knock retard enough to worry about?

[Jeffd]

so did a little data scan before my computer gave me troubles and is this anything?
it pulled 2* for 2 seconds and it was at ~70kpa and 3000 rpm.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[mayor]

that's likely not two seconds, but two frames.  It doesn't look like the event occured long enough to have been 2 seconds.  can you send me the recording?

[Jeffd]

I thought I did last night but it looks like it was being held up in my computer for some reason. I actually had two but one I stopped after a few minutes because I thought I was hearing audible ping but it did not show up and then my battery decided to die (I was about 2 hours into a ride (had to ride to the closed course) before I started gathering data and had set my computer not to shut off so it drained the battery duh.)

[mayor]

you were right, that was in seconds not frames. 

It looks like you were cruising with lower MAP, then suddenly the load increased (MAP increased) and the timing decreased at the time (but not enough):


my guess is the only reason you didn't see more knock retard events than just that one, was do to not seeing that area much:

you really can't see it well after it was hosted on photobucket, but I circled the knock retard event (right graph) and circled the same area on the left that notes hit count (time recorded at that range). 

[Steve Cole]

That is just ONE knock event. The ECM removes timing then slowly adds it back in, this is normal. Look at the graph and you see it staircase back down to no knock. The ECM first pulled the spark and held it out to make sure there was no more knock, then it reduced the amount of retard and check again for no knock. As long as it see's no knock it will continue this until all spark has been added back but if it see's knock again you will see it jump back up again. So you only have one knock that caused this and then the ECM slowly returning that amount of spark back to normal.

[Jeffd]

so nothing to worry about as far as changing anything in the calibration?  thanks jeff

[mayor]

Depends ..do you ever plan on hitting that area more than this ONE time?

[Jeffd]

I did try and mimick it and could not for some reason.  It seems like it was a typical roll on from mid 70's in 5th or 6th gear nothing out of the ordinary.  I guess I am not sure what was different then the normal way I ride in this instance.  Is it possible to have pinging occur and not have timing pulled?  I swear in the section after this where I get up to the higher 90's mph I was going up hill and rolling on from lower rpms trying to make it ping and I thought I could hear pinging but it does not show it.

[mayor]

I did try and mimick it and could not for some reason.  It seems like it was a typical roll on from mid 70's in 5th or 6th gear nothing out of the ordinary. 

do you ride two up often?  if so, have you done any data runs while two up?  it would help to reach those hi-map if your passenger was extra passengery....if you know what I mean. 

[Jeffd]

LOL actually I think I am going to take the same ride on Monday with my wife. ~145 # so not sure if that qualifies, I sure aint gonna tell her to chow down between now and then lol.

[mayor]

   maybe you can just load her pockets full of loose change. 

[strokerjlk]

you were right, that was in seconds not frames. 

It looks like you were cruising with lower MAP, then suddenly the load increased (MAP increased) and the timing decreased at the time (but not enough):


my guess is the only reason you didn't see more knock retard events than just that one, was do to not seeing that area much:

you really can't see it well after it was hosted on photobucket, but I circled the knock retard event (right graph) and circled the same area on the left that notes hit count (time recorded at that range).

mayor
2985 rpm
57.2 kpa
0.989 lambda
14.52 afr
38.50 41.00 deg timing

I realize this isnt the area in question. but you like that afr / timing in 6 th gear  76 mph?

[mayor]

mayor
2985 rpm
57.2 kpa
0.989 lambda
14.52 afr
38.50 41.00 deg timing

I realize this isn't the area in question. but you like that afr / timing in 6 th gear  76 mph?

boy are you going to get me in trouble with that question.    me personally on the lambda setting, no.  That setting is from the original lambda setting on the base map.  If I had a lambda bike, I would probably run no leaner than .981.  I like the additional margin of error that a slightly richer closed loop setting provides.  ....plus, I still can't get my head wrapped around why someone would like to run that lean on purpose. 

As far as the timing question, around 60 kPa I don't think that timing is all that bad (for this particular build, higher compression ahh...).  I get a little nervous about folks trying to run high advance out to 70-80 kPa (particularly 80 kPa), which is why I asked Jeff to do some data recordings to check his timing. 

[mayor]

Jeff ran another data run today, and here's a few areas that had timing being pulled:







I think the above are great examples of an easy way to check timing, keep the rpm's consistant and vary the load (ok, easier said than done on flat ground).