marelli to delphi conversion

[rsiparts]

Hey guys.... been lurking on this board forever and there are a ton of smart guys here when it comes to Harley tech. So much better than the other boards and I enjoy reading the posts. I run a small service and parts shop outside of Chicago, but I'm actually working on my own bike finally. Went out on a run last weekend and finally the ol' evo gave in. Now I know some people will say build the evo (but don't worry it will be built into another project this winter...) but I have a 2006 Twin Cam with like 12,000 miles on it that we punched out to a 95 for a customer. I've also got the ecu with the map as well as another 06 throttle body, harness etc.

I'm wanting to convert my 98 Ultra to the 06 delphi system. Marelli has always been a problem and I've been screwing with it for too long. I'm so far into this thing it's really just easier for me to convert IMO. I like the delphi system and the tuning abilities if I want to do something else in the future. We've done a few carb conversions from MM, mikuni and SE CV's, but I'm not totally sold on going back to a carb. Hopefully someone on here has experience with the nitty gritty details of delphi....

So the question is this, the way I look at it, if I split up the harness on the 06 and take out the non-essential stuff, I would essentially have a stand alone fuel injection harness. I know the TSSM (which I have) needs to communicate with the ECM, but then on the wiring diagrams the VSS/Serial Data Link (Can bus system? HDLAN...) also goes to the speedo and tach. I know from some diagnostic work on softails without a tach, when reading codes the ECM just throws one code that shows there is no tach connected. I assume it would do the same for the speedo.

So if anyone knows more about how the can-bus system on these works or anything I haven't thought of, I'd love to hear. I'd like to do a writeup on it as well, as I know there's a bunch about MM to carb, but not much for all those Marelli guys looking to stay fuel injected but get rid of that MM crap.

[Rodman]

There is more to think about than just the wiring and the bus.
This guy sells a conversion that lists the parts involved.
http://www.vtwinfuelinjection.com/index.htm?&referrer=http%253a%252f%252fwww.hdforums.com%252fforum%252fmotorcycle-parts-for-sale-misc-parts%252f144413-magnetti-marelli-to-delphi-conversion.html

[rsiparts]

Ya that's Thayer. He prefers to use 02-05 stuff, presumably because of the bus.

I guess I should say that you're right and I didn't really put down that I had all the 06 components. TB, sensors, ECM, TSSM, VSS sensor, etc.

As far as the fuel supply is concerned, I was going to use a pump from a newer model delphi bike (so it will play nice with the new harness), and get the fitting (62189-01a) that came on the switchover year 02 gas tanks. It's got the thread for the marelli tank bung, but the quick disconnect for the delphi line. I was going to order Dan Thayer's fuel rail, but it just doesn't look very clean to me. The stock delphi line looks a lot cleaner IMO.

[Rodman]

You're also going to need an 02 ECM.....I believe they started the serial bus in 03.
But even with the 02 you I think you will have to deal with the TSSM password learn.
The coils are different due to the Ion Sensing.
And I agree....That fuel feed block is butt ugly.....I could do better with a file!

[rsiparts]

I thought the bus stuff started in 04? I thought 03 was the last year without it. Of course I don't have any 03 wiring diagrams or anything else to help me figure that out.

Anyone else out there seen what happens when the speedo and tach are disconnected? Maybe I'll try it if we have an 05-06 FL in the back that has the fairing off. If anyone knows, feel free to chime in, I'd really like to document this for other guys who are sick of Marelli's sh**.

[FSG]

I thought the bus stuff started in 04? I thought 03 was the last year without it. Of course I don't have any 03 wiring diagrams or anything else to help me figure that out.

Yep, '04 was the first, '03 the last. 

Plenty of wiring diagrams in the Documents Section

[rsiparts]

Thanks FSG. Big help bud. You guys ever seen the BUS-ER message on a radio? We've done some radio swaps for customers and ran into that, disconnecting the bus wire at the radio made the problem go away without affecting anything else. Although I wonder if the ECM will get pissed off when the speedo isn't there. But really, speedo is just taking VSS and turning the needle, not much more than that?

[Mr. Torque]

There is more to think about than just the wiring and the bus.
This guy sells a conversion that lists the parts involved.
http://www.vtwinfuelinjection.com/index.htm?&referrer=http%253a%252f%252fwww.hdforums.com%252fforum%252fmotorcycle-parts-for-sale-misc-parts%252f144413-magnetti-marelli-to-delphi-conversion.html

[rsiparts]

You guys are no fun! I think were most of the way there.  Were using the fuel pump from an 06 as well. I'm sure dans conversion works as well but this way we don't need that fuel rail adapter. I'm keeping photos and progresss for anyone else who is as crazy as us and looking to take the hard way. Thing is we have all this 06 stuff already so it's like why spend more money on the kit?

[Alien]

Do you need 2-62189-01a

I am interested in your progress as I "may" do this someday.

[rsiparts]

If you use the 02 and up fuel pump then yes. Although I believe you could use dans conversion harness, keep your marelli fuel pump and just block off the return. Then change to that fitting and use the Delphi throttle body without te fuel rail. Check on that part number though, I'll try to post the one I got. That's not the right part number, it's really screwy for the changeover year. I got tw wrong one and had to order another.

[Alien]

Thanks, I apreciate any part numbers you come up with. I would prefer to use as many 02 parts as possible, better chance it will fit on my 00 bike? I would prefer not to use the conversion harness if I can make HD parts work. Even if I have to change a few connectors?

[rsiparts]

61408-00A is the fuel check valve/disconnect that threads into the Marelli tank, but allows you to use the 02 and up Delphi fuel line. Since there is no return, you have to plug the other return from the Marelli, however the plug is obsolete in HD's system. Of course, it's just a plug, so I'll just make something in the shop for a plug. Now that we've got most of the parts together I'm hoping to tear into it here in the next couple weeks. Full write up to follow.

[Alien]

Just for your information Pingel makes a Maranelli to carb swap kit. It comes with a fitting that a petcock screws onto and a plug for the return line hole. You might just be able to buy the plug from them or it might be cheap enough to buy rather than the time spent making it?

This is the MM one

http://www.pingelonline.com/magneti_marelli_conversion.htm

and the Delphi one

http://www.pingelonline.com/delphi_conversion.htm

[jaw65]

Hi rsiparts
I have a 99 road king with the mm system.
It  was giving me trouble with a hi flow air cleaner and after market pipes, then i bought and fitted a power commender 111, and had the bike dyno but it still ran like crap.
I then bought and fitted a Accell SLM.The bike now runs great as it auto tunes,
Dont if this helps but might save you a lot of time and money.

[Sonny S.]

I'm doing one on an 01 Ultra. I'm using 02-05 stuff and a TMAX.
I converted the bike to a carb for several years... so now it's a carb to Delphi conversion I guess 

[dunbarton]

I'm doing one on an 01 Ultra. I'm using 02-05 stuff and a TMAX.
I converted the bike to a carb for several years... so now it's a carb to Delphi conversion I guess 

Once it's carb'd, what's the advantage to going to Delphi and at what cost?

[Sonny S.]

Well, IMHO any bike that runs well with a carb should stay with one. THIS particular bike has " special " needs. Yes, it's retarded. I tried endlessly to get both cylinders happy at the same time and it was not working. Im pretty good with carbs too 

So I decided that EFI was my best option to get the bike running it's best.

It's going to come in at about $900 to do the conversion.
Depends how and where you buy your parts. I bought most everything used.
Maybe half that out of pocket after I sell my carbed stuff.