Narrow Band Then Wide Band Tuning -Dynojet Power Vision

[glens]

Bean does NOT do closed loop.  He tells every customer that he does OPEN loop only.  ... Bean tunes to an end result of 'what is coming out of the pipe" and does NOT tune to make the ECM "Happy" as his tunes will NEVER be closed loopable.

So you've said a few times already.  We all believe you and nobody has even hinted that they disagree or that they think that's wrong to do at times.  Some of us have said that it's a shame to go that route if it's not necessary, since a "happy" ECM is always trustworthy, a joy to use, and it just disappears into the background better as a person roams around the country on their bike.

There simply ARE folks that do NOT wish to have closed loop.  This is an ever present argument on here.  Why one cannot see that some prefer one operating method over another and just leave it alone is beyond me.  Glens and Steve should leave it alone now that they ran off all of the opposing viewpoints.

If I had a part in running anybody off, it would have to have been because they'd rather run off than adequately explain why they take that stance in this day and age.  There are some folks who wish to use a carb over EFI of any type, too.  In my opinion it's largely because they learned something (maybe had a tough time doing it?) and don't have any wish to modernize further.

For Sporty 48...  he is mistaken in listening to Andy and adjusting a Bean tune... it TRULY is NOT adjustable.

Agreed.

Starting fresh out of the box with a TTS base tune, he would NOT have these issues.  But.........  how does sarcasm and belittling someone makes them want to tune the 'right' way with TTS?  How does 'finding' and posting an obvious mistake to discredit another member help Sporty 48 feel comfortable with an offer to help?  Glens... you actually are way worse at arguing YOUR POV that BVBob and Stroker ever were and we KNOW what happened to them.   Lighten up, dammit.

I suppose in some sense I've been sarcastic of Andy and his methods, both of "tuning" and more so his "participation" here.  Over time it's just kind of devolved into a situation where I guess I feel it's necessary.  I'd rather he just man up and back his play than have to resort to addressing him that way.

I don't follow the bit about wanting someone I've been sarcastic to, or that I've belittled, to tune the "right" way with TTS.

That "obvious mistake" was merely a recent example, it's by no means the first, and there was no obvious anything about it.  Such examples have been more common than you evidently know.

I'm not arguing my POV in this thread, am I?  My participation has primarily been comprised of trying to get Andy to follow up and follow through.  And like I said in an earlier post, I don't recall ever seeing BVBob or Stroker argue their points of view.  What I recall is them throwing their opinions out with no discussion, and often throwing them out with barbs.

Also, you [Low] really jumped into the wrong thread with your VALID questions....  This is the ANGRY thread and you aren't being best served here.

If you're referring to any of my participation, I really don't recall posting anything in anger.  About the worst I can remember is maybe replying in kind at times to posts directed toward me.

All of us are letting Andy and Glens get the better of us on this thread.

Could you elaborate on that a little for me?

Just seems all of us NEED an angry thread at all times, with the open/closed loop arguments gone, aren't we all just inventing more arguments?  For the sake of arguing?

Again, I don't see this as an "angry" thread, though I agree with your observation that at times they do seem to be necessary.  Usually it's in the dead of winter when most of us have got a touch of the cabin fever.  Though at any time I'd really like to hear some valid argument for using open-loop nowadays...  It's just not that difficult to accommodate the "happiness" of the ECM.

As to the best method of deriving a vtune, I believe I said pretty much all that needs saying a bit earlier in the thread.  Just avoid as much as possible any sudden throttle transitions.  There's really no need to excessively lug the engine anywhere.  If you have a hard time actually hitting an area just for the sake of doing it, one which you would never (or so very rarely) hit while riding normally, why waste the time on it?  If you can, I guess, then great; you'll have a more complete tune in the end, but if the tune is for you the way you use your bike, I'd say don't waste too much time doing things you wouldn't do otherwise.

Now having had the pleasure of finally getting a bike which takes "lambda" calibrations, I have to say that they're actually harder to do without a monitor.  With the "AFR" calibrations, you can just get into gear early and almost imperceptibly accelerate through the gears, getting very complete coverage.  Just going by "feel" it's easier to hold steady throttle position than it is to hold steady MAP.

[Blackcherry Low]

Low, GOOD JOB!!!   The thing to remember is when dialing in a tune using v-tune is each run piles all together into one tune.  If you end up with a 'problem' spot, it is no big deal to make a run just trying to get that hard to get spot or two.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

Yep, I'll keep you posted, only problem is we won't be doing anymore riding around here again until next spring.  Bummer   But thanks for the advice.

[Sporty 48]

For Sporty 48...  he is mistaken in listening to Andy and adjusting a Bean tune... it TRULY is NOT adjustable.

Agreed.

Ahhhhhhh, you guys are going to drive me sane.
Of course the tune is adjustable.
Any changes to a open loop bike requires tune adjustments.

[glens]

What changes did you make to the bike (apart from ECM calibration) after Bean tuned it?

[Sporty 48]

What changes did you make to the bike (apart from ECM calibration) after Bean tuned it?

A much bigger UNI foam air filter.

[Jeffd]

What changes did you make to the bike (apart from ECM calibration) after Bean tuned it?

A much bigger UNI foam air filter.

Not sure how the Harley sporty uni filter flows but the one I used on my Kaw klr650 did not flow nearly as well as the K&N but probably better at keeping dirt out.

[glens]

I'm not familiar with how the Sportys are set up, but if that filter element is still inside the stock assembly, it might not make much flow difference.  If it did change the flow, however, your Bean tune is shot anyway.  Shoulda done that before you got it tuned in any event.

What do you have for exhaust plumbing?

[Sporty 48]

What do you have for exhaust plumbing?

Exhaust is a D&D Bobcat
Intake is a Forcewinder manifold, UMP (Unique Metal Products) filter housing with UNI 5x7" dual layer oiled foam.

[wurk_truk]

Sporty48.  You seriously are NOT listening.  Open loop or not, one should NOT mess with a tune from Bean.  And if you wish an answer to this once and for all and to shut Andy up on this particular tune...  It is NOT an AFR tune.  Do you get that?  You are simply spinning your wheels messing with a 5 gas tune as if Bean did an AFR tune.  That tune you have was NOT set to lean OR rich or ANYTHING in between.  It is going to show rich and lean spots.   It was set so that the exhaust gases matched up on the Gas Analyzer.   Andy should have known better to send you down this path.  Truly.

The Bobcats were on the Bike when Bean tuned it.  I doubt a filter change 'ruined' the tune.  Looks like, when trying to educate here on HTT, folks get sticks up their asses and poke me with those poop sticks.  I keep harping on  Beans tune, why?  Because it is a 5 gas and looks and acts NOTHING like an AFR tune.  It is NOTHING like doing a Stage 1 with 255s and v-tune.  It operates completely differently.  Bean adjusts the VEs and AFRs to match a known set of exhaust gases.  All of us here and the world in general think AFR, so we tend to lump a 5 gas into that arena.

Listen my Friend, Sporty 48, for a second...  ALL fueling changes will make a pipe sound different.  Mayor and I talked at length about you and we both wish  you the best we can do.  I would like for you to FORGET all the crap in your head and start fresh, OK?  Save that Bean tune somewhere safe, and pick a base cal.   Since you surely DO hear pipe changes, the thing to remember is that change of tone may NOT be what is desired for best running.  I'm old enough and have been around enough, and you may too... actually.  Think on this:  you are fooling around and that is like spending money.  Once the money is spent you convince yourself you see some improvement, when in reality there was none.  I have done that, Glens has done that, everybody has done that.  YOU are doing that now because you have a mental need to justify the fiddling around.

Sporty48,  PLEASE pick a TTS base cal and fudge around with that for a change.  I'm as dumb on here as you are, right?  So...  let us dambasses stick together.  Pick a TTS base cal and try V-Tune.  I am v-tuning a 120r into closed loop...  so we be stupid together...   

[whittlebeast]

Suck, squish, bang, blow.  What part is different?

Lean holes cause drivability issues.  That is the bang part.  We all sniff the exhaust by the best method we have available in the blow part.  Sporty48 used Beans method to get 95% of the fueling and 100% of the timing.

When the last very few lean spots were located, the motor made music.

Beast.

[mayor]

My bet is Sporty48 never messed with 90% of the VEs as Bean had them set.  I also bet he never touched any of the timing curves that Bean set.  AE, DE, you name it is all as Bean set it.  It was just the few lean holes that always seem to show up on the data logs.  These are the only VEs that messed with and fuel was only added.

Suck, squish, bang, blow.  What part is different?

Lean holes cause drivability issues.  That is the bang part.  We all sniff the exhaust by the best method we have available in the blow part.  Sporty48 used Beans method to get 95% of the fueling and 100% of the timing.

When the last very few lean spots were located, the motor made music.

so you went from guessing that he only touched 10% of the ve cells, to knowing that he only adjusted 5% of the ve cells.     I must have missed the calibrations being posted. 

[Jeffd]

Suck, squish, bang, blow.  What part is different?

Lean holes cause drivability issues.  That is the bang part.  We all sniff the exhaust by the best method we have available in the blow part.  Sporty48 used Beans method to get 95% of the fueling and 100% of the timing.

When the last very few lean spots were located, the motor made music.

Beast.

do you have documented actual verified validated proof of this or is it placebo effect?  I have seen that happen on more then one occasion.  Seems like if his bike was running so wonderful this thread would be over a long time ago.  Seems more like it lives for other reasons.

[whittlebeast]

Data logging is all about taking out the "placebo effect".

Beast

[Sporty 48]

Sometimes i get so damn mad here, sometimes I cringe but right now you guys are about as funny as a bunch of professional jokesters.
Good work. Making me doubt my name and age.
See, I came here to get this tuning business down pat, not to be confused and doubtful of every move made.

Wurk Truk,
Trust me I have the original Bean tune on a memory card.
I have not yet defiled the holy grail of dyno tunes.
But I do keep copies for my gratification and tune mutilation tendencies.

Mayor,
You missed nothing. All I did was plug a few lean holes with fuel. Once, I plugged a rear cylinder lean hole a new lean hole showed up in the front cylinder. Manifold characteristics it was. I tried leaning the tune by increasing the AFR before getting all the lean spots out, whoa, decided to slow down return it back and learn some here. Or should I say face the Daily Inquisition. Not by you Mayor, always a gentleman you are, helpful and steady.

Andy, Jeffd,
Very good points, the placebo effect of illusory horsepower gains is certainly in play.
But to me bad gasoline and temperature drops are having the greatest impact on the bikes tune and performance.
It is warming nicely, still lots of snow and the road was frozen earlier but I should get out for a ride very soon.

[HV]

 

[whittlebeast]

Keeping an eye on the tune...

BMP-CGroup-Session1-BMH.avi

This came from one of my "tuner" friends.  Track mapping is fed off his Droid.  The gauges are off his Megasquirt.

Have fun tuning

Beast

[Sporty 48]

Yes, my feeling exactly.
This site no longer suits me.
Bye.