Low speed wobble on brand new 2012 Heritage

[apehair]

When I decelerate from about 40 mph my front end wobbles until I hit 30 mph.  Much more pronounced if I take my hands of the handlebars.  First thought is to tighten fork stem nut, as on FX front ends, but I'm not too familiar with FL front ends. 

Bike is brand new.  Just hit 200 miles.  Just noticed the wobble.  I felt it a little at higher speeds, but I thought it was was due to the rain grooves in the road. 

The rental Heritage I road last week did not have any kind of wobble. 

What do you guys think?

Thanks,

ape

[rbabos]

Tire.
Ron

[Ohio HD]

Agree with Ron, if you feel it at higher speed too, probably a tire. Loose steering neck bearings usually are only felt at low speeds.

[hombre912]

It sounds like the neck bearing to me.
The bike is new, so why ponder the question.
Take it back to the dealer and let them sort it out.

[garyajaz]

dealer=they all do that.
or the famous it didnt do it when i rode it.
after having 4 new harleys over the years
i have seen them do it time and time again
i consider the warentee junk unless the damn thing explodes on test ride.
will continue to buy used ones now.

check standard stuff, tire pressure,
wheel alignment.
rear wheel in swing arm position,
guessing it did it from day one?
some of the "set up and delivery" charges just more profit.
my 03 came with a very loose primary chain.

they serviced it?
when i got home i heard the clanking.  took it back for warentee,
3 hours old, they said primary adj was not in warentee cause its a wear item.  i mentioned set up charges?
they stood fast and did not adjust the damn chain.
i could and did do it.  but ya think i gonna buy another new bike from them?

[Ohio HD]

dealer=they all do that.
or the famous it didnt do it when i rode it.
after having 4 new harleys over the years
i have seen them do it time and time again
i consider the warentee junk unless the damn thing explodes on test ride.
will continue to buy used ones now.

check standard stuff, tire pressure,
wheel alignment.
rear wheel in swing arm position,
guessing it did it from day one?
some of the "set up and delivery" charges just more profit.
my 03 came with a very loose primary chain.

they serviced it?
when i got home i heard the clanking.  took it back for warentee,
3 hours old, they said primary adj was not in warentee cause its a wear item.  i mentioned set up charges?
they stood fast and did not adjust the damn chain.
i could and did do it.  but ya think i gonna buy another new bike from them?

Ha, ha, no! I don't either, have only bought 2 new vehicles in my life for me, a '79 Trans Am, and an '06 Silverado 4x4. All other cars, trucks, bikes, used. No HD dealer head ache what so ever. I've had a few run in's with Chevy on warranty, but if you push them back, they usually take care of it. Last one was the front wheel bearing assy on the front of the '06 Silverado. I had two days of warranty left this past April when I took it in. They did their best to say there was nothing wrong with it. I asked them to put that in writing, document the day, time, vehicle mileage, and what they thought was the reason for the scrapping noise at the left front wheel, and loose feel in the steering wheel, and who is making that assessment, and I would leave.

They fixed it.   


Added:
I had already jacked the truck up and saw the wheel was loose, and that the wheel bearing was the cause, but didn't want to say that. Not give them ammo to use. About 4,000 miles later, the left went bad, I replaced it with a Timken assembly myself. Took about an hour, never could see why they resisted so much.

[Buffalo]

  Take the POS back!! Insist that they fix it! If they (Dealer) refuses, contact HD, tell them and file a complaint. If they even hesitate, contact your Attourney General, BBB etc.
Its bad enough that HD has decided to skip all the necessary steps to assure the customer of a quality product, but letting these bikes go out in UNSAFE state is way beyond irresponsible.
There's already a huge list of people who have encountered the same issues on similar bikes, your dealer must know (or is totally stupid)about this.
Neck bearings can cause steering wobbles at any speed over walking to wide open depending on tension set. Loose will usually show up at lower speeds or decelaration, too tight can show up at much higher speeds. BOTH CONDITIONS ARE VERY DANGEROUS!!  FWIW Buffalo

[apehair]

Thanks for the tips, guys.

I checked the fork stem nut (or whatever it's called on an FL front end), and it was super loose.  Tightened it down to about 70 ft lbs (I usually tighten the FL nut to 95), and will take it for a test ride later.  Did the fall-away test, which has always been a wee bit vague for me because of all the cables (which I did not remove), and it felt like it was in the ballpark. 

If it feels good at low speed, I'll slowly take it up to higher speeds and check it for weaving there.

I appreciate the quick help. 

ape

[Bike31]

There's more to the adjustment than just cranking on the nut.

Here's a summary of the fall away test for the FLSTC with the bike off the ground and level. Remove the windshield and clutch cable end from the bar:

Check steering head bearing tension.
a. Rotate the front end from steering stop to steering
stop three times. Center front end moving from the
left steering stop to the center.
b. Tap the fender on right side toward the left steering
stop until the front end begins to fall -away by itself.
Label this point on the marking material.
c. Rotate the front end from steering stop to steering
stop three times. Center front end moving from the
right steering stop to the center.
d. Repeat steps a through d until the points become
consistent.
e. Measure distance between the two marks. This is the
fall -away measurement.
6. The distance between the fall -away marks must be 1.0-
2.0 in. (25.4 -50.8 mm).
a. If the distance is more than 2.0 in. (50.8 mm), proceed
to step 7. (Nut too tight = loosen the nut and restest).
b. If it is less than 1.0 in. (25.4 mm), proceed to step 8.

If yours is loose (most likely scenario to cause decel wobble ~40mph if all else is ok), then Step 8:

Distance is less than 1.0 in. (25.4 mm).
a. See Figure 1 -41 in the SM. Loosen the pinch bolt (4).
b. Loosen lower fork stem pinch bolts.
c. Tighten the fork stem bolt (2) slightly.
d. Tighten the upper fork stem pinch bolt to 25 -30 ft-lbs
(33.9 -40.7 Nm)
e. Tighten the lower fork stem pinch bolts to 55 -60 ft-lbs
(74.6 -81.4 Nm).
f. Repeat procedure to determine if fall -away is within
specifications

[FATMAN]

   FWIW, I chased the same thing on my '02 FatBoy when it was new.  Verified that everything with the neck was correct, tire was good, etc.  Always shook 40-30mph decel if I let go of the bars.  No shake anywhere or anytime else.  I think it's the geometry of the bike.  32 degree rake, the FL front end, forks in front of stem, big tire, etc.   Bike is straight and true at cruise or speed.  Can't feel anything 40-30 decel if I have just one hand holding the bars.
   As mentioned, take it back and have them check it out but I'd be willing to bet it's a characteristic that won't go away.  At nearly 50K miles, several front tires and always well maintained, mine will do it every time.

[Admiral Akbar]

Congratulations on getting the Heritage.. Got enough lean angle for ya??

Max

[strokerjlk]

   FWIW, I chased the same thing on my '02 FatBoy when it was new.  Verified that everything with the neck was correct, tire was good, etc.  Always shook 40-30mph decel if I let go of the bars.  No shake anywhere or anytime else.  I think it's the geometry of the bike.  32 degree rake, the FL front end, forks in front of stem, big tire, etc.   Bike is straight and true at cruise or speed.  Can't feel anything 40-30 decel if I have just one hand holding the bars.
   As mentioned, take it back and have them check it out but I'd be willing to bet it's a characteristic that won't go away.  At nearly 50K miles, several front tires and always well maintained, mine will do it every time

I have never rode one that didnt have some kinda shake,pull wobble,or something going on.

[04 SE Deuce]

  Hey Rick,  The smoke must have cleared if your out ridden a new bike, congrats.
A lot of bikes with wobble the bars/front end on a no hand decel typically in the speed range you stated.  I've got a 1986 VFR750 that does it a fair amount of the time..one finger tip on the bar eliminates it.  The Deuce does not normally have a hands off wag unless the tires and wear on each induces it.  Typically only happens when the tire/s are worn out,  but occasionally I get a tire that is more prone to wobble even though the same brand/model and size installed before and after it does not do it.  My experience is that the front has the most influence but a worn rear or synergy of wear front to rear will cause it.  A lot of good suggestions to check have been given but my bet is the tire/s are the culprit..once you wear out and replace the stock rags with premium tires things will improve.  I like E3's (despite what Max says),  should be a few good options in the sizes to fit your new bike. 

  Thanks for coming out to ride on our trip.  Rick

[Bike31]

New '12 FLSTC here...no wobble on decel so far. Owned a '10 Road Glide...shook like a dog passing worms until the fall-away was corrected. Had two Ultra's (2000 and '11)...no wobble there after 1000's of miles. So, it may be something else besides the front bearings. Which now I assume by the OP's description is very tight. Front and rear wheel balance and runout can come into play. Think spoke wheels out of adjustment?

Re the good obs regarding lean angle...true, not as much as some other Harleys, can be around 5-8 deg less than the FLH's due to the floorboards and unadjusted suspension settling. Firming up the shocks can help with the latter.  Floorboards could be narrowed and trimmed at the rear. Might happen on it's own via wear. There are other rides more suitable for higher cornering angles.

[apehair]

Congratulations on getting the Heritage.. Got enough lean angle for ya??

LOL.  Of course not!  But I've decided to leave the leaning to my Triumph Daytona, and use my Harley for what a Harley does best.  That said, I've firmed up the suspension and ordered the peg kit to replace the floorboards.  And I'm looking into ordering different fork internals and perhaps a shotgun air suspension that lets me raise the rear an inch.   :-) 

ape

[apehair]

There's more to the adjustment than just cranking on the nut.

Here's a summary of the fall away test for the FLSTC with the bike off the ground and level. Remove the windshield and clutch cable end from the bar:

...

Thanks, 31.  I've done that fallaway adjustment an awful lot of times.  On my bike and the bikes of friends.  I've kinda got a short-cut that I use, so I don't have to remove all the cables.  I do it by feel, now.  Once I get it where I want it, I adjust the nut to a higher torque than the factory recommends.  Have never had any problems.  But since I'm now to the Heritage, I'm being a little more conservative. 

If my short-cut doesn't work, I'll take the time to do the procedure by the book.  Or, as Deuce says, wait till the tires wear out.  :-)

ape

[Bike31]

Sounds good. I wasn't questioning your reasons, just felt it was worth noting that the FLS** instructions (above) that refer to tightening or loosing the fork stem bolt on those models, were markedly different from the FX***, FLSTSB, and FLH** series.

Those models do require the torque you applied to the locking fork stem nut that holds the bearing adjustment nut underneath. A pinch bolt holds and keeps the stem bolt from turning on your ride. I'm guesssing that stem bolt requires substantially less torque than you applied to provide the right bearing pre-load and fall-away.

The FLSTC is new to me so I'm learning the maintenance proceedures as well.

[apehair]

Sounds good. I wasn't questioning your reasons, just felt it was worth noting that the FLS** instructions (above) that refer to tightening or loosing the fork stem bolt on those models, were markedly different from the FX***, FLSTSB, and FLH** series.

Those models do require the torque you applied to the locking fork stem nut that holds the bearing adjustment nut underneath. A pinch bolt holds and keeps the stem bolt from turning on your ride. I'm guesssing that stem bolt requires substantially less torque than you applied to provide the right bearing pre-load and fall-away.

The FLSTC is new to me so I'm learning the maintenance proceedures as well.

Gotcha.  In that case I'll take a closer look at the instructions.  Might be that my shortcut (which is just doing it by feel, based on past experience) might not work the same way for the FL front end.

ape

[strokerjlk]

FATMAN hit the nail on the head. 32 deg rake and a FL front end.
Looks cool,sits cool, dosent handle so cool though.

[04 SE Deuce]

 Stroker,  you weren't insinuating a bagger handles well? 

Quality shocks and kit the forks..I bet it will work pretty good,  lean angle will be the limiting factor.  My bike has 32 deg. rake and 5.1" trail..have never encountered  a bagger/rider combo that could match the pace.  Rick

[justaguy]

Check the rear wheel spokes. A lot of 2012's have had spokes loosen up very early and the customers think it coming from the front end.

[apehair]

Update:

Good news: I fixed most of the wobble. 

Bad news: I'm not sure which of the two things I did was responsible.

What I did:

1.  Replaced stock riser bushings with Harley's polyurethane riser bushings.

2.  Adjusted fall-away by the book.  That means I loosened the pinch bolts on the forks and the steering neck.  And I measured fall-away.  On the FL front end, it turns out, just a small increase in torque on the fork stem nut affects the fall-away dramatically.  There's a sweet spot on the fork-stem nut that makes all the difference in fall-away.  Once I set it where I wanted it, I gave the steering neck nut an extra 1/4 turn.  Not sure why, LOL. 

I ride the Heritage (2012) with chrome fork lowers and Harleys' bigger windshield, the one with the side louvers.  So there's plenty there to increase front-end oscillations.

But the front end is greatly improved.  I have to let go of the bars on a downhill to feel them, and they're much lower than before. 

ape

[boooby1744]

Did you get the recall notice for a new rear wheel?

[apehair]

Did you get the recall notice for a new rear wheel?

No, I didn't hear anything about that.  Do you have any info?

Thx,

ape

[KumaRide]

Congratulations on getting the Heritage.. Got enough lean angle for ya??

Max

one thought, death wobble