25282-11 Cam Plate and geared drive cams?UPDATED 12/12/11

[02FYRFTR]

Have a set of geared cams for 07 and above twin Cams.  Mounted the standard size inner gears to the cams and attempted to install in the 660 bronze bushed cam plate.  Cam gears are an interference fit to each other and will not assemble.  It appears that H/D may have closed in the center to center distance on the 660 bronze bushings.  anyone out there having same issue.  On the earlier 25282-08 plate assembly went OK in the past.

[autoworker]

Installed Andrews cams in one,no problem.It almost  needed an U/S inner gear.

[02FYRFTR]

I have an undersized inner rear gear coming from S&S.  Andrews grinds cams for T- Man Performance, so I don't think its the cams as they fit into the bushings without a problem.  Thanks for the reply "AutoWorker".  Worked 36 yrs in automotive forging operation.

[Admiral Akbar]

Andrews grinds cams for T- Man Performance, so I don't think its the cams as they fit into the bushings without a problem.

Not only that, but journals are ground on center. If off the gears would fit in one position and not the other.. Now if you can get the gears on, it's the cams fault.  Max

[Powerglides]

The disadvantage of gear drive is that it relies heavily on some of the other supporting components in order to achieve correct fitment. Crankshaft runout being a case in point regarding the outer gears.
The inner gears rely on the accuracy of the hole centres in the support plate. Since H-D use chain drive, which would obviously be tolerant of some deviation of hole centres, I would suspect that they may have a rather large tolerance regarding hole position. Would an OEM or SE camplate fail inspection if the hole centres were a few thou adrift?

[02FYRFTR]

I agree with Powerglide's comments but in the past the 25282-08 plates did not present an issue when installing gear drive.  Build has trued, plugged, welded flywheels assembly with "H" beam rods and runout less than .001", cases were Timken retrofitted by Darkhorse and allign bobre of pinion and sprocket shaft bores checked.  I will post the results with the undersize rear gear that is due today.  Andrews, I believe also makes the gears for S&S so I really have a difficult time placing the onus on them.

[autoworker]

02FYRFTR,20 yrs. manufacturing automatic transmissions.I shut one plant down a few yrs.ago  .Hope this one holds out 10 more.The industry has changed so much over the years.Some for the better some not.

Yes,HD does hold pretty good tolerances considering they didn't design it for GD cams and don't sell them.

In my mind,if they moved the centers closer in the camplate the bearing journals on the inner end of the cams would not ride parallel in the inner bearings and would not make full contact along the length of the needles.

If you still have fitment problems after using the u/s gear I would measure the fixed size inner gear across pins and compare that measurement against the gear man. spec.Maybe it is o/s and not to spec./print.
I believe Andrews does make the gears for S&S also.

Hope it works out for you.

[Jeffd]

rumor had it a couple years ago that S&S started outsourcing a potion of their gear drives from an overseas maker. At the tiem there was a way to tell the ones andrews made and the ones that came from overseas but I can not remember what it was.. 

[02FYRFTR]

The standard size gear was purchased as part of a complete set suppiled by Andrews.  The undersize gear arrived today, the cams assembled into the plate but zero backlash and would not rotate freely.  Installed roller drive cams and finished up the build.  Need a .002"~.003" undersize gear to make it work.  Or perhaps the next plate will be at the high end of the tolerance for distance between bushing centers.

[04FLHP]

02FYRFTR,20 yrs. manufacturing automatic transmissions.I shut one plant down a few yrs.ago  .Hope this one holds out 10 more.The industry has changed so much over the years.Some for the better some not.

Yes,HD does hold pretty good tolerances considering they didn't design it for GD cams and don't sell them.

In my mind,if they moved the centers closer in the camplate the bearing journals on the inner end of the cams would not ride parallel in the inner bearings and would not make full contact along the length of the needles.
If you still have fitment problems after using the u/s gear I would measure the fixed size inner gear across pins and compare that measurement against the gear man. spec.Maybe it is o/s and not to spec./print.
I believe Andrews does make the gears for S&S also.

Hope it works out for you.

Perhaps this would account for some of the inner cam bearing failures and why some go bad while others never have a problem.

[Powerglides]

I think this would be unlikely. Bear in mind that we are only talking about a couple of thou here. The cams are slightly over 3" long between the bearing journals, so the angularity would be miniscule.
The half compliment INA bearings, by their very design, are more tolerant of misalignment than the full compliment Torringtons that we use for greater reliability.

[02FYRFTR]

Attempted to install the geared cams in a 2007 stock cam plate with 17,000 miles on it.  No go !!  Will call Andrews in the morning and see what I can find out for pitch circle tolerance.  I have another new  gear set that I can try also.

[Powerglides]

Do you know what roller diameters we should use on these, to check the effective diameter?

[02FYRFTR]

Andrews customer service , not the most convenient source for information but still trying.  About five minutes ago i decided to use the rear gear from another new four piece set that I had on the shelf from Andrews.  You guessed it, the cams with gears installed smoothly in either the bushed or parent metal cam plate.  Appears the issue is in the pitch circle of the first set of gears that I was installing.  I will post the gage pin diameter and the correct gear diameter over the gage pins when I get the information from Andrews.

[02FYRFTR]

Gage pin diameter for inner cam gears for 2007~2012 is .125".  The diameter of the standard inner gears over the gage pins is 2.2461"~!2.2451".  I received a RMA for the inner gears and they are on their way back to Andrews to check them out.

[autoworker]

If you still have fitment problems after using the u/s gear I would measure the fixed size inner gear across pins and compare that measurement against the gear man. spec.Maybe it is o/s and not to spec./print.
I believe Andrews does make the gears for S&S also.

Hope it works out for you.

I am a blind squirrel.Did I find a nut?

[Powerglides]

Gage pin diameter for inner cam gears for 2007~2012 is .125".  The diameter of the standard inner gears over the gage pins is 2.2461"~!2.2451".  I received a RMA for the inner gears and they are on their way back to Andrews to check them out.

Thanks for that. If you get the opportunity, could you find out the measurement over the pins for the two outer gears? Never know when this information may come in useful.

[02FYRFTR]

Gears cam back from Andrews.  A mystery as they sent two new gears in unopened packages without any explanation.  Will call tomorrow and see waht I can find out.