2012 TTS Tuning with engine changes

[Thumper Buttercup]

We are not looking at cooking the engine but taking a good tune
and ride during the hot part of the day and get the engine normal
hot not excessive hot, then start the vtunes.

Or my thought is just spend a full day of vtunes and get the best
data we can and go from there, we need to hit the lower and upper
areas better so our next day will be a full day of vtune and go from
there.

Thanks Mike


Jeff, Im a bit more than you but I refuse to give out the other data

Did you notice a difference without the lowers?  I am thinking of pulling them
and see if it helps, but I want to get the tuning fixed first.  Then we are setup
for running with the lowers when they go back on.

[Jeffd]

lowers on or off make no real difference on mpg for me but they make a tremendous difference  in heat reduction.

[Ohio HD]

A full dress touring bike ridden 2 up at interstate speeds getting mid 40's, I'm curious as well.  I can see lighter bikes with less windoad, but a fairing bike with lowers?   

Kim is asking if you guys are saying she is FAT


Running the 48N cams, I have not checked the compression on this new build yet, plugs look good, no gas in the oil.


Heck I would be happy with around the 43 we got yesterday when we were running the easy route and maybe 41 on the 65 mph route.  This bike use to pull 35-38 on the interstate.

Heck this bike pulling us and a fully loaded trailer averaged 32-35 hauling ass on the interstate.

For what it's worth, I'm running 48 cams in my '08 SG. Average riding, no interstate, I average anywhere from 38 to 43 MPG. I check my mileage regularly, and fill up generally after 150 to 175 miles. When the bike was stone stock, similar riding would have gotten me 44 to 47 MPG. That's riding single, and I'm 6'4" and 275 lb. Not trying to confuse your issue, just give you another bikes mileage to consider.

[mayor]

I'm getting right around 38-40 mpg hi-way cruising at 3,200 rpm single up with my '09 48H equipped SG.  I can get better if I slow down, in fact I just got almsot 46 riding two up......but i was mostly riding at 2,200 rpm in 6th gear.  My average with normal riding single up is right around 42 mpg.   

[Ohio HD]

I'm getting right around 38-40 mpg hi-way cruising at 3,200 rpm single up with my '09 48H equipped SG.  I can get better if I slow down, in fact I just got almsot 46 riding two up......but i was mostly riding at 2,200 rpm in 6th gear.  My average with normal riding single up is right around 42 mpg.   

So we're not very different in mileage. And not that I beat the old girl, but I regularly shift in the upper 3,000 to 4,000 range when on back roads. I live in a rural area, so we have a lot of 2 lane state routes with out much traffic or population. I don't document my mileage and have an average over time, but if I had to pick a value, I'd say it was 40 MPG.

[Thumper Buttercup]

I think we are getting great mileage in the 55mph area, our last part of our loop is about 119 miles, with the last 20 being at 65 mph, we have been averaging over 40 mpg on that one with this last run being 43.2, a hour of that ride I kept the bike right at 56 mph with just a couple changes going through towns.

So lets concentrate on the 65-67 mph area or 2749+ rpm and then the 75-77 mph area that s  3174+, the 65 area is not doing too bad we are close to 40 there but I would like to tweak it if we can also.

Just my thoughts on the trouble areas.




Mike,

    We are going to Vtune on Sunday, I'm going to take the 43 cal and change
the idle like you did the 42 cal and set it up to Vtune, we are going to get
all the data we can and get it right.

     Then we set up for data and will take a 120+ mile ride at 55 (strict) and
see what she will do at that speed, filling at same pump.

     The next day of riding we will do a 65 mph run under the same conditions
and then a 75 mph run again under the same conditions and using the same
pump.

     We will try and get the best data we can and see where we are.  I'm open
to any suggestions.


Steve, anything you can add that I am missing your input would be greatly
appreciated also.


Mike.....one last question, is that AFR in the whole 14.6 area or just in the
trouble area's?



Thanks again Guys.

[Steve Cole]

The 5 speed bike has a lower gear ratio in the primary drive, so that causes the higher engine RPM at speed. Both the 5 and 6 speeds are 1:1 in high gear. The 6 speed due to it helical cut gear is supposed to use more power but I'm not sure there is enough there to be measured on a chassis dyno. So the question for you needs to be how much of your riding is in town and how much do you really use the lower gears in the transmission. If your not worried about corner to corner speeds and your going to be using the bike for Touring it may be well worth the money to move the primary ratio up like the later bike to help slow the motor down at highway speeds. The stock ratio for a 5 speed bike is 1.44 and a stock 6 speed bike is 1.353. This will slow the engine about 2 -300 RPM at highway speeds.

You could do the same thing by changing the belt drive around but I do not know what parts you can get for them. Running my 2011 RG @ 70 gets me right at 3000 RPM as I recall. Jeff could let us know what he see's on his and then Thumper can check his to get a few numbers together to compare. Removing the lower will help the heat numbers for sure as it let more air to the engine but I've not seen or heard of it helping or hurting mileage. My mileage numbers  on my bike running 89 octane averages 48 mpg and with the new tuning I've been playing with for 87 octane it has dropped to 46 mpg. I run with about 300 lbs of combined total weight over stock bike when testing so I have someway to compare apples to apples for testing.

[Thumper Buttercup]

Steve,

   You were posting when I did, I wish I had thought about the change
when we just changed the pulleys and belt.  I guess I could drop in
a Baker 6 speed or pickup a HD gear set and go from there.

    I've stayed away from the compression tester this time but I am
going out to the shop to do a cold and warmed up compression test
to see where this build is at just over 1800 miles.

We are also going to add a 70 mph test to our plans and see how
these speeds vs mpg do on this rig.

[Thumper Buttercup]

Compression update,

Nothing wrong here

Cold  F- 210  R- 210

Hot (200 degrees at sparkplug with IR)  F-200   R- 205

Looks good to me.  These heads were right at 84cc with
zero deck height we measured them at buildup.

No fuel smell in the oil at all.

[Jeffd]

On mine 70mph=2800RPM and 3000rpm=77mph approximately

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[1FSTRK]

Compression update,

Nothing wrong here

Cold  F- 210  R- 210

Hot (200 degrees at sparkplug with IR)  F-200   R- 205

Looks good to me.  These heads were right at 84cc with
zero deck height we measured them at buildup.

No fuel smell in the oil at all.

What is the altitude where you live?

[Thumper Buttercup]

Compression update,

Nothing wrong here

Cold  F- 210  R- 210

Hot (200 degrees at sparkplug with IR)  F-200   R- 205

Looks good to me.  These heads were right at 84cc with
zero deck height we measured them at buildup.

No fuel smell in the oil at all.

What is the altitude where you live?

916 Feet

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK,

We are getting out tomorrow for VTuning, now once a block turns green you are done right?

Would it help doubling our time on a run and try and get more data in each block??

Mike, I took your 043 cal and the idle info from your Vtune 042 and made the below Vtune 044 cal for tomorrow.

https://www.box.com/s/5be448c0c5e8bd724fe8

If all goes well we will go do a 55mph only 130+ mile data run after we are done with vtunes and go from there.

Thanks for all your input guys and a big thank-you again to Mayor for all his time he has put into our bike tune.

[Steve Cole]

The GREEN fill color only let's you know that there is enough information stored in that area to make a good decision from, NOT that your done. There are limits within the ECM so that is why it is test, modify and repeat. Each time it moves closer and closer to where you tell it you want it. I typically go on short rides to get things green then make the changes. Typically no longer than 1/2 hour of riding varying the conditions will get you plenty of data.

[Thumper Buttercup]

The GREEN fill color only let's you know that there is enough information stored in that area to make a good decision from, NOT that your done. There are limits within the ECM so that is why it is test, modify and repeat. Each time it moves closer and closer to where you tell it you want it. I typically go on short rides to get things green then make the changes. Typically no longer than 1/2 hour of riding varying the conditions will get you plenty of data.

Thanks Steve,

We'll see how it goes tomorrow.  Don't work too hard.

[mayor]

We are getting out tomorrow for VTuning, now once a block turns green you are done right?

for best results, try getting a purple box in the last green cell to the right of each rpm row as well. 

no problem with the help Mark and Kim.  Happy to help.   

[Thumper Buttercup]

We are getting out tomorrow for VTuning, now once a block turns green you are done right?

for best results, try getting a purple box in the last green cell to the right of each rpm row as well. 

no problem with the help Mark and Kim.  Happy to help.   

Thanks Mike,

   I see now I've been falling down on the data collection.  We'll get it done
right tomorrow.

[Coyote]

When I did mine it was 45 mins with a display. More time riding, more data collected, more cells hit.     If you are doing it blind, lots of different roads, uphill, downhill and ride time are your friend.

[mayor]

Mark, I finally got a chance to review your last four data run (all on cal-043).  The recordings didn't look too bad at all, and the worst one (recording 4-043) was mostly limited to the same rpm and MAP ranges.  There were a few areas that could be ve related, but I only adjusted timing on the attached vtune cal (run this one instead of -044). 

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Thumper Buttercup]

I looked at that last vtunedata 038 and even tho I hit a bunch of counts
in some of the end cells I never got a purple box in the end row.

Got the file for tomorrow.


Hey Coyote,  I am running a monitor, no way I could do this in the
blind, it helps a lot, I even run it on the Data runs to know it's still working
and I've not lost contact.  Thanks for the input.

[mayor]

the purple box indicates that you reached the maximum allowable MAP in that cell, which gives the vtune software the ability to extend the cells from there (as long as it likes the data).  Having those purple cells just makes sure that we are less likely to have issues with the 75-80 kPa load ranges due to lack of vtuned cells. 

[Steve Cole]

the purple box indicates that you reached the maximum allowable MAP in that cell, which gives the vtune software the ability to extend the cells from there (as long as it likes the data).  Having those purple cells just makes sure that we are less likely to have issues with the 75-80 kPa load ranges due to lack of vtuned cells.

This is not quite right. The purple marker only says the average MAP value in the last cell was over 80 kPa. Since data is shared with 4 cells you can get an average that is less than 80 kPa and since we are trying to extend data we want to have the average about 80.

[mayor]

makes sense..the four cell average may explain why some of my purple boxes wouldn't extend on my vtunes.  For clarity though, the two sentences I wrote were not necassarily related.  My second sentence had to do with me seeing a few knock retard events happening in the 75-80 kPa areas, which were in % of throttle VE cells missed by Mark's vtuning...which would have likely been capture able with vtuning.

[Thumper Buttercup]

Hot is the word for today, it was 95 degrees when we did the last run.

Steve, Mike,  could not get a couple blocks to go purple and your explanation
is why, I was concentrating on the end block not the ones before it.

A lot of pinging today, the hotter it got the worse it got, there was a couple
purple blocks I could not get in the final runs because of pinging.  We did
four runs 45,46,47,48.

I made a new folder with just today's files.

https://www.box.com/s/553020a063cd3cb7dfd2


45Data & Vtune





46Data & Vtune





47Data & Vtune





48Data & Vtune

[1FSTRK]

Have you done any data logs when just riding normal? If so does your bike always run this hot?