odd looking VIN#

[tomcat64]

a customer brought in a servi-car for us to look at, the VIN # reads 5Axx6x9h3 wich says it's a 73 ge750 ...but,, the stamping looks funny,, the 6 and the 9 both have curved tails and i have always heard the all HD VIN# have straight tailed 6's and 9's,, also the bike has right side hand shift and an XL front end,, the dang thing looks suspicious,, any opinions?  i will try to post a pic or two..

[hd06myway]

I wouldn't buy it, and keep in mind, if a bike is stolen and then sold, say to you, and the cops are doing a spot check like what happened at the Harley Rendevous in NY a few years back, a couple vintage Shovels restored by 2 guys were confiscated because they were stolen, not by these 2 guys, but they bought them not knowing they were stolen bikes, doesn't matter, if you own it, your out of a bike, they never got the bikes back... never even got into the Rendevous... go with your instincts, if it smells fishy it probably is...

[Breeze]

My Connecticut police H.D. book says 1970 to 1980 used "Posident" characters. The photo examples show curved tails on 6's and 9's.  6's and 9's are interchangeable.  The vin boss and engine case have the same even texture, with a 5 point star before and after vin.  I hope this helps.

[CraigArizona85248]

Tomcat, these numbers sound bogus.  I think I'd follow the advice of hd06myway and stay clear.  But I'd be curious to see photos.  What year is this Servicar?  Are the numbers you talk about on the frame or the motor?  If they are frame #'s, I'd like to see the #'s on the motor too.

-Craig

EDIT: Ok... I'm going to retract what I said above.  These numbers very well could be legit for 1973.  The "5A" does match up to a GE-750.  Typically the servicar motor comes with a "G" designation.  It's also a 750cc displacement flathead.  The "E" might have been added if this is an electric start (I'm speculating) servicar.  I'm still intersted in seeing a photo of the numbers on both the frame and the motor.  I'll reserve final judgement until I can eyeball them.

[tomcat64]

i will try to post a pic,, ifin i can remember how to!! the more i look into this i think the VIN is good,,,

[tomcat64]

 

[tomcat64]

to me the 6, the 9 and the 4's look funny

[Jeffd]

i'll go out on a limb and say it is legit.  I have seen legit vins that looked similar and I think one reason the numbers look funny is it is hard to actually duplicate them that way.  easy way to check is to run a vin number check and/or compare to the registration.  If the registration matches the numbers and shows that vehicle it should be ok.

[Ohio HD]

I'd still be careful, and check it out good. I bought a 1952 Pan back in 1981, was a chopper on a '57 straight leg frame, bike had a Shovel top end, which was all the rage back at that time. The winter came after I bought it, and I was going to pull the motor down and go through it, pulled the tin primary off, and the motor sprocket nut, and low and behold, the motor shaft was splined, not a taper with a key way.

The cases had been renumbered, I still remember the the number, 52FL1226. 1955 was when they started making the Pans with a splined motor shaft......

I sold the bike the next Spring.

[hbkeith]

if the numbers seem funny shoudlnt you ask the owner about it instead of posting his # on internet ?

[Maddog]

remember harley hand stamped numbers back then     G 45 trike GL same GA 45 trike no tow bar GE 45 trike electric start    those were good from 1932 through 1973     also 70 to 80  5A   GE electric start servi car   hope this helps some an yes the numbers are kind of strange??

[dunbarton]

To me those don't look uniform enough to match any sets of stamps I've ever seen. ie usually the 6 and 9 are the same stamp, just oriented differently aren't they?
Anybody here got a similar vintage bike to compare the appearance of the VINs?
I read that the engine# doesn't matter, the frame is the official because at that date they didn't necessarily match.http://www.harley-performance.com/harley-vin.html

[JamLazyAss]

IMO, whether the numbers are good or not, I believe they have been restamped or modified. The 4 and 6 look odd. Hell, they all look a little odd. Unless the picture is making it look that way.
Very interesting to see how you make out.

[dunbarton]

IMO, whether the numbers are good or not, I believe they have been restamped or modified. The 4 and 6 look odd. Hell, they all look a little odd. Unless the picture is making it look that way.
Very interesting to see how you make out.

They almost look cut instead of stamped. That's why seeing another known good example from same period would tell the tale.
I suppose if it's been registered all along and paper trail is right, then it's OK. Issue comes when you are selling something that's suspect because people either don't want it or won't pay full market value.

[easyricer]

Looking at the metal around the numbers, that is what seems a little fishy. The inset number boss looks like it has been tampered with. I'm going to assume that you cleaned the area to better see the numbers, but the notches look rounded off and the little nub in front looks like its been cut on. The numbers may be legit but the boss looks suspicious to me.
EASY

[Speeding Big Twin]

[Deye76]

Not an expert, but when comparing numbers older may indded be different. Old were hand stamped, and machine stamps were used. Fast forward to 1973 and HD used stamps entirely different from machine stamps. I bet a photo sent to the factory will get you some advice.

[Jaycee1964]

I have a 49 WL and the only suspisious charictor to me is the "9".  My 9 is a dupe of the 6.  His are totally diff. stamps.  Other than that the rest look cool.  Compare to the frame #.  They prolly woulda stamped it @ the same time.  If the 9 on the frame is hooked your prolly ok.

[Breeze]

Tomcat; Those numbers look just like the examples in the book I mentioned in reply #2, also match photo's bigtwin posted.
Also the book says 6 & 9 are interchangeable, and show actual photos of a serial # where the 6 was used as a 9, a 9 used as a 6, and a 6 and a nine used. I think it was the discretion of the person doing the stamping that day. The 6 has more curve in the tail than the 9.

[tomcat64]

thanks breeze,, the frame #'s are the same and look the same, the more i am looking into this the more i think they are legit,, of course the problem now is ,,,, what's the damn thing worth?

one thing i do know is that there are a lot of "bad" VIN's out there on old bikes,, but there are also a lot that look funny simply because harley didn't seem to be real careful when stamping the cases..

thanks for all the help!

[CraigArizona85248]

After seeing Eric's (SpeedingBigTwin) numbers above, I think your number are legit Tomcat.  Notice the odd "6" in your number looks like the odd "9" in his number.  These numbers were hand stamped and I can believe that the guy doing the stamping my use that oddball stamp to make either a "6" or a "9".  I don't think I'd worry about those numbers at all.  Oh... and the stretched looking "5" matches Eric's numbers too.

-Craig

[Speeding Big Twin]

Tomcat, I can't see anything wrong with any of the characters in that 73 VIN you posted and you've probably compared them with the two photos I posted above. I have similar examples for 1973 and 1970 Servis but I used the 71 and 72 photos because they're clearer.

It is not uncommon to see those two different sorts of 6/9 in this type of VIN.

Notice only one star in your photo whereas my two examples have no stars. Some of my other 1970-later Servi-Car VIN examples are the same, with some having one star and some having none.
 
You said you have always heard that all H-D VINs have straight-tailed 6s and 9s. But what VINs are you talking about? Do you mean 1970-later or do you mean 1969 and earlier? H-D used several different types of 6/9 over the years: the styles we see above, one of which could be described as a certain type of round-back; other round-back types (and more than one style); curved-back; vertically-applied straight-back; diagonally-applied straight-back.


If that Servi-Car has a right-side hand shift it may be original because H-D made both types of shifter, right-hand and left-hand. Photos would tell us more. I do not think the XL front end would be original to that machine because Servis for 1958 and later used an FL/FLH-style Glide fork. Prior to 1958 the Servi had a springer front end.

Even though that Servi-Car engine is stamped with H3 it may even be a 1974 model. One source tells me that some 1974 model Servis were made but had engines stamped H3 instead of H4. What year is it registered as?

Did you check the belly numbers on the underside of the crankcases? They may be in a format similar to the following example: 373-1234. And you could call Pete Simet at H-D Customer Service on 414-343-4056 and tell him the VIN and the belly numbers. He may be able to check Harley records for you to see if the VIN and belly numbers are original to each other. 
Eric

[Speeding Big Twin]

remember harley hand stamped numbers back then     G 45 trike GL same GA 45 trike no tow bar GE 45 trike electric start    those were good from 1932 through 1973     also 70 to 80  5A   GE electric start servi car   hope this helps some an yes the numbers are kind of strange??

Maddog, you mentioned a GL. Please explain exactly what you think a GL is and where your information about it is from.

Quote: 'G 45 trike GL same GA 45 trike no tow bar GE 45 trike electric start    those were good from 1932 through 1973'
It sounds like you are saying those G-type model designations were stamped-in as of 1932? Is that what you are saying? If that is what you are saying then I disagree. The Servi-Car was introduced for 1932 but it wasn't until the 1938 models that the G (or GA, GD, etc) was stamped in as part of the engine serial number (on the left crankcase). Instead, for 1932–36 the Servi-Cars used an engine stamped as one of the R-series and for 1937 they had an engine stamped as one of the W-series even though the machines themselves were referred to as Model Gs, GAs, GDs, etc.

Engines stamped as one or another of the G-series were used at applicable times over the 1938–69 period. There was a Model GE for a brief time in the late-30s but obviously it was not electric start. Then for 1964 a different Servi-Car was known as the Model GE and that's when an electric starter was fitted as original.

Quote: 'also 70 to 80  5A   GE electric start servi car'
Yes, Servi-Cars for 1970-later had a VIN beginning with 5A. There may have been some 1974 models fitted with 1973-stamped engines but there were no Servi-Cars in the late-70s. And there was no Servi-Car for 1980.
Eric

[Speeding Big Twin]

I have a 49 WL and the only suspisious charictor to me is the "9".  My 9 is a dupe of the 6.  His are totally diff. stamps.  Other than that the rest look cool.  Compare to the frame #.  They prolly woulda stamped it @ the same time.  If the 9 on the frame is hooked your prolly ok.

Jaycee1964, are you comparing your 49 WL serial number with the 1973 VIN? If so, can you please explain why. If your 49 WL serial number is authentic then its 4 and 9 will not be the same types as the 4 and 9 in that 73 VIN. Also, if the sequence portion of your WL serial number contains a 1, 3, 5 and/or 6 then the same thing applies, meaning that none of those numbers will be the same style as the 1, 3, 5 and/or 6 in that 73 VIN. So why are you comparing your 49 WL characters with the characters in that 73 VIN?
Eric

[kik]

I had a 77 Ironhead I don't remember the full vin but I remember it read (Star 666) all with the tails curled. We always called it the devil bile bike or satan's ride.