Static Timing review

[HotRodShovel]

I know we've gone over this and then some, however since my issues are repeated I want to double check with the rest of you who know.
Ok dual plugged, two coils, dual fire DynaS Ignition, T & O wheels.
Front TDC marking verified to be true.
Set front piston at 33deg ( 35 mark leaving hole)
Test light clipped on blue ignition wire coil terminal. (Not hot). Point to ground
Switch power on
Rotate center lobe counter clockwise opening advance weights
Rotate back plate until light is powered
Lock it down.
If this is correct it is about the same place I had it set prior to piston burnout.
This is crucial. I was hoping for a big difference. At least I would know what went wrong.  But I'm not firing this bad boy until I'm sure it's right.
Heads are still off by the way, I want to watch piston position.

[Ohio HD]

Generally speaking, I used to set dual plugged heads at about 5 to 10 degrees retarded, or 30 to 25 degrees. Motors with more compression, or didn't want to crank over to start, I retarded a little more to 25.

I think it would be beneficial to hear what Scott and Kirby think for your timing needs. Both have way more experience than I do, but that was always a workable solution for the motors I built. Hopefully they will stop in.

[billbuilds]

     John, I would really wait until you had the heads on. This way you can be sure that you are setting timing on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke. Remember, the flywheels turn twice to the cams once for a complete suck, squeeze, bang, blow sequence.  The Dyna-S installation/timing instructions PDF for cone motor HD's is to big to post here. I'll try PM-ing them to you. Bill

[Ohio HD]

You just ave to watch the tappets, you don't need the heads on. With the troubles that he's had, I think I'd want to validate the flywheel marks against the piston location anyway with a depth indicator. That could even be the smoking gun in all this if the marks are off.

With the problems he's experienced, I would be blue printing all of the relevant parts of the motor, to guarantee that it doesn't happen again.

[HotRodShovel]

Yes  fer sure on that Ohio & Bill.. I just bolted up the heads and pushrods.   Will check that again.     Kirby did stress that to me also.

just to add:  the front TDC mark is in place. so the 35deg mark seems correct.   Ohio, thats why I'm being very cautious and proceeding slowly.  There has to be a reason and I don't want to repeat it if it was in fact my error. Don't know at this point. 

Just for clarification, to male sure I'm on target, what tappet is down on the compression stroke, the intake or exhaust ( talking front)

[easyricer]

John, I know when I installed the dual plugs (Dyna S single fire with 2 double tower Dyna coils) in mine, it was a waste of time using the manual to static time it. Was too far advanced and kicked me back pretty hard on the kicker. I retarded it and it was much better. I believe I am close to 25 degrees on mine. (haven't checked it, I rode around playing with the timing until I felt it was right. It's quite a bit more retarded than what I'm used to setting my points timing at.)
EASY

[HotRodShovel]

After talking with Shovel Bill today I timed it at about 30 ( just eyeballed it) to retard it. 
Even so my module plate is almost exactly in the same spot as before.  Nearly all of the adjustment slots are taken up as though it was turned completely clockwise then backed off by 1/8".

[76shuvlinoff]

Dual plugged heads in my 93, I have the Dyna 2ki electronic module cranked over as retarded as I can turn it. with 212 psi hot any advancement from there would ping. (no voes). With the new cam and 185 psi I might be able to give it hair of advancement.  My timing has always been set the redneck way. Advance till it pings and back it off till it doesn't.

Good luck John

- Mark

[Ohio HD]

Yes  fer sure on that Ohio & Bill.. I just bolted up the heads and pushrods.   Will check that again.     Kirby did stress that to me also.

just to add:  the front TDC mark is in place. so the 35deg mark seems correct.   Ohio, thats why I'm being very cautious and proceeding slowly.  There has to be a reason and I don't want to repeat it if it was in fact my error. Don't know at this point. 

Just for clarification, to male sure I'm on target, what tappet is down on the compression stroke, the intake or exhaust ( talking front)

Just after the intake closes, your starting compression stroke. Both valves down. 

You need a degree wheel to validate those flywheel marks, or you need to have the 35 degree mark in the window, and know what the piston depth should be. And you need to be sure that the mark is supposed to be 35 degrees, and I know we think it is, but, I've not used T&O wheels before, so a phone call never hurts.

[HotRodShovel]

I had my bottom end at Kirby's shop and he degree wheeled it and verified the marks were all good.
I'm just gun shy at this point and double checking everything I do. Taking this one slow...
Thanks for the input.  Always appreciated. 

[Ohio HD]

I had my bottom end at Kirby's shop and he degree wheeled it and verified the marks were all good.
I'm just gun shy at this point and double checking everything I do. Taking this one slow...
Thanks for the input.  Always appreciated.

Cool, that takes a variable out of the equation.

[Ohio HD]

One thing that you can do to help validate your timing after you start it up. What I used to do was take a 3/16" drill bit and while the motor was apart, make slight depressions with the bit, just the depth of the flute, and then paint one red, one white. I was doing this at 30 degrees and 25 degrees. Then if I needed or wanted to use a timing light, ha, lots of oil in the face, I could.

Since you have it together, and I don't remember if this is a generator or an alternator. If it's alternator, mark on the rotor and the inner primary as 35 degree, 30 degree and a 25 degree mark. Then you can check it with a timing light, and not get a face full of oil.

[HotRodShovel]

I have an alt with a belt drive inside a tin primary.  I marked the alt and case at the 35 & 30 ( estimated the 30). But I can take off the inspection cover and look right in.  If there is oil in there then I have a seal leaking....

[billbuilds]

    Ok, Ohio make a  good point about tappet location to determine TDC on compression stroke. If you know that your TDC mark is truly a TDC  and that the advance mark is truly at 35 degree then you should be all set. Sorry but the Dyna-S instruction file was too big to put on here. If you Google Harley Dyna-S you can come up with it easy enough. Those instructions say to time it using the advance mark. I'd highly recommend that you take a look at them.  Bill

[HotRodShovel]

Yes I have them both hard copy and PDF. Thanks Bill..By the way I sent you a message re the 4020.  Let me know.

[shovelbill]

Yes I have them both hard copy and PDF. Thanks Bill..By the way I sent you a message re the 4020.  Let me know.

John.....I hope I didn't give you wrong info on the procedure.......as Bill stated the advance mark is used. on stock wheels it's a vertical line......yours may be a 3/5 or 35....... I know you said you verified TDC with Kirby and a degree wheel. I should not have assumed the marks.

[HotRodShovel]

Not at all Bill. You were on point.  As always.