Greasing spherical swing arm bearings?

[klammer76]

Ok, I'm going to go with some kind of upgrade on this 02 swingarm. My bike came with sphericals and 3/4" shaft I'm not impressed with the bearings, I think they're is alot of static load on them just from the weight of trans and engine.

Sorry but the motor and tranny don't load the swingarm.. The Swing-arm is the static load on the tranny..  The tranny is supported by the rubber donuts in the back..

I'm not sure about using to ball bearing on both sides to support the swingarm is that is what they are doing.. The issue is that the holes in the swingarm halves may bit be perfectly lined up.. I'd prefer bronse bushing over balls either way.. The problem is that the ball won't have a chance to move any more than the small amount the swingarm moves.. As a result the bearings will wear out quickly.. Heck the timkins in a dyna swingarm don't last all that long either..  Seems like the Stabo plastic busing would be better but if the plastic can't handle the deflection and deforms it may be all that good either.. And we are back to bronze.



Max

Good point Max, also answers my question why Moco used spherical bearings.

Klammer

[clawdog60]

So what is the wink link then? The frame support doughnuts or the spherical bearings or both? I cant see a bronze bushing holding up for any length of time, too soft.

[Admiral Akbar]

So what is the wink link then? The frame support doughnuts or the spherical bearings or both? I cant see a bronze bushing holding up for any length of time, too soft.

Then I guess HD should use bronze for the right side swingarm bushing on Dynas.. Someone needs to to let them know..

Max

[clawdog60]

I would have to inspect @ least a dozen of them after about 30k and see what kind of wear is on them. What's the rear mounting setup on your custom bike Max? That is a twin cam FL engine trans. correct? I've never been impressed with Dyna handling in corners either.

[Admiral Akbar]

I would have to inspect @ least a dozen of them after about 30k and see what kind of wear is on them.

That's the best way to do it.. Also make sire that the bearing have been serviced properly..  See if there are any trends..FWIW the bushing handles the wear and lack of care much better than the timkens..

What's the rear mounting setup on your custom bike Max?That is a twin cam FL engine trans. correct?

Yep but it utilizes bronze bushings.

I've never been impressed with Dyna handling in corners either.

Well the handling of most HDs is pretty unimpressive..What impresses you?  R1? CBR?  HD front springs way to soft.... Single speed damping orifices.. The FXDX had good suspension as far as damping goes but still utilized a ancient bagger rear wheel.. 

Max

[clawdog60]

To your first sentence: yes without a doubt. Will try to find some real world info on bronze HD swingarm bearings. Appears to me the swing arm bushings carry much of the load and not so much the bearing itself? IDK. My 08 xb12x handles very nicely, zx11 did well, never been into the crotch rockets though. I read where you didn't notice any handling difference with the urethane glide pro rear isolators. I could live with more vibes if my bike would handle better with the GP system.

[Admiral Akbar]

To your first sentence: yes without a doubt. Will try to find some real world info on bronze HD swingarm bearings. Appears to me the swing arm bushings carry much of the load and not so much the bearing itself? IDK.

Not sure what you meant by swing arm bushings carrying the load.. If you mean that the rubber donuts are holding up the tranny end of the drivetrain then you are correct.. If you remove the busing covers the tranny will drop down in the frame. To me, bushings and bearings could mean the same thing.. Even if a bronze bushing supported the weight of the motor, sized right, it could do so easily..

SAE 660 is about 2/3 to 3/4 the harness of mild steel.. You can go with silicon aluminum bronze and you have a bronze that is almost tiwice the harness and tensile of mild steel..

I used SAE 660 as the bearing surface is easily twice (probably closer to 3-4) the area under load of the spherical bearing.

If you look at the pics the id of the bronze bushing has a 1 1/4 inch inside diameter and a bearing surface 2 inch long.

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My 08 xb12x handles very nicely, zx11 did well, never been into the crotch rockets though.

Wonder what they used for bearings.

I read where you didn't notice any handling difference with the urethane glide pro rear isolators. I could live with more vibes if my bike would handle better with the GP system.

I think that the link system would be a better option if you really think the thing is needed.. I would definitely make sure the swing-arm and it's bearing are in good shape, alignment etc..

The EGC I've got is handling pretty good IMO.. The pizza box is removed, Progressive 440s on the back, forks have the HD emulators, progressive light springs. 15 wt Spectrol oil.  Avon 150/18x16 AV72 in the back and whats left of the commander II (about 12K on it).  Donuts are shimmed. The only issues I have right now is that the front tires seems to squirm under tight corners (could be fork flex) and the handle bars are pulled back enough that the rider can induce a dance on bouncy corners.. I plan to live handlebar as they provide very good ridding position.. When the Commander II wears out the front will get a 130/70-18 AV72 mounted on a Streetglide wheel.

Max


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[skypilot_one]

Got the spherical bearings and the O.D. of the MM carr bushings are .004 too small. Need to machine some 660 to fit. I was suprised to see the only thing holding the swingarm is the width of the spherical bearing on each side. The outer spacer is a sloppy fit in the swingarm. I'd like to press the new bearing/inner bushing assembly myself but don't have the HD-45327 installer. Is there a proper depth to press them in? The manual says bottom the Drive side but the brake side only goes in so far.

[Admiral Akbar]

Got the spherical bearings and the O.D. of the MM carr bushings are .004 too small. Need to machine some 660 to fit. I was suprised to see the only thing holding the swingarm is the width of the spherical bearing on each side. The outer spacer is a sloppy fit in the swingarm. I'd like to press the new bearing/inner bushing assembly myself but don't have the HD-45327 installer. Is there a proper depth to press them in? The manual says bottom the Drive side but the brake side only goes in so far.

If you are talking about making bushings/spacers to support the spherical bearings, I'd probably make them out of 303 or 316 stainless..They don't need to be a bearing/bushing material. To get the press distance, if the fit looked good and nothing shifted on the current bearing, pull the dimension off the current bearing..

Max

[skypilot_one]

Max,

That's the problem. I bought a 2007 takeoff to use on my 2000. I thought it had the bearings in it and was going to bush for the 5/8" shaft. When I inspected the swingarm the previous owner had pressed the bearings out to use sta-bo's. I don't know the correct distance between the two inner spacers.

[clawdog60]

Skypilot you say to use the sta-bo bearings? I take it the swingarm you bought came with sta-bo but not installed? I still can't get enough straight information on what parts to replace on my swingarm for the most rigid yet somewhat pliable setup?

[skypilot_one]

Skypilot you say to use the sta-bo bearings? I take it the swingarm you bought came with sta-bo but not installed? I still can't get enough straight information on what parts to replace on my swingarm for the most rigid yet somewhat pliable setup?

Clawdog, What year is your bike?

The person I purchased the swingarm had the original bearings pressed out and was going to use Sta-Bo's. I just wanted to bush the inner and outer spacers to 5/8" to use the 2000 pivot shaft and use new spherical bearings.

There are many products on the market from True-Track, Sta-Bo, CCE etc. I just want the 2002-2007 swingarm upgrade and already installed a Bagger Brace. I'm installing the old swingarm for now to get the motor dyno'd as soon as we have a day over 45 degrees. I need to order some 660 from Online Metals or Speedy Metals.

[clawdog60]

I have an 02 with the 3/4" pivot shaft. I was just curious as to why the person you got the swingarm from didn't go ahead and put sta-bo's bearings in. I take it you are still going to use the stock spherical bearings?

[BulldogBiker]

Got the spherical bearings and the O.D. of the MM carr bushings are .004 too small. Need to machine some 660 to fit. I was suprised to see the only thing holding the swingarm is the width of the spherical bearing on each side. The outer spacer is a sloppy fit in the swingarm. I'd like to press the new bearing/inner bushing assembly myself but don't have the HD-45327 installer. Is there a proper depth to press them in? The manual says bottom the Drive side but the brake side only goes in so far.

when I got the bushings from MM they were less than .002" to the stock spacers. Used Locktite 620 Green to hold them in place after cutting them to the spacers length and reaming for pivot shaft. Specs off of MM's website gave OD .002 - .003 which the locktite would work with.

As for pressing the bearings in place, I used a piece on 1/2" all thread with a couple of fender washers that covered the swingarm opening and hillbillyed the bearing into place with a 1/2 drive socket.... Forget which one but made sure it only contacted the outer race. Pulled into place easily. I butted the bearing into the swingarm and this gave me a press fit onto the transmission.

I thought  this was the best way to fit and if there was play between swingarm and transmission than I had SS shims ready to give a tight fit. Maybe I was lucky with this setup but if it doesn't work it's an easy fix to go with other options. Price was also right!

[skypilot_one]

I have an 02 with the 3/4" pivot shaft. I was just curious as to why the person you got the swingarm from didn't go ahead and put sta-bo's bearings in. I take it you are still going to use the stock spherical bearings?

You have a rigid setup. You could install a Bagger Brace/ True Track or the Sta-Bo 2 or other similar product that fits in the id of the rubber mount.

I thought it had the Spherical bearings so I didn't purchase the Sta-bos from him figuring the cost to bush from 3/4 to 5/8 would be cheaper and I was trying to do this on the cheap. The complete 2007 take off was $150.00, wheel, tire, swingarm, axle, brake caliper, disc, belt pulley.

[skypilot_one]

Got the spherical bearings and the O.D. of the MM carr bushings are .004 too small. Need to machine some 660 to fit. I was suprised to see the only thing holding the swingarm is the width of the spherical bearing on each side. The outer spacer is a sloppy fit in the swingarm. I'd like to press the new bearing/inner bushing assembly myself but don't have the HD-45327 installer. Is there a proper depth to press them in? The manual says bottom the Drive side but the brake side only goes in so far.

when I got the bushings from MM they were less than .002" to the stock spacers. Used Locktite 620 Green to hold them in place after cutting them to the spacers length and reaming for pivot shaft. Specs off of MM's website gave OD .002 - .003 which the locktite would work with.

As for pressing the bearings in place, I used a piece on 1/2" all thread with a couple of fender washers that covered the swingarm opening and hillbillyed the bearing into place with a 1/2 drive socket.... Forget which one but made sure it only contacted the outer race. Pulled into place easily. I butted the bearing into the swingarm and this gave me a press fit onto the transmission.

I thought  this was the best way to fit and if there was play between swingarm and transmission than I had SS shims ready to give a tight fit. Maybe I was lucky with this setup but if it doesn't work it's an easy fix to go with other options. Price was also right!

The i.d. of the new spacers must be bigger than yours. The stack up seems too high for green locktite, but I'll check the specs. I can easily slide a 1/2" wide piece of paper between the spacer and the 660 bushing. Also measured with calipers.

[skypilot_one]

loctite 620 is good up to .015 gap.

permatex 64000 high temp sleeve retainer good to 400*F and .007 fit. Ordered this.

Permatex 68050 for relaxed fits up to .015.

[BulldogBiker]

The i.d. of the new spacers must be bigger than yours. The stack up seems too high for green locktite, but I'll check the specs. I can easily slide a 1/2" wide piece of paper between the spacer and the 660 bushing. Also measured with calipers.

48487-02 & 48489-02 spacers are the ones I used. They are sized for the 3/4" pivot shaft and MM 6381K536 bushing should work perfectly for this application after reaming for 5/8 pivot shaft and sized for the spacers. Maybe you were sent incorrect bushings? Without going to a solid bearing setup such as Max's  this setup is a whole bunch tighter than pre 02 swing arms and a lot cheaper than pre made kits.

[clawdog60]

I like the idea of having a thicker trasnmission to pivot shaft casting 5/8" opposed to 3/4" maybe strength @ this point is not an issue. I think if you stiffen the swingarm/trans. mounts some extra stress will be applied to the trans. eye. I'm going with the sta-bo doughnut bushings and his s.s. swingarm bearings (tighter tolerances than the sphericals) and new oem doughnuts.  Back to o.p. I will be installing a zert on each swingarm lobe a little grease once a year can't be a bad thing. Will update on this after a year of riding.

[skypilot_one]

A new HD (german) stainless spherical bearing works smooth as a ball valve, not alot of tolerance. If you put grease in there there what's gonna hold it in there? The clearance between the swingarm and the outer spacer is about 1/32" all around. I suppose the swingarm mount pushed against the end swingarm will help hold the grease in. Just sayin.

[koko3052]

Maybe before assembly machine around the bush for an O-ring? 

[clawdog60]

the sta-bo bearings are sealed s.s. some type of marine bearings I'm told. tight tolerances. no need for grease or zerts! They are not spherical.

[skypilot_one]

the sta-bo bearings are sealed s.s. some type of marine bearings I'm told. tight tolerances. no need for grease or zerts! They are not spherical.

Sealed bearing, no need for zerks then.

[clawdog60]

  will see how they hold up to my riding style.