And they say our AMF bikes had low quality control?

[easyricer]

I've got an 04 Roadking on my table right now, I'm building the motor up to 96ci and doing a complete cam chest replacement. I took the heads home with me to do the valve job and just clean up the porting a little bit. (it's for a buddy of mine who has been complaining about a weak motor out on the road.)
When I got home tonight, I did some welding and a few other minor things for his job then took the heads apart. Under the valves I found his power problem.... the heads were choked down! There was a 1/8 lip around both valve seats where the aluminum should have been ground off and the ports smoothed out. Can't get air in, can't get air out, no wonder he couldn't get the bike up a hill! This is the first set of Harley heads I've worked on where I didn't have to weld material in to build reversion dams. I had almost 1/4 of material that I had to remove from the exhaust ports just to see a NORMAL exhaust port.
Granted this might be normal for a NEW twinkie, but it just ain't passing for something that is gonna leave MY shop with my name on it!
I think I'll keep my SHOVEL!
EASY

[96flhpi]

Hey speak for yourself with that AMF talk.  My '82 has nothing to do w/ AMF (yeah right).  Even supposed to have a badge on the front fender to celebrate.  Therefore I'm better than you

Seriously, twinkies scare me.  Even the ones that come out the factory the way they're supposed to be - pressed together cranks and non-such.  Had a blast when I rented one once but you know, no long time ownership worries there.

[easyricer]

I've been complaining about lower manufacturing standards for about 10 years now. I've been into a lot of heads but these were by far the worst yet. No sign in the ports that they even attempted to remove excess material. (and what's worse is someone actually picked these things up on the assembly line and bolted them down!)
EASY

[96flhpi]

It's more than bikes too.  I'm a guitar tech and regularly see very high end instruments than shouldn't have been let out the factory - that's the equivalent of a $25-50K bike.  I wonder if now the Japanese make fun of American factories that sacrifice quality control for a wider profit margin. 

American gtrs and bikes share a similar history manufacturing-wise - threat of Asian imports in late 60's & 70's, rep of poor quality during that time, being bought out by large corps (CBS owned Fender and Norlin owned Gibson around the same time AMF had HD), and quality affecting cost cutting now.

Thank goodness we still have some quality manufacturing in the US to defend our reputation but it really seems, at least in the bike and gtr worlds, that it's up to those in the small shops, who, like you said, have their name on their work, to put things right.

[76shuvlinoff]

This is something I came across a while back and saved just to read once in a while. I can't speak as to it's source or accuracy ....but I enjoy it.

 

American Machine and Foundry was founded in 1936 and headquartered in Richmond, VA.
AMF made parts for Harley-Davidson before they bought the H-D company in 1968 and they continued to cast the engine and transmission cases for H-D long after the buy back in 1981.  AMF also built the H-D assembly plant in York PA which all modern Harley Davidson motorcycles owe their existence to. 

  When Harley-Davidson was under the AMF flag they were still made in the USA in the same plants by the same workers.  AMF introduced modern manufacturing processes to H-D.  The AMF quality issues were more related to assembly than to the parts they used. They experienced growing pains as production was increased.

Among other things AMF was responsible for alternators, disc brakes, mag wheels and belt drives in the H-D line. The fantasy that AMF was an evil corporate conglomerate trying to kill the American Dream was purely a marketing strategy by Willie G. Davidson.

   The "Shovelhead" is a Harley-Davidson because it was designed and being produced by H-D before AMF bought them out.  The next generation EVO, "Evolution" engine is actually an AMF as it was designed by AMF before H-D was bought back by the management team.  Among informed enthusiasts, riders, bikers, RUBs, 1%ers, and nasty bastards the EVO still reigns as the best-engineered air-cooled engine in Harley's history.

   The next step during the EVO years was the water-cooled V-Rod "Revolution" engine which I believe was designed by Porsche. The hardcore purists still turn their nose up at it because metric (read Japanese) motorcycles are water-cooled and no bad-ass rides a water cooled bike.
   
Other worthless information:
The AMF company was bought by MINSTAR Inc. in 1985.  MINSTAR is a US company based in Minnesota.  In 2005 an Italian company, Quibica, bought the AMF brand and started doing business as Quibica-AMF which is still producing sporting supplies.

[79FLH]

   My point of view from an American Manufacturing facility...  The Company I work for was bought out by our competition in 2000, My Plant had 275 people workin here in  24/7..  In 2009 we were gutted down to 35 employees on the floor. 3 years into this restructuring of the buissness & orders are starting to pick up, Management refuses to bring back any laid-off employees, all while expecting 35 people to produce the same amount of material that was put out by 275 people...  Point is, something HAS to give,  & unfortunately, from what I see, Quality has gone right down the "Potty mouth"ter !!   just my 2 cents, 

[easyricer]

Have any of ya'll read "Donny's Unauthorized Technical Guide to Harley-Davidson, 1936 to Present" by Donnie Petersen? Really good reading. it shows a point of view that I never saw and contradicts what popular belief has been for years. I was just a little kid during the AMF years so I had no first hand experience. This put a really good light on it for me from someone who was there. He has a few other books out as well and he is the first writer I found who shares the same experiences that I had with the "growing pains" that the Twinkie offered.
EASY

[Skin]

I bought a new Shovel in'77 and rode that bike for many years without issues. Probably oe of the best bikes I've owned. I now have 3 Shovels, a '69, '70 and a '73 and all 3 are good bikes. My '05 has been a good bike also. I think it all boils down to perception and what you've been led to believe.

[chopper]

99% of the guys who bad mouth the AMF bikes never owned one, never rode own, and weren't even riding back then.  It's become the way to "impress" others and show you're a "real biker".

[Reddog74usa]

Man they must think I'm a real dummy when I roll up on this

[Lew]

DUMMY!!..not 

[kink04fxd]

I would love to be a dummy on that FXE!

[chopper]

Man they must think I'm a real dummy when I roll up on this
  especially when they ask "Is that a Sportster?"

[amf 71flh]

The only problem with AMF bikes were the people who worked on them. Any plumber, roofer, or whatever thought they were mechanics back in the 70's and hacked these bikes to pieces. Todays machines require the same investment in tools and skills as our AMF bikes did, but at least the black box scares most of the landscapers away from wrenching on them.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Lew]

Man, you got that right!  I'm working on one now that was owned by an unemployed diesel mechanic.  I think I know now why he's unemployed..HACKED   

That's a mighty clean sporty motor!  Where's the bailing wire and grease? 

[amf 71flh]

This AMF motor shows what good assembly methods and just giving a "Potty mouth" about your workmanship can accomplish. These old bikes have earned all the respect we can give them. Remember, we are just the caretakers for these classics for a short time, for someday, 100 years from now, people will just stare in awe.


                                                AMF SAVED Harley-Davidson

[Reddog74usa]

Your right on it Chopper. They see the 1200 on the air cleaner and ask if it's a Sportster 

[easyricer]

Most of the Spaceships I work on today will be toasters 20 years from now, Ol Betsie will still be toolin along!
EASY

[96flhpi]

Most of the Spaceships I work on today will be toasters 20 years from now, Ol Betsie will still be toolin along!
EASY

Amen brother!  Used that line on a bud with a TC when he said "you're always fiddling with that thing" - "yep, and I still will be when you're TC is scrap."

[76shuvlinoff]

Think about it, how much time is spent fiddling and how much time is spent repairing?
I won't deny there have been issues but I've probably spent 10 fold (money AND time) fiddling over repairing.

The majority of my "problems" have been because I couldn't leave it alone. 


.....and I bet that's true for every other generation of H-D as well.

[96flhpi]

Think about it, how much time is spent fiddling and how much time is spent repairing?
I won't deny there have been issues but I've probably spent 10 fold (money AND time) fiddling over repairing.

The majority of my "problems" have been because I couldn't leave it alone. 


.....and I bet that's true for every other generation of H-D as well.

In the 5 years I've owned it the only repairs my '82 has needed was a new alternator and fixing a major trans mainshaft leak.  Everything else has been fixing my mistakes doing the above or routine maintenance or redoing routine maintenace because I'm trying to squeeze a little more out of it - can't leave it alone syndrome, I've got it too.

[amf 71flh]

still going............ my wife thinks I'm nuts!!!

click on pic for larger view.

anyone know a good floor guy?

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[dusty1]

Big difference between fiddling & repairing.Guess i have the "cant leave it alone syndrome too".I didnt know about quality problems with the TC's,i knew their was a reason i dont care for em though.From some of the Evo's i've seen,i wonder how much longer they'll be on the road.Bad oil leaks,bad chrome,rough wiring,chipped paint,etc.I ride the hell out of my old shovel & have no oil leaks & rarely have any problems at all.Thats probably a result of "fiddling" though.I have a friend who rides a TC & he calls the Evo's,"the new shovel" because they leak oil & breakdown.Its not the bike's fault,its the guy who's ridin it,maintenance is required on any bike.Most Pan/shovel riders that i've known over the years have one thing in common that a lot of other bikers dont:an immense PRIDE in their ride.

[CaptMike]

Most of the Spaceships I work on today will be toasters 20 years from now, Ol Betsie will still be toolin along!
EASY

The Absolute Truth.

Man...  that's a Super Nice Super Glide (above).  In my opinion there's never been another Muffler that sounded like those when they were knocked out.

AMF wise?  I've seen more than one Sportster that had machined aluminum in the cam cover (from where the engine was assembled with the Crap inside the case).   My luck with a new 1977 Shovel was not to gooood.   Mine came from the factory with a .125" ring gap and the dealer kept telling me it wasn't broken in yet.   At 20k miles the rods started getting noisy and it was History.  Out the door it cost $3640.00 at Kirby's in Columbia SC.

[79FLH]

amf71flh , I think the floor looks awesome just the way you finished it !!  Reddog , that is one sweet lookin ride !!