Comp Cams Lifters

[Don D]

Consider stainless or GR2 nuts.
The nuts get thin and GR8 are already hard, therefore brittle. Once tightened they are not load bearing

[hog yild]

Consider stainless or GR2 nuts.
The nuts get thin and GR8 are already hard, therefore brittle. Once tightened they are not load bearing

You are correct, how about gr 5?

[Don D]

I thought about that too but milling them will work harden the nut more unless you are using a decent quantity of coolant. If so sure GR5. Just my opinion I don't think this is life and death and anything will be an improvement on the original obvious HD mistake.

[hog yild]

I thought about that too but milling them will work harden the nut more unless you are using a decent quantity of coolant. If so sure GR5. Just my opinion I don't think this is life and death and anything will be an improvement on the original obvious HD mistake.

You would need to do the same for stainless, as it will work harden as well, 304-316 would be worse than 303.
I think I will go with the gr 2, you are right, once locked they will be fine. Thanks for the the help!

[glens]

Ok, here are the OD comparisons between my stock Harley Lifters and the Comp Camp 850-1.
They both seem to be very consistent at the size they are. We are talking about 0.0003 difference between the two.
I would say the Comp Cams are as good as the B lifters in OD, if anything a ever so slight egg shape of 0.0001, which shouldn't make any difference.
Standard bore to lifter tolerance listed in the Service manual 0.0008 to 0.002, and if more than 0.003, replace lifters. They should work better in a slightly worn lifter bore.

                    Harley B Lifters       Comp Cams Lifters
Front Exhaust       Flats      Round       Flats      Round
Top Diameter        0.8422    0.8422       0.8424    0.8425
Bottom Diameter     0.8422    0.8422       0.8424    0.8425
                                       
Front Intake        Flats      Round       Flats      Round
Top Diameter        0.8422    0.8422       0.8425    0.8424
Bottom Diameter     0.8422    0.8422       0.8424    0.8424
                                       
Rear Exhaust        Flats      Round       Flats      Round
Top Diameter        0.8422    0.8422       0.8425    0.8424
Bottom Diameter     0.8422    0.8422       0.8425    0.8424
                                       
Rear Intake         Flats      Round       Flats      Round
Top Diameter        0.8421    0.8421       0.8424    0.8425
Bottom Diameter     0.8421    0.8421       0.8424    0.8425

Lifter Bores all are with in 0.8435 to .8440, I've never been too good at hole telescopic gauges, but I'm sure I'm with in a few tenths.

All four lifters were well loaded with oil on top and in the oil passage which I checked when pulling them out.

I have SE Tapered Adjustable lifters and wouldn't you know it I broke a nut tonight. Guess I will be getting some grade 8 5/16 nuts tomorrow morning on the way to work, and modify them to 3/8-24 for replacements, otherwise the Harley lifters would be in tonight.....

I just wanted to see the tabled data better so added the appropriate codes surrounding it, removed all the tab characters, and re-spaced things in the quote.

[hog yild]

New Nuts are ready to go for tonight!

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[troop]

New Nuts are ready to go for tonight!

You said Nuts. hehehehehe...  Sounds like the way to go with SE quick installs. I actually had a new set of those (with nuts) that I sold last spring to stick with stockers. May be buying some again in a few months...

[hog yild]

I never thought I'd never say this but:

"I hope I don't bust a nut tonight!"

[Thumper Buttercup]

I ordered a couple sets of the hardened nuts from a member here, check out the
twin cam section of the for sale board.  I've had mine off and on a few times and
have had no problem with those nuts.

[hog yild]

Ok all fired up, 3 turns on the Se Adjustables, it is a bit quieter and down to about 1 minute to settle down.
It is colder today than before 35 out. I'll check it in the morning and see what is does.

[wurk_truk]

I gave my SE tapers to Durwood to play with and bought a set of Smiths.  Damn... the Smith EZs are kind of a bitch, but nowadays I no longer worry about it.  I am throwing those and some Woods lifters in the 120 and calling it quits for awhile.

I have the rear cylinder all buttoned up but haven't started the fronts.  I will measure the SE lifters, the Woods lifters and the lifter bores and post that up.

[hog yild]

I gave my SE tapers to Durwood to play with and bought a set of Smiths.  Damn... the Smith EZs are kind of a bitch, but nowadays I no longer worry about it.  I am throwing those and some Woods lifters in the 120 and calling it quits for awhile.

I have the rear cylinder all buttoned up but haven't started the fronts.  I will measure the SE lifters, the Woods lifters and the lifter bores and post that up.

Please do, I would be interested in what OD the Woods lifters are.

[rbabos]

It would be interesting to see what bore clearance you have. Remember .002 is the top end of new and .003 is wore out.
Ron

[hog yild]

It would be interesting to see what bore clearance you have. Remember .002 is the top end of new and .003 is wore out.
Ron

Which would require oversized lifters, who makes them?

[Hilly13]

It would be interesting to see what bore clearance you have. Remember .002 is the top end of new and .003 is wore out.
Ron

not much of a range, pity they did away with lifter blocks......

[1931jamesw]

It would be interesting to see what bore clearance you have. Remember .002 is the top end of new and .003 is wore out.
Ron

Which would require oversized lifters, who makes them?

Feulings HP series lifters are available oversized.

[hog yild]

I didn't check this morning, It's colder than I expected. I have to run home at lunch so I'll do it than. I really don't expect much difference between the 850-1 and my stock B lifters in time required to pump up. With my lifter bores to lifter diameter, I'm getting very close to the .002 with the B lifters and actually the 850-1 would be a better choice to tighten up that tolerance. I can play with the depth of the "B' as I had with the 850-1. I expect similar results between the two.

My conclusions this far, I think the 850-1 lifters are very comparable to the Harley B lifters. I would not hesitate in using them as the go to lifter for direct replacement for Harley B Lifers.

I think in my build, I need something more.....

[1931jamesw]

Im glad to hear that about te Comp Cams lifters. Did you put the larger orifice cup in the Comp Cam lifters? Also, what about a higher volume oil pump?

[hog yild]

Im glad to hear that about te Comp Cams lifters. Did you put the larger orifice cup in the Comp Cam lifters? Also, what about a higher volume oil pump?

No I did not change the cups, I think they are fine. I just posted for general information. I think I'm getting plenty of oil when running, 32-35 psi starting and when running down the road 32-35 psi.
I didn't plan on a high volume pump, yet.

My thoughts are more on line with:
I am running on the high side of clearance, lifter bore to lifter OD. I have chosen to run a high performance cam that is known for it's aggressive ramps. My valve spring pressure is higher than stock. I'm sure if you add all of this up, I am seeing more side loading in the lifter bores for one. Not sure what that does to pump up, specially at colder temps. But I'm also guessing when the engine sits for a longer period of time, the extra pressure helps bleed out the lifters sitting on the lobes. Next an assumption on my part, with more aggressive ramps on the cams, the time to allow the lifters to pump up may be shorter?  And this is probably the biggest thing, the "icing" on the cake, I'm working at startup temps in the 30s and 40s right now.

Again when warmed up the valve train is really not much different than I had before, it's a bit louder, but you have to listen for it. Last time I road, it was in the 60s and my oil temps were around 200 f. No problems with start up after a few hours.

[skyguy59]

I've been following this thread with intrest as I have the same thing going on. I am running a 97" with a Crane 300 on stilts. 2010 heads reworked by V-Twin Performance. Motor has 124,000 miles so I am sure I am on the high side on my lifter bores as well. When the motor is cold is sounds like a lifter has bled down. Takes a minute or two to settle down.  No problems when warmed up and it's quiet going down the road. Changed the Comp Cams out for Woods Directionals and it improved a bit but did not eliminate the noise.  It has to cool down for 8 hours or better before it will make noise again. I guess I will just have to live with it. 

Russ In Texas

[hog yild]

I didn't check this morning, It's colder than I expected. I have to run home at lunch so I'll do it than. I really don't expect much difference between the 850-1 and my stock B lifters in time required to pump up. With my lifter bores to lifter diameter, I'm getting very close to the .002 with the B lifters and actually the 850-1 would be a better choice to tighten up that tolerance. I can play with the depth of the "B' as I had with the 850-1. I expect similar results between the two.

My conclusions this far, I think the 850-1 lifters are very comparable to the Harley B lifters. I would not hesitate in using them as the go to lifter for direct replacement for Harley B Lifers.

I think in my build, I need something more.....

I am at a loss for words here guys. Remember I swapped back to my Harley B lifters with 25000 miles. Started up last night at 8:30pm, It's been sitting ever since. I went home at lunch, looked at the oil temp gauge, around 40-45 F. Pushed in the comp releases, had my stop watch ready to go. Fired it up and looked to start the watch. Listened for clattering, and done...... WTF. It is fixed? I am at 3 turns on my SE pushrods, 24ipr, 0.125 deep.
So I rode back to work, will see in about 4 hours again.

[WI Bob]

I am at a loss for words here guys. Remember I swapped back to my Harley B lifters with 25000 miles. Started up last night at 8:30pm, It's been sitting ever since. I went home at lunch, looked at the oil temp gauge, around 40-45 F. Pushed in the comp releases, had my stop watch ready to go. Fired it up and looked to start the watch. Listened for clattering, and done...... WTF. It is fixed? I am at 3 turns on my SE pushrods, 24ipr, 0.125 deep.
So I rode back to work, will see in about 4 hours again.
[/quote]

This is very interesting. Maybe we can start a sticky and get the MoCo to get rid of the new C's and go back to the B's. 

[hog yild]

No clatter after work, and riding home It runs just a bit louder than I recall the SE-255 did, but nothing I'm concerned about, oil pressure running 32+ and oil temp 200. Tomorrow morning will be cold and it will have been sitting from 5:30pm today. I plan on another start up, warm up.
I don't want to run these 25000 mile lifters too long, so I broke down and purchased some Woods lifters to replace them with. I think that is probably the safe choice at this point, when finished, everything will pretty much per Bob Wood's recommendations on cams up to valves. Besides I got a very good deal on them 
I wonder if I just ended up with a bad Comp Cam lifter or maybe some dirt? I know it wasn't pushrod adjustment, I was in there a number of times and always reset pushrod length from zero each time I changed length to be sure. Not sure what to say, I know a number of people use them and swear by them, just posting my experience.

[rbabos]

No clatter after work, and riding home It runs just a bit louder than I recall the SE-255 did, but nothing I'm concerned about, oil pressure running 32+ and oil temp 200. Tomorrow morning will be cold and it will have been sitting from 5:30pm today. I plan on another start up, warm up.
I don't want to run these 25000 mile lifters too long, so I broke down and purchased some Woods lifters to replace them with. I think that is probably the safe choice at this point, when finished, everything will pretty much per Bob Wood's recommendations on cams up to valves. Besides I got a very good deal on them 
I wonder if I just ended up with a bad Comp Cam lifter or maybe some dirt? I know it wasn't pushrod adjustment, I was in there a number of times and always reset pushrod length from zero each time I changed length to be sure. Not sure what to say, I know a number of people use them and swear by them, just posting my experience.

Don't take much to shut down a lifter. The tiniest spec in the check valve and it's a leaker. Slow pump up on an otherwise good lifter can only be from bore clearance or too low of oil pressure . Let's face it anytime an engine is shut off likely two lifters are on cam and will leak down. To repump,  oil needs to be forced into them and if the bore clearance is too large the force of the oil to the feed hole is reduced by leaking down the bores. These engines are nothing special, nor the lifters compared to a conventional auto or aircraft engine. Big difference is the oil pressures are usually higher for quicker charging and the bores tighter. Lifters gain in two ways by this.  Probably that's why you never hear the lifters on these other than the odd oil change.  The big issue is lifters are not designed to be in constant movement as is clatter noise. The tight piston clearances rapidly wear and score causing leakage. Then they will never work well after that. This is why it's so important to charge them with oil on a new build or major damage can occur within minutes. The only reason pissing around with pushrod adjustment sometimes works is you got lucky enough to find a tighter spot in the lifter bore that has less leakage.  Clatter sound has more going on than just valve train slop because the lifer roller also gets impacted into the cam. Can't be doing that little needle bearing any good.
Ron

[Don D]

Had a guy call me and I retroactively thought about the conversation and how right he was. .001-.0015 is common in cars and many other bike motors for bore clearance. All of them have metal to metal and the Twin cam is aluminum to metal lifter body. Different coefficient of expansion , double for the case. Makes you wonder of the valve added (or if there is any) in sleeving them with iron and setting the clearance properly.