Does TTS lock out HD's Digital Tech

[FLTRI]

..as I said not many know anything about a TTS or have even heard of one

...unless they own a Dyno.
Bob

[HV]

I know a lot that have Dynos and use nothing but SESPT or Power commander units... and have no clue WTF a TTS is

If they ride in with a lost FOB or Brake issue and can not fix it because something has locked the ECM is BS

[wurk_truk]

I'm NOT going to keep everyone's MTE, I am going to post those MTEs in the TTS repository for the next guy, along with a thumb drive with it all on it.

That is NOT going to help "Potty mouth" when someone is out of town.  I do NOT expect a dealer to have, nor know how to run ANY tuning program.  Even SEPST.  Maybe SEST is about it.  This is an issue, I figure.  If TTS sells thousands of units yearly, which they do... and we on ALL the forums number a few thousand.  There are tens of thousands of folks that have NO clue whats going on.

ANd Mike....  Delhi wrote 'word', the folks that make the base cals is using 'word' to make a document.  That 'document' is SURELY intellectual property, even if they used Word to write it with.  Stealing any base cals that have identifiable markers would be theft of intellectual property.  Delhi made the base cals with MOCO.  Steve, with the SERT, made the first of all of the different base cals.  Steve has the only PC that has Delphi's "Word' on it.     SO, if I take your document, written in Word, and NO ONE else HAS Word, but uses adobe to steal and publish my results, that's OK?  I fully well realize that even SC has done the fast and loose.  But two weeks ago, he ran a Dyna with ten different cams with two different exhausts.  Isn't THAT his property?  Isn't it HIS property if he turns off torque management using his delphi tool that a distributor has NO frigging access to?  See?  We all KNOW who is doing this, too.

[wurk_truk]

Brian, where you are located is NOT typical... you know this, right?  Dealers around here know all the various tuners, they may have only of heard of them, but they know.  Now...  I 100% AGREE... if TTS locks out brakes, fobs etc.  THAT is BS.

We need to get Robin to test this all out.  Because, you, Brian, make it sound like that IS the deal when it is not necessarily so.  You are just making WAGs.

Saying that TTS does this for intellectual integrity for tuners tunes is also ludicrous.  I, me, was THE person to report on MT8s here on HTT.  There was NO mention at all that an MT8 used multiple sections of the ECM to stop...  dealers from erasing custom tunes....  I call BS on THAT one for sure.

[ToBeFrank]

ANd Mike....  Delhi wrote 'word', the folks that make the base cals is using 'word' to make a document.  That 'document' is SURELY intellectual property, even if they used Word to write it with.

Your analogy is not correct. To make it correct, you'd have to say Delphi wrote 'word', and created a document with it. Then someone else came along, modified Delphi's document, and then distributed it as their own document. Unless an agreement has been made, the new document is still Delphi's IP.

[HV]

Wurk  yes true where I am is not the norm... HOWEVER ...I have attended Harley training centers from all across Canada  East to west Coast and including taught by Engineers from the Factory ..as well as talked to Techs involved with apprenticeship training all across the country...and trust me... Id safely say 70 to 80 % have never heard of a TTS or HTT for that matter... 

[rigidthumper]

Brian, where you are located is NOT typical... you know this, right?  Dealers around here know all the various tuners, they may have only of heard of them, but they know.  Now...  I 100% AGREE... if TTS locks out brakes, fobs etc.  THAT is BS.

We need to get Robin to test this all out.  Because, you, Brian, make it sound like that IS the deal when it is not necessarily so.  You are just making WAGs.

Saying that TTS does this for intellectual integrity for tuners tunes is also ludicrous.  I, me, was THE person to report on MT8s here on HTT.  There was NO mention at all that an MT8 used multiple sections of the ECM to stop...  dealers from erasing custom tunes....  I call BS on THAT one for sure.

OK- what do you need done?
I have a 2010 Touring model with ABS  and radio w/boom audio amp.
I have the TTS dongle, as well as the SEPST VCI,married to this bike. MTE stored. I have TR Centurian and Direct Link, PC5, PC Autotune WB, TS2+ and TS3, WEGO, ETC.

What tests do you want to see?
Robin

[mayor]

OK- what do you need done?
I have a 2010 Touring model with ABS  and radio w/boom audio amp.
I have the TTS dongle, as well as the SEPST VCI,married to this bike. MTE stored. I have TR Centurian and Direct Link, PC5, PC Autotune WB, TS2+ and TS3, WEGO, ETC.

What tests do you want to see?
Robin

can you verify that digital tech can be used to work on abs with a bike that has been mt8 flashed? 

[HV]

Flash a Radio update or Calibration ...and update the ABS or power bleed the ABS using a DT wile the MT8 flash is in the ECM...get a local tech to try ...

[HV]

DT doesn't actually bleed fluid..just cycles the ASB Module to rid it of air ..system remains closed

[Coyote]

Also can you assign a new key fob or marry a hfsm or tssm with an mt8 loaded 

[ToBeFrank]

The test I think is more relevant is to run some of the DT diagnostic tools. I think most of them require unlocking the ECM (again, security-wise, not TTS lock). Clearing AFV definitely does. I'd think it's very likely a tech will run one of those and if it doesn't work, will think the ECM is bad.

[rbabos]

Wurk  yes true where I am is not the norm... HOWEVER ...I have attended Harley training centers from all across Canada  East to west Coast and including taught by Engineers from the Factory ..as well as talked to Techs involved with apprenticeship training all across the country...and trust me... Id safely say 70 to 80 % have never heard of a TTS or HTT for that matter... 

I'd agree. Southern Ontario is the most populated and practically nobody knows about the TTS. Most get dealer tunes and ride on, most of them don't know a good tune from bad unless it's really fkd up. I'd be most don't know what a PV is either. Forums are a really small % of what's really going on out there and so is the info within these forums. Otherwords 99% of Harley riders are fat dumb and happy. Us 1% drive ourselves nuts with tuning or whatever is posted as the latest and greatest. Strangley enough almost every rider knows what a Power Commander is.
Ron

[HV]

Ron I have to agree ...you ask most riders what they would use to tune a bike and they will say a Power Commander ( not that they know WTF it is or how it works ) ... most Dealers use a SESPT and have no clue how to Smart tune with it.... Id safely say I have the only PV in the Atlantic Provinces or even know WTF one is..     A bud just got back from the HD Training in Alberta....of ALL the guys there NONE had a clue how to smart tune ..and no one had heard of a PV or a TTS 

[lonewolf]

  A bud just got back from the HD Training in Alberta....of ALL the guys there NONE had a clue how to smart tune ..and no one had heard of a PV or a TTS

Or Andrews, Woods, Tman, Baisley etc.

[FLTRI]

Robin,
Other than reprogram the ECM, what else does using this calibration (MT8) "lock out" of dealer tech/DT access to?
Thanks,
Bob

[mayor]

Other than reprogram the ECM, what else does using this calibration (MT8) "lock out" of dealer tech/DT access to?

my question exactly.  If it's only the calibration in the ecm, then this likely isn't a big deal (unless you bought a bike with a locked ecm that you want to upgrade, like coyote's old bike).   

[wolf_59]

Other than reprogram the ECM, what else does using this calibration (MT8) "lock out" of dealer tech/DT access to?

my question exactly.  If it's only the calibration in the ecm, then this likely isn't a big deal (unless you bought a bike with a locked ecm that you want to upgrade, like coyote's old bike).   

Even then would a Power Commander, SEPST, Direct Link, Power Vision tune over the top of a MT8 cal. ?

[FLTRI]

...(unless you bought a bike with a locked ecm that you want to upgrade, like coyote's old bike).

When/if that occurs a quick call to TTS will resolve it one way or another...but resolved...unlike SESPT which has no public access to customer support at all.

With SESPT you soon realize you are on your own. AFAIK this is the only piece of publicly available software that has no tech service for their product.

That said, presenting a dealer with a SESPT tuning issue will, at best, will generate a call to Tech Services. They, in turn, contact SPX/Kent-Moore with their interpretation of the issue that was related to them from the user. If there is no question needed to be answered before offering a resolve...maybe, just maybe, you will get an answer/possible resolve in a couple days.

Typically it has been a complete waste of breath and time as there is no direct connect from the customer to technical help from the MOCO. Too much hear one thing, say something else, etc.
Just my experiences,
Bob

[HV]

We all know tech support for the SESPT does not exist ...whats that got to do with finding out if a TTS locks a DT out of the ECM ? ...or is that a shot at changing the subject ? 

[ToBeFrank]

Other than reprogram the ECM, what else does using this calibration (MT8) "lock out" of dealer tech/DT access to?

my question exactly.  If it's only the calibration in the ecm, then this likely isn't a big deal (unless you bought a bike with a locked ecm that you want to upgrade, like coyote's old bike).   

Even then would a Power Commander, SEPST, Direct Link, Power Vision tune over the top of a MT8 cal. ?

A power commander? Yes, because it's a piggyback. The others? No. Anything that needs to program the ECM is locked out.

[wolf_59]

Other than reprogram the ECM, what else does using this calibration (MT8) "lock out" of dealer tech/DT access to?

my question exactly.  If it's only the calibration in the ecm, then this likely isn't a big deal (unless you bought a bike with a locked ecm that you want to upgrade, like coyote's old bike).   

Even then would a Power Commander, SEPST, Direct Link, Power Vision tune over the top of a MT8 cal. ?

A power commander? Yes, because it's a piggyback. The others? No. Anything that needs to program the ECM is locked out.

Thanks Frank that is what I thought on the Power Commander just wasn't sure on the others

[rigidthumper]

I can check.  You just want ABS brake bleed procedure via DT verified with TTS MT8 map in the ECM?
Flash a Radio update or Calibration: will check
Robin,
Other than reprogram the ECM, what else does using this calibration (MT8) "lock out" of dealer tech/DT access to?
Thanks,
Bob- Ill try to determine that exactly.

[Coyote]

I can check.  You just want ABS brake bleed procedure via DT verified with TTS MT8 map in the ECM?

I'm guessing the abs bleed is going to work since it's a separate processor but I suspect the other items may not.

Also can you assign a new key fob or marry a hfsm or tssm with an mt8 loaded 

[rigidthumper]

Also can you assign a new key fob or marry a hfsm or tssm with an mt8 loaded
Ill check that, too.