Power Vision questions

[guydoc77]

i have tried this and in the tune i have the only extra tune item that came up was the active exhaust took it to a dynojet tune centre here in Australia to get tuned and he wasn't able to bring them up either if i try the beta software will the tune that he has done for me stay on power vision because he has locked it and cant save to computer  what im trying to do is turn off the acr

I,,I,.T.I,?W.

[Jamie Long]

Another question, can the PV system be used to pull up an existing map from the ecm without locking itself to that particular vin?

You can use the PV to read the complete .STK binary of any "unlocked" ecm, however this .STK can only be converted to a PV calibration on the bike the PV is married to (or bikes in which you have an additional tune license)

[Jamie Long]

With current production firmware to Update your tune to expose all of the newest tables and features you will first run the Update Client and make sure you have the latest firmware and software, you will then on the PV display go to Program Vehicle>Load Copy>Copy of Current and save to a slot in the Tune Manager. You can then retrieve it in WinPv.

One of the updates in the latest Beta firmware is the ability to update the tune right thru the software are Herko mentions. This will be included in the production firmware that will be released shortly. As I noted earlier if anyone would like to try the latest Beta FW just shoot me an email at jamie@fuelmotousa.com and I would be happy to send it over.

i have tried this and in the tune i have the only extra tune item that came up was the active exhaust took it to a dynojet tune centre here in Australia to get tuned and he wasn't able to bring them up either if i try the beta software will the tune that he has done for me stay on power vision because he has locked it and cant save to computer  what im trying to do is turn off the acr

If the tables are not exposed in the software first make sure the firmware, software,  and tune database is fully updated. If the table is not in the software check the tune items on the PV unit itself as we are moving some of the less significant tables there such as ACR, Speedo cal, and a few others to clean up the PV maps a bit. Alot of this will be changing with this big firmware update this is going to roll out shortly. 

[DaleW]

A couple of questions,If tuning with the wideband O2s, when you are happy with the tune, is it recommended to then replace the sensors with the stock n/b's?

Does the timing learn mean that supplied maps can be set with aggressive spark timing and the PV will auto adjust these back over a period of time, if so, what kind of period of time does it take?

[Jamie Long]

A couple of questions,If tuning with the wideband O2s, when you are happy with the tune, is it recommended to then replace the sensors with the stock n/b's?

Does the timing learn mean that supplied maps can be set with aggressive spark timing and the PV will auto adjust these back over a period of time, if so, what kind of period of time does it take?

There are several ways the Wideband Auto Tune can be used. You can use them to develop your tune and when finished replace the stock O2 sensors and turn on closed loop, or if you have dual O2 bungs (like our Jackpot FLH head pipe's, Rineharts, and other) you can run both sets of sensors which allows your to retain closed loop and you can monitor live WB data if you choose.

Timing corrections are based on a strategy that uses recorded knock events vs number of hits in your logs. The most important aspect to note is we need to work within the limits of system itself and it can only remove timing not add it. The PV timing correction feature works really well and eliminates the need to go thru logs frame by frame, however the key is not setting the timing overly aggressive and relying on the knock retard to set the timing, rather using a good timing table and using the tools at hand to develop your table.

[DaleW]

There are several ways the Wideband Auto Tune can be used. You can use them to develop your tune and when finished replace the stock O2 sensors and turn on closed loop, or if you have dual O2 bungs (like our Jackpot FLH head pipe's, Rineharts, and other) you can run both sets of sensors which allows your to retain closed loop and you can monitor live WB data if you choose.

I have an 09 FLHRC, is it possible to run the small nb sensors down by the collector on the 09 models as well as the wb's up in the original type placement?

[brunothedog]

I really dont understand why someone would keep 4 O2 sensors on a motor once it's tuned.
Dont they consume? after 50 thousand miles are can they be trusted.
just wondering.
Once i got my motor tuned to my satisfaction I took out the narrow bands, don't really see the need other than when i will be riding in extreme conditions.

[Ken R]

I wonder about the accuracy of the wide-band sensors and how they compare to the factory narrow band.  If the motorcycle is tuned to the wideband sensors (which are removed once tuning is complete), will the narrow band sensors agree with the tune? 

Is there any way to check to make sure they're both giving the ECM accurate data.

Also, with the PV AutoTune sensor calibration, what is the tolerance once calilbrated.  Is it .1%, 10%, or somewhere in between.

I am planning to move from TTS to PowerVision wth the auto tuner in the extremely near future.  It's quite an investment, but sure looks like an extremely good product and it'll be fun to play with for more than just tuning.  (I saw one last night).  Just trying to learn all I can before making the change.  Just like with TTS, I'll be taking my motor to The Dyno Difference to test how my home-tune with PV compares to a professional dyno tune. 

[Jamie Long]

I wonder about the accuracy of the wide-band sensors and how they compare to the factory narrow band.  If the motorcycle is tuned to the wideband sensors (which are removed once tuning is complete), will the narrow band sensors agree with the tune? 

Is there any way to check to make sure they're both giving the ECM accurate data.

Also, with the PV AutoTune sensor calibration, what is the tolerance once calilbrated.  Is it .1%, 10%, or somewhere in between.

I am planning to move from TTS to PowerVision wth the auto tuner in the extremely near future.  It's quite an investment, but sure looks like an extremely good product and it'll be fun to play with for more than just tuning.  (I saw one last night).  Just trying to learn all I can before making the change.  Just like with TTS, I'll be taking my motor to The Dyno Difference to test how my home-tune with PV compares to a professional dyno tune.

I run the factory sensors and the WB Auto Tune sensors on my personal bike (which has the Jackpot 2/1 with both sets of bungs) and can tell you that having the ability to watch live data from both sets of sensors along side what the ECM is doing in closed loop both short term and long term is awesome. You can see exactly what the ECM is doing live, how it is applying data, and the end results out the tail pipe, all in black and white. No smoke and mirrors

[Jamie Long]

I wonder about the accuracy of the wide-band sensors and how they compare to the factory narrow band.  If the motorcycle is tuned to the wideband sensors (which are removed once tuning is complete), will the narrow band sensors agree with the tune? 

Is there any way to check to make sure they're both giving the ECM accurate data.

Also, with the PV AutoTune sensor calibration, what is the tolerance once calilbrated.  Is it .1%, 10%, or somewhere in between.

You can very accurately switch between the factory O2 sensors and the WB sensors with the Auto Tune, we have tested this hundreds of times over here on and off the dyno. As noted in my post above many times we run both sensors (if you have the pipes to accept them) and you can see the accuracy first hand along with what the system is doing. As far as calibration it is simply a free air test which will give you a go/no go result that Dynojet has developed in the controller. 

[emece]

Another question. Some of us asked for TTS to have a means to launch the ABS bleed sequence, without any success up to now. It would be possible for PV to have such capability?  Going to the dealer for such a simple thing as bleeding the brakes is a PITA.

[TN]

Another question. Some of us asked for TTS to have a means to launch the ABS bleed sequence, without any success up to now. It would be possible for PV to have such capability?  Going to the dealer for such a simple thing as bleeding the brakes is a PITA.

Techno Research centurion has this function available. and yes whenever i can eliminate the dealer i do.


TN

[FSG]

Can you trade in a TTS on a PV ?

[Ken R]

Another question. Some of us asked for TTS to have a means to launch the ABS bleed sequence, without any success up to now. It would be possible for PV to have such capability?  Going to the dealer for such a simple thing as bleeding the brakes is a PITA.

Yeah, that and key fob programming would be super.  The dealership's charge here for that is $45. Takes about 3 minutes.  PowerVision would be a perfect platform for such tasks. 

My PowerVision arrived the other day.  Haven't installed it on the motor yet.  Looking at all the tables (there are lots of them) and comparing to TTS right now. 

[ColoSpgsMark]

Can you trade in a TTS on a PV ?

Two different manufacturers and I doubt Dynojet would consider such.  Maybe a retailer may do that as  promo offer, but again, they'd need a discount from Dynojet to make it viable.

[tdkkart]

Can you trade in a TTS on a PV ?

I'd be all over this.
Pending just a few more valued opinions I'm very close to switching.
The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.   

[wurk_truk]

The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.

Except for ONE small thing.  Does the PV have a similar screen to the TTS histogram screen?  To those of us that ROAD tune and not Dyno tune, that histogram is a deal breaker if the PV can't tell me whether I am hitting all of the needed cells WHILE RIDING THE BIKE.   If I have to DL into winPV on a laptop later, to see if I am hitting cells or not...  I will pass on the PV.

If the PV DOES have a similar screen to the histogram?...  I'm ALL ears.  I try to be the VOICE of the DIYer folks.  With a monitor, I can hit every data point, on a TTS, in one ride.  Rinse and repeat a couple times, and done.  When am I done with a PV?

Show me... I've been to Missouri.  Someone should post screen shots of how to ROAD tune with a PV.  We have ALL seen how to use a Histogram from TTS.

Ron, all you would be doing is trading platforms for tuning.  With a TTS AND a Twin Scan, and you can't get a good tune, that PV will NOT do any better at all.  All ANY tuner out there does is talk to the ECM, ultimately.  If something is making the ECM go whacky, I doubt ANY tuner would make a difference.  It NOT that TTS is all of a sudden a crappy product.  It just that NOW... there is some actual competition on how to get into that ECM.

[Jamie Long]

Can you trade in a TTS on a PV ?

Funny you ask. Keep an eye open for a promotion we are launching in Sept we are calling "Tune in to Fuel Moto". We are allowing a $150.00 trade in discount off the retail price for those looking to trade up to Power Vision. We will be accepting trade in's on any tuning product including piggy back products and even flash type dongles like SERT & TTS. We will be posting complete information on our website www.fuelmotousa.com the first part of Sept along with some new products we are introducing to the market.

[Coyote]

The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.

Except for ONE small thing.  Does the PV have a similar screen to the TTS histogram screen?  To those of us that ROAD tune and not Dyno tune, that histogram is a deal breaker if the PV can't tell me whether I am hitting all of the needed cells WHILE RIDING THE BIKE.   If I have to DL into winPV on a laptop later, to see if I am hitting cells or not...  I will pass on the PV.

If the PV DOES have a similar screen to the histogram?...  I'm ALL ears.  I try to be the VOICE of the DIYer folks.  With a monitor, I can hit every data point, on a TTS, in one ride.  Rinse and repeat a couple times, and done.  When am I done with a PV?

Show me... I've been to Missouri.  Someone should post screen shots of how to ROAD tune with a PV.  We have ALL seen how to use a Histogram from TTS.

Ron, all you would be doing is trading platforms for tuning.  With a TTS AND a Twin Scan, and you can't get a good tune, that PV will NOT do any better at all.  All ANY tuner out there does is talk to the ECM, ultimately.  If something is making the ECM go whacky, I doubt ANY tuner would make a difference.  It NOT that TTS is all of a sudden a crappy product.  It just that NOW... there is some actual competition on how to get into that ECM.

I think that question has been addressed already. Having done the vtune thing, not having to mess with a laptop and remote monitor is huge.
And I'm not sure how you can be confident both tuning devices will have the same issues. AFAIK, TTS rewrites the entire ECM code (hence the locking) where as PV uses the stock ECM run time code and just alters the tuning information.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,54853.msg579691.html#msg579691

[Jamie Long]

Except for ONE small thing.  Does the PV have a similar screen to the TTS histogram screen?  To those of us that ROAD tune and not Dyno tune, that histogram is a deal breaker if the PV can't tell me whether I am hitting all of the needed cells WHILE RIDING THE BIKE.   If I have to DL into winPV on a laptop later, to see if I am hitting cells or not...  I will pass on the PV.

If the PV DOES have a similar screen to the histogram?...  I'm ALL ears.  I try to be the VOICE of the DIYer folks.  With a monitor, I can hit every data point, on a TTS, in one ride.  Rinse and repeat a couple times, and done.  When am I done with a PV?

Show me... I've been to Missouri.  Someone should post screen shots of how to ROAD tune with a PV.  We have ALL seen how to use a Histogram from TTS.

Ron, all you would be doing is trading platforms for tuning.  With a TTS AND a Twin Scan, and you can't get a good tune, that PV will NOT do any better at all.  All ANY tuner out there does is talk to the ECM, ultimately.  If something is making the ECM go whacky, I doubt ANY tuner would make a difference.  It NOT that TTS is all of a sudden a crappy product.  It just that NOW... there is some actual competition on how to get into that ECM.

Truk, with Power Vision you have the monitor right there with 12 different Log Tuning screens to choose from. You can choose live hits, view each VE table, live deltas, and others. It also displays engine temp, MAP, demanded AF or Lambda. You can also use the gauge screens to display any channel in the ECM on over a dozen layouts including live AFR/Lambda if you have the Auto Tune module. Road tuning could not be easier, especially with the new Beta FW which allows you to pretty much ride and collect data and simply apply the corrections to your tune. This is really good stuff, in a couple weeks when we roll out the production cut of the latest FW I will put together a complete video of this process. It is awesome.

Here is a quick screenshot (a crappy cell phone pic) of one of the AT datalogger screens:

[Ken R]

The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.

Except for ONE small thing.  Does the PV have a similar screen to the TTS histogram screen?  To those of us that ROAD tune and not Dyno tune, that histogram is a deal breaker if the PV can't tell me whether I am hitting all of the needed cells WHILE RIDING THE BIKE.   If I have to DL into winPV on a laptop later, to see if I am hitting cells or not...  I will pass on the PV.

If the PV DOES have a similar screen to the histogram?...  I'm ALL ears. 

I think you're gonna have a tough time finding a helmet or ear muffs that fit, being all ears and all.   The screen is small, but yes, it displays a histogram with cells filling as you ride.  It's another one of the reasons I'm switching. 

Ken

[mayor]

The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.

Except for ONE small thing.  Does the PV have a similar screen to the TTS histogram screen?  To those of us that ROAD tune and not Dyno tune, that histogram is a deal breaker if the PV can't tell me whether I am hitting all of the needed cells WHILE RIDING THE BIKE.   

If the PV DOES have a similar screen to the histogram?...  I'm ALL ears.  I try to be the VOICE of the DIYer folks. 

Show me... I've been to Missouri.  Someone should post screen shots of how to ROAD tune with a PV.  We have ALL seen how to use a Histogram from TTS.

I will let you know in a week or so.  I'll be getting the opportunity to tune a bike with Power Vision, and this was exactly my concern as well.  Jamie provided a code that allows a gauge to be displayed, but I don't have the unit yet so I haven't played with this option.  I'll be playing with this on a dyno, but I'll be using the on board lambda sensors to populate the ve tables, so I think having this screen is as important in this method as tuning on the street.

The one area that I see as a benefit to us dyi'ers is with the PV you do not have to carry a computer around to tune, but from what I understand the new vci's from TTS will have on board record option that eliminates the need for a computer (although, that also takes away the histogram option mention in the above paragraph). I'll be curious on how affective that little screen is when over the road tuning.  I ran a 7" monitor when I was "closed course" tuning, and that didn't always provide a large enough screen to see everything clearly as you were motoring down the road. 

I will say, based on my slightly biased opinion, I prefer the complete Mastertune option at this point over what I have seen by playing with the PV system software.  I really think that the Mastertune software just seems to be a much better designed system for tuners. The PV seems to be more geared towards making tuning simple for folks that want to do this on their own with limited tuning knowledge (not that there is anything wrong with that).   I say this without having tuned a bike with the PV, so we'll see if I still feel this way after my first. 

[Ken R]

I haven't started tuning yet, but the main reasons for my trying PV is that it doesn't lock out the ECM and it includes a screen with a "Histogram" to aid in filling cells.  With TTS, filling cells was a chore without any feedback until uploading the data to the computer.    That, and with the many programmable display screens, the PV may find a permanent mount on my motorcycle.  It gives information like I get in my Titan truck, only much more (like fuel consumed to the thousandth of a gallon).  No more trying to fill the tank precisely when checking gas mileage.  The PV does it for you and displays real-time mileage. 

I have the new firmware (beta).  It makes tuning on every ride quick and easy with no computer.  (if desired). 

 

[FLTRI]

I have the new firmware (beta).  It makes tuning on every ride quick and easy with no computer.  (if desired). 

Ken,
How long did it take to do your first tune with PV vs after a few tunes?
Bob

[hrdtail78]

Was wonder how and if the PV address's the cruise control speed limit?