Tuning and 02 sensors

[strokerjlk]

That's the problem with a blanket of closed loop,covering the majority of the  map .one bad apple spoils the whole darn map.

Yep. That's precisely why any full-time 100% closed loop system doesn't work.
Bob

How come all the maps I see from the dyno v tuners are all closed loop to 80 kpa then?
From idle to 3500/4000 rpms and out to 80 kpa .
It's almost like they think closed loop is magic. And covers a multitude of sins. 

[FLTRI]

How come all the maps I see from the dyno v tuners are all closed loop to 80 kpa then?
From idle to 3500/4000 rpms and out to 80 kpa .

I cannot comment on why all dyno "v-tuner" calibrations you look at are set the way you stated but there are certainly stage1 and mild builds that can be in closed loop 80-90% of the time without ANY negative issues.

A few more of our closed loop experiences:
We have found once the O2 signalling is reliable closed loop works very well...everywhere.

We have found that if the O2 sensors cannot receive reliable signalling in certain areas the system can be left in open loop in that/those area(s) without eliminating the features and benefits of closed loop cruise AFR control.

We have found most all open loop tunes are set considerably richer than necessary...sometimes by as much as 2 AFR!

We have not found an engine runs better @ 12.5-13.0 AFR than 14.0-14.4 AFR @ cruise...just better fuel mileage.

We have found no increased heat from running an engine @ 14.0-14.4 rather than 12-13 AFR @ cruise...just better mileage.
As always, JMHO,
Bob

[strokerjlk]

Who would run 12.5 13.0 at cruise wow
You left out the one where you say (we)  found 14.0 Afr and 12.5 Afr to make the same power at wot .
And that we found we can run 16.0 at cruise . Just a little discomfort from the heat.
You still gonna stick to those statements also?

[FLTRI]

Who would run 12.5 13.0 at cruise wow

More than a few open loop tunes have come to us for tuning. Most of the open loopers seem to believe rich is safe...so richer is safer.

You left out the one where you say (we)  found 14.0 Afr and 12.5 Afr to make the same power at wot .

Absolutely. Back-to-back testing many times has shown no improvement to peak power between 12.5-14:1. The reason for running richer than 14:1 is to control combustion temperature so detonation isn't created from,excessive combustion temps.

And that we found we can run 16.0 at cruise.

Now you're just making things up or are you merely baiting me again? 
I clearly stated you can safely run 15:1 @less than 30kpa on a stock engine.

[strokerjlk]

Now you're just making things up or are you merely baiting me again? 
I clearly stated you can safely run 15:1 @less than 30kpa on a stock engine.

Ok you didn't say it . But you agreed with the one that did.

Absolutely. Back-to-back testing many times has shown no improvement to peak power between 12.5-14:1. The reason for running richer than 14:1 is to control combustion temperature so detonation isn't created from,excessive combustion temps.

We don't see that at all
And neither does anyone else. So BS on that theory.

[BVHOG]

Now you're just making things up or are you merely baiting me again? 
I clearly stated you can safely run 15:1 @less than 30kpa on a stock engine.

Ok you didn't say it . But you agreed with the one that did.

Absolutely. Back-to-back testing many times has shown no improvement to peak power between 12.5-14:1. The reason for running richer than 14:1 is to control combustion temperature so detonation isn't created from,excessive combustion temps.

We don't see that at all
And neither does anyone else. So BS on that theory.

FLTRI, I have seen many times that you stated 13.2 to 1 afr was the best for wot power. No BS there.  And now you are telling us that under almost no load conditions super lean is ok. 
But aren't you the one who thought it harmful to let a bike come down slowly from a wot dyno run?

[FLTRI]

You both always forget to add the  to your posts.

You two have dynos.
Do a little testing of peak power @ AFRs between 14.0 and 12.5.
Come back and post dyno results. (be sure to include then AFR graphs  )
Bob

[strokerjlk]

I have posted the Afr and ve's cell for cell
Go back and read .
Ifastrk or eric asked for them .
I guess you never seen a lean or rich dip before.

[07heri]

So much for the bung issue on the Softails.     Miller time!