gearing, suspension, seating position, gas tank, etc., but if HD got it right I would have one! A H2O Road Glide Custom would be nice.

[chopper]

Chopper, you can patent anything you want as long as you pay to keep the patent.  Harley sold plates with all their patent motors on them, I had one on my old shovel for years.  Over time, they let the patents run out

As I understand it, you can't patent just anything. It has to be researched and deemed "unique".
  Also,I though patents expired after a certain number of years (perhaps 14?)

[War Horse]

Hell I wouldnt mind a cooler mill down there, plus just think of the 30 page threads we could have on "Whats the best Coolant"

[hd06myway]

Chopper, you can patent anything you want as long as you pay to keep the patent.  Harley sold plates with all their patent motors on them, I had one on my old shovel for years.  Over time, they let the patents run out

As I understand it, you can't patent just anything. It has to be researched and deemed "unique".
  Also,I though patents expired after a certain number of years (perhaps 14?)

Your right, I was a little too general saying you can patent "anything..."  I think HD's TC motor patent is still in place, of course the other motors over the years, they've let the patent expire.

[kickstart]

water cooled HD
maybe one day butt not this year.
And probably not as long as WilleG is kickin

[Old Crow]

Where you been this past, oh, what, 10 years, Danny? 
Yeah, OK, I know, it's  a Porsche, not a Harley.  Same as a ZR-1 was a Mercury Marine motor, not a Chevy. 

[PoorUB]

Hey Greg, here's a V Rod bagger for ya.  I personally think it looks awesome, but then I'm strange like that.

http://www.classybike.com/73416

I have seen other V-rod/bagger conversions too. I am waiting for mother HD to build one.

[kickstart]

Where you been this past, oh, what, 10 years, Danny? 
Yeah, OK, I know, it's  a Porsche, not a Harley.  Same as a ZR-1 was a Mercury Marine motor, not a Chevy. 

DOH
OK yeah .except for that one

[UltraManPaul]

You guys are just too much! LOL! This thread isn't even a week old and already 4 pages of comments! I only read the posts on the first page before I just had to put MY 2 cents in. This is the end of June. The new models are always rolled out at Sturgis each year. And each year, around this time the rumours start. You'd think by now we would be immune to all the hoopla, but we aren't. In MY opinion, (yeah, I know we all have them) IF the MoCo decides to go the watercooled way with the big twin bikes, we will see a motor very similar to the V-Rod. Probably a little bigger but that will be the platform the MoCo will expand on. They've already got tons of money wrapped up in it, why not use it....And, like alot of other people who haven't actually SEEN this new bike, I will swear vehemently that I will keep my '07 Ultra forever....Of course if the new bike is faster, better looking, is more comfortable, and has heated and cooled seats, I might be tempted....maybe...nope! LOL

UMP