O2 position and pipe type

[rbabos]

https://www.box.com/s/fjdjclhxmv40cwicgb2c
Try This..should be the map I am using...
Let me know.
Thanks

I see a big lean holes in the problem area you mentioned. Do a compare to orignal and you will see the low numbers in blue. Chase them up with egr table.
Ron

[hrdtail78]

How do you see lean area's looking at VE tables?  It's a table that represents air flow.

I would look into a different baffle.  This isn't what I call a bandaid.  I call this addressing the culprit of your problem.  I think you will make better power and tq also.

[rbabos]

How do you see lean area's looking at VE tables?  It's a table that represents air flow.

I would look into a different baffle.  This isn't what I call a bandaid.  I call this addressing the culprit of your problem.  I think you will make better power and tq also.

With that representation of air flow the fuel is also lower otherwise who gives rats what the ve's are? Huh?
A different baffle (back pressure) will most likely raise them. What's remaining can be bandaided with the egr table. No matter how you twist it (egr table) around it's a forced value of adjustment on top of a natural sample to cure engine running problems.
Ron

[lonewolf]

What kpa is this happening at?

[strokerjlk]

Boat load of timing everywhere. Gotta be vibrating the floorboards

[Paul in Alaska]

Boat load of timing everywhere. Gotta be vibrating the floorboards

? How to fix?

[hrdtail78]

How do you see lean area's looking at VE tables?  It's a table that represents air flow.

I would look into a different baffle.  This isn't what I call a bandaid.  I call this addressing the culprit of your problem.  I think you will make better power and tq also.

With that representation of air flow the fuel is also lower otherwise who gives rats what the ve's are? Huh?
A different baffle (back pressure) will most likely raise them. What's remaining can be bandaided with the egr table. No matter how you twist it (egr table) around it's a forced value of adjustment on top of a natural sample to cure engine running problems.
Ron

OK, I understand.  The air flow is not as much down, lower in the VE's.  What threw me off was the lean comment.  We can have a 42 in a cell and still target and get 13.5.  Thought you knew something and weren't sharing.

I don't understand calling EGR a bandaid either.  This is in every cal. that is running in a Harley ecm.  Some tuning devices allow access and some don't.  Seems it's a little misleading.

[rbabos]

How do you see lean area's looking at VE tables?  It's a table that represents air flow.

I would look into a different baffle.  This isn't what I call a bandaid.  I call this addressing the culprit of your problem.  I think you will make better power and tq also.

With that representation of air flow the fuel is also lower otherwise who gives rats what the ve's are? Huh?
A different baffle (back pressure) will most likely raise them. What's remaining can be bandaided with the egr table. No matter how you twist it (egr table) around it's a forced value of adjustment on top of a natural sample to cure engine running problems.
Ron

OK, I understand.  The air flow is not as much down, lower in the VE's.  What threw me off was the lean comment.  We can have a 42 in a cell and still target and get 13.5.  Thought you knew something and weren't sharing.

I don't understand calling EGR a bandaid either.  This is in every cal. that is running in a Harley ecm.  Some tuning devices allow access and some don't.  Seems it's a little misleading.

Slow day, so I'll keep picking on you.
Doesn't the egr table bias what the O2 sensor would read normally. How else could one alter things and keep the ADF happy? I'm assuming the bias can add or subtract mv from what the senor actually reads altering the fuel amounts in the set areas of the table. Tune is altered and the ecm is still happy. I got chit all the time for fooling the ecm so this time I chose bandaid for the term.
Ron

[hrdtail78]

Slow day, so I'll keep picking on you.
Doesn't the egr table bias what the O2 sensor would read normally.  How else could one alter things and keep the ADF happy? I'm assuming the bias can add or subtract mv from what the senor actually reads altering the fuel amounts in the set areas of the table. Tune is altered and the ecm is still happy. I got chit all the time for fooling the ecm so this time I chose bandaid for the term.
Ron

Thats not my understanding at all. 

[rbabos]

Slow day, so I'll keep picking on you.
Doesn't the egr table bias what the O2 sensor would read normally.  How else could one alter things and keep the ADF happy? I'm assuming the bias can add or subtract mv from what the senor actually reads altering the fuel amounts in the set areas of the table. Tune is altered and the ecm is still happy. I got chit all the time for fooling the ecm so this time I chose bandaid for the term.
Ron

Thats not my understanding at all.

Well maybe the ecm gets influenced via the table and alters the math to change what the O2(s) report but there's some form of altering going on in there for the table to work.
Ron

[strokerjlk]

Boat load of timing everywhere. Gotta be vibrating the floorboards

? How to fix?

try this. copy into each cly

[Paul in Alaska]

Boat load of timing everywhere. Gotta be vibrating the floorboards

? How to fix?

try this. copy into each cly

CLY? how did you come up with this?
Thanks!

[Paul in Alaska]

Why would youy decrease timing in areas where knock is not sensed or retard is recorded?
Thanks for you wisdom.......

[Paul in Alaska]

CLY = Cylinder.......

[strokerjlk]

CLY = Cylinder.......

yes each cyl

Why would youy decrease timing in areas where knock is not sensed or retard is recorded?
Thanks for you wisdom.......

because more is not always better. you can increase timing to the point of excessive vibration ,without seeing knock retard.
you can always go back or increase it a little at a time.

[mayor]

I would look into a different baffle.  This isn't what I call a bandaid.  I call this addressing the culprit of your problem.  I think you will make better power and tq also.

A different baffle (back pressure) will most likely raise them. What's remaining can be bandaided with the egr table..

I agree that making an adjustment to the baffle is the best way to improve the light throttle issues.  I also agree with making adjustments to the egr table once the baffle issue is addressed. 

The first step to addressing you tune issue should be the baffle, since no adjustments to the calibration will fix an issue with airflow (in coming and out going).  If you are reluctant to address your exhaust issue, you could try adding 30% to the egr table values on both cylinders from 0-2,800 rpm's, and then vtune the bike again to dial in the new values.   

[rbabos]

Why would youy decrease timing in areas where knock is not sensed or retard is recorded?
Thanks for you wisdom.......

It will also smooth the areas you mentioned in your first post. Timing, fuel, one or the other, or both sometimes. Max timing in light load usually isn't your friend.
Ron

[strokerjlk]

I would look into a different baffle.  This isn't what I call a bandaid.  I call this addressing the culprit of your problem.  I think you will make better power and tq also.

A different baffle (back pressure) will most likely raise them. What's remaining can be bandaided with the egr table..

I agree that making an adjustment to the baffle is the best way to improve the light throttle issues.  I also agree with making adjustments to the egr table once the baffle issue is addressed. 

The first step to addressing you tune issue should be the baffle, since no adjustments to the calibration will fix an issue with airflow (in coming and out going).  If you are reluctant to address your exhaust issue, you could try adding 30% to the egr table values on both cylinders from 0-2,800 rpm's, and then vtune the bike again to dial in the new values.

good suggestion.
but the baffle can remain ,and the surging eliminated without egr adjustments also. (there are a lot worse combinations believe me)
to do so we need more info ,where is it at exactly? rpm/ kpa ?  what is the actual afr at? what kpa does the bike idle at?
paul
if a bandaid fixs the problem ( if that is what you want to call it) why do surgery?
in the end you are not stock and chances are  you will have a problem area running closed loop somewhere. just dont run it there. you can still run closed loop everywhere else if you choose.

[Paul in Alaska]

https://www.box.com/s/fjdjclhxmv40cwicgb2c
Try This..should be the map I am using...
Let me know.
Thanks

I see a big lean holes in the problem area you mentioned. Do a compare to orignal and you will see the low numbers in blue. Chase them up with egr table.
Ron

How are you identifiying these big lean holes?

[rbabos]

https://www.box.com/s/fjdjclhxmv40cwicgb2c
Try This..should be the map I am using...
Let me know.
Thanks

I see a big lean holes in the problem area you mentioned. Do a compare to orignal and you will see the low numbers in blue. Chase them up with egr table.
Ron

How are you identifiying these big lean holes?

Well my opinion only it seems. Maybe best to ignore me in that case.
Ve tables are not linear enough and seem too low in those areas is what caught my eye. I do stand firm on my timing comment, however.
Ron

[Paul in Alaska]

6 vtune runs and I have a bit of surge and miss below 2500 RPM with light load.

your gonna need more v tune runs than that.
Ron and coyote are in the real world on this.

No more surge and miss. Reduced outlet of pipe by 1/4 inch and problem gone. Modified timing and lambda and my first ride this year was good. Today, 38 degrees...now to re vtune and massage the timing.....