Cracked left side motor case!

[CraigArizona85248]

Slow progress so far Easy.  I didn't even get the motor out of the frame until 10 days ago.  I got sick (sinus and ear infections) the weekend after I discovered the crack and that has been a slow recovery (getting old really sucks in some ways).  The motor is all packed up and ready to go to the guy who's going to make the repairs for me.  The freight company picks it up tomorrow from my house.

-Craig

[easyricer]

(getting old really sucks in some ways)
I'm getting to know that more and more every day!
EASY

[CraigArizona85248]

Argh! 
The crack is worse then it looks.  After disassembling the motor and heating up the case it's apparent that the crack goes all the way across the number boss before it stops. That means the numbers are going to be obliterated with the repair.  I already have an assigned vehicle number so there won't be any legal hassle.  But I hate the idea of losing the motor number on these cases.  Nothing I can do about it though.  Without the repair, the cases are junk.

Oh well... onward and upward.

-Craig

[spoke]

I suppose this is a stupid question, but can't they be restamped legally. Has anyone ever asked the DMV if that could be done in case's(no pun intended) like this.

[easyricer]

WOW, yeah that sux! Sorry bout that Craig.
EASY

[Deye76]

I suppose this is a stupid question, but can't they be restamped legally. Has anyone ever asked the DMV if that could be done in case's(no pun intended) like this.

If the number block can be dressed up I'd restamp. Those numbers were done by hand with machine stamps back then.

[CraigArizona85248]

Numbers cannot be restamped legally.  That was common practice in the old days, but sometime around 1984, IIRC, that became illegal.  Now, I'm sure I could redress the number boss and restamp the numbers if I found the right shaped stamps.  Nobody would probably ever know unless they looked really really close.  But I see botched numbers on ebay all the time.  Usually they are obvious because the person doing the stamping used stamps with the wrong font.

-Craig

[Snuff™]

Argh! 
... it's apparent that the crack goes all the way across the number boss before it stops. That means the numbers are going to be obliterated with the repair. ...-Craig

Maybe drill the crack on each side of the Number Boss, plug weld the drilling and then gouge the backside of the Number Boss and weld, leaving the numbers untouched?    Probably not a good practice, but wtf?

[easyricer]

I agree with Snuff, it's worth a try at the very least to attempt to save the numbers cracked or not. What ever you do, make sure it is extremely well documented.
EASY

[CraigArizona85248]

Just welding the backside leaves a big risk of the crack restarting. This repair is way too expensive to take that chance. Since I already have an assigned vehicle number and a blue tag on the frame, the motor numbers don't really matter anymore. There is no mention of the motor number on the title.

-Craig

[fourthgear]

Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do , even if it sux. Bummer !

[Deye76]

. Since I already have an assigned vehicle number and a blue tag on the frame, the motor numbers don't really matter anymore. There is no mention of the motor number on the title.

-Craig

Then it shouldn't be illegal to restamp. I would try to dress up the number block and re-stamp. to the eye would look good.

[CraigArizona85248]

It may not be illegal since I've already got a blue tag. And i might consider it if I can find the right stamps. But it feels dishonest.

-Craig

[76shuvlinoff]

I dunno, if you are restoring the exact numbers then technically there really is no harm, tough call. From what I gather you are going to obliterate the numbers with the repair and it won't be factory or repair the numbers and it won't be factory.

I suppose somewhere down the road, in the hands of your heirs and for sale, some expert might call "cheater cheater". You could document the damage, the repair, and the re-stamping complete with pics and even have it notarized if you wanted to. Knowing you ride the wheels off that thing and will probably be buried with it the likelihood of someone getting ripped off is pretty slim. I'd probably re-stamp the numbers just for my own reference.  It ain't like you're printing funny money in your basement.

Good luck!
  - Mark

[Robin]

Craig, you having Perry fix the motor??

Robin

[easyricer]

Craig, years ago I bought a recovered stolen bike. Was a 98 Sporty and the numbers were ground off. Someone used JB Weld to flatten out the number boss. Well what they didn't think of was that there was another number on the bottom of the motor. I simply built up the number boss with the TIG, filed it back flat, went over it a few times with a wire brush on my drill so that the repair looked like part of the casting, then restamped the number back into it. There was no changing of numbers. It was titled off that number even though the frame was a rigid Poughco. I had been checked once by the local Sheriff and he couldn't tell the difference. (in 98 they used the dot matrix numbers that they use today) I used one of those push punched that you don't need a hammer with.
EASY

[motorplex88]

It's to bad about the numbers but I would rather have the cases repaired in a proper manner as to assure reliability. As far as legalities, it might not hurt to ask??

[CraigArizona85248]

Robin, yes, Perry at Flo Headworks is doing this repair for me.

I asked Perry about the possiblity of stop drilling the crack at each side of the number boss and then only welding it on the backside in that area.  He said he had already given that some thought and had talked to a few guys in the business and they all felt that it would give the crack a place to start again. The concensus was that the numbers had to be sacraficed to make a proper repair.

I also asked Perry about restamping.  He said in California, where his shop is located, it is absolutely illegal to restamp numbers.  It doesn't matter that he knows it's all legit.  The act of restamping numbers (even numbers that are not on the title) is illegal.  I know a guy in Illinois who restores a lot of old bikes and he told me the same thing.  I'm pretty sure this extends to all states because the anti-tampering laws he is referring to are federal laws.

I'm sure I could get the correct stamps myself and "restore" the numbers in my garage.  I'm just not sure it's worth the possible hassle.

-Craig

[War Horse]

Been following along here and though theres allot of talk about numbers, I wonder what caused the crack and if the shop doing the repair is dye checking the rest of the case. 

[CraigArizona85248]

War Horse, yes, the entire case (both halves actually) will be closely inspected for cracks.  The last thing I want is to do all this work and spend all the money and be back in the same boat next year.  The cause of the crack is a bit of a mystery.  Although in my research I have found several guys who have had similar cracks in their cases.  After tearing down the bottom end, there were no issues with bearings being overly worn and no issues in the cam case.  The wear was less then what you might expect for a motor with 100K miles on it.

I have total confidence that these guys will do that right thing to build a strong reliable motor.  They built it the first time and the performance has been outstanding.  Thats why I sent it back to them to do it again.  I can't complain a bit about a panhead that I got 100K miles on between rebuilds.  I wish I had the time, skill and equipment to do it all myself but this work is best left to a full time professional.

-Craig

[Deye76]

"I'm sure I could get the correct stamps myself and "restore" the numbers in my garage.  I'm just not sure it's worth the possible hassle."

I'm pretty sure dealers are authorized by the factory to restore engine numbers on the older stuff.  Not trying to debate just help. Might save you crap from a nosey cop who isn't up on regs. To some LEO's a destroyed number block looks more suspicious. 

[CraigArizona85248]

I'll ask around.  We have a really old shop in town (Buddy Stubbs H-D) that might still have stamps.  I'm pretty sure that dealers have not been allowed to stamp motors since the mid 80's.  I believe they return the motors to H-D today to get stamped.

I do appreciate the input.

-Craig

[garyajaz]

i lost a rod on my 54pan.
it was a bit of a hot rod.  i rode it very hard...
dealer sent broken case to factory. this was in mid 60's.
they destroyed case and sold me a new one with same numbers.
then some cali cop thought it looked too good after a speeding stop.
he took bike and said they used some acid to bring out old numbers.
surprise, no old stamp.  got bike back.  but was a major hassell.

guess what i am getting at craig is if overstamp it can be brought out.
then the trouble starts.

on other hand you not a 20 year old kid riding crazy on ...
well...oops, i have seen you on the canyon road...

[CraigArizona85248]

Yeah... They can definitely bring out an "overstamp" with acid.  Not sure how that works when the old area was v-ed out for welding and then welded up.  Unfortunately, half obliterated numbers because of a repair looks fishy too.  It's kind of a lose-lose situation.

-Craig

[easyricer]

No worries about the acid trick, Craig, the metal will have been changed so much by the welding and the resurfacing that no amount of acid will raise a number or any resemblance of one. Go on and stamp it if you can find the correct stamps.
EASY