Progressive 444 - Going back to stock

[Jim Bronson]

After 1000 mi, it's clear to me that the modestly improved handling of these shocks isn't worth the beating my back is taking. I've actually started raising my butt up off the seat when approaching bumps in order to minimize the jolts. They're coming off the Dyna, and I'm going back to stock. Too bad.

[Ohio HD]

I know they're stiff, I have the 440's on my SG, I have them turned to 7 turns from softest position, 10 turns is firmest. I'm no little guy, and I thought last night after riding, I should turn those back a turn and see how they are. They're stiff that's for sure. But in my case, I like them, and only have about 2-1/2" travel anyway. Stock shocks used to bottom easily.

[Rugby_fxdwg]

After 1000 mi, it's clear to me that the modestly improved handling of these shocks isn't worth the beating my back is taking. I've actually started raising my butt up off the seat when approaching bumps in order to minimize the jolts. They're coming off the Dyna, and I'm going back to stock. Too bad.

Did you get the heavy Duty shocks?

[Jim Bronson]

After 1000 mi, it's clear to me that the modestly improved handling of these shocks isn't worth the beating my back is taking. I've actually started raising my butt up off the seat when approaching bumps in order to minimize the jolts. They're coming off the Dyna, and I'm going back to stock. Too bad.

Did you get the heavy Duty shocks?

No, they're the standard version, set to minimum preload. They would probably be fine on a heavier bike, but still too stiff for a Dyna, IMO. With the stockers, I have to set them a couple of clicks from the softest setting to avoid bottoming out in my driveway, but the 444s aren't even close to bottoming out even on the softest setting.

[chopper]

If you decide to sell them , I'd be interested.

[Jim Bronson]

If you decide to sell them , I'd be interested.

I'll let you know. I plan on changing them this week. Thanks.

[04 SE Deuce]

Jim,  You've had them on there long enough to know.  Did you talk to Progressive about doing any mods?  I know they don't have a spring rate that is ideal for you but the spring rate didn't seem totally unsuited, I figured about 10-13% off.  The rep. I talked to (Frank 230lb.) claimed that they would do mods (valving) to make it right and that the spring rate is for 200-250lb. riders.  If they backed off the compression damping alone it would help.  He claimed that he rode a Dyna that they have with 444's and could not feel the botts dots (reflectors) on the highway,  sounded about as lofty as that breezy Progressive video that claimed the 444's give the best ride,  including all competitive brands. 

Would be nice to see what Progressive could/would do with them prior to returning them.  Progressive is in La Palma,  I can't remember but was thinking you are in SoCal IIRC.   Rick

[Jim Bronson]

Rick, I wasn't aware they could make adjustments like that. I'll give them a call and see what they can do. Yes, I'm in SoCal. In any case, they're coming off. Thanks. Maybe there's still hope. Stay tuned.

[04 SE Deuce]

I kinda mentioned it in your other thread but I babble too much so it's easily overlooked.  If they backed off the compression damping and let the springs work,  the shocks wouldn't spike your back as hard.  If possible leaving the rebound damping alone should keep it from wallowing.  I would be interested to see if they will take care of you (like I was told),  the response depends on which phone jockey you get...may have to step up the staff ladder if necessary.  They should be able to get their "magic carpet" shocks into the tolerable range, even for a rider with a priority on ride quality.     Rick

[Jeffd]

This guy did right by me on my 940's

Kyle R. Knight
714-367-1854X216

[sharkoilfield]

This is interesting; I had a set of 418's on my FXDXT some time ago and they were too stiff for me solo...Progressive said there was no "softer" spring available...I had a set of 444's on order for the wife but they were out of stock at my distributor; think I'll leave the order cancelled and start looking at other brands. They did "make up" a nice pair of 412's for a brothers bike but he's 300+

[04 SE Deuce]

This is interesting; I had a set of 418's on my FXDXT some time ago and they were too stiff for me solo...Progressive said there was no "softer" spring available...I had a set of 444's on order for the wife but they were out of stock at my distributor; think I'll leave the order cancelled and start looking at other brands. They did "make up" a nice pair of 412's for a brothers bike but he's 300+

  Looks like they shoot for 200-250lb rider with the standard and 250lb+ for the HD and don't have springs to deviate from there.  I thought about asking how they expect women to use their product,  guess they figure not that many women changing shocks.  My thoughts is if their "standard" spring is for 200-250lb, they should have a "light" that would target 150-200, lot of guys in that weight range that are into performance and like to get up on it and ride..not just sit there like a pile of pork BWDIK.   Rick

[Jim Bronson]

I called Progressive, and they basically said that they can't be reworked except for a softer spring, and they don't have one that would be softer.

I began to remove them, and I noticed something interesting. The trim pieces that fit over the upper part of the shocks are chafing on the shock. You can see it on the photo, especially on the left one. The trim is no doubt restricting the movement somewhat, so I'm going to put them back on without the trim piece, as a last resort. Later Dynas don't have these trim pieces.

The photo makes it appear that the bag attach points are in the way, but they really aren't. They clear by several inches.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[04 SE Deuce]

Jim, Did you go beyond the first phone jockey to answer the phone?   Some of those aren't worth their weight in petrified dog crap.  Rick

[Ohio HD]

I'm sure that this is just an optical illusion, but it sure looks like the shocks are angling inwards towards the bottom.

[Rags722]

I called Progressive, and they basically said that they can't be reworked except for a softer spring, and they don't have one that would be softer.

I began to remove them, and I noticed something interesting. The trim pieces that fit over the upper part of the shocks are chafing on the shock. You can see it on the photo, especially on the left one. The trim is no doubt restricting the movement somewhat, so I'm going to put them back on without the trim piece, as a last resort. Later Dynas don't have these trim pieces.

The photo makes it appear that the bag attach points are in the way, but they really aren't. They clear by several inches.

I hate to say this, and it may just be an optical illusion, but the photo makes it look like the shocks are wider apart at the top than at the bottom.  If that is the case, there IS NO WAY THEY CAN FUNCTION CORRECTLY.  Are you positive you used the correct spacers in the correct stack up and paid attention to which side of the shock you have the shouldered spacer on?  If they are rubbing on the covers and look to be wider at the top, you could have them so misaligned that they can not go through their range of travel.  I sort of doubt PS shipped a product that rubs on the cover of a bike that is known to have covers.

Edit, Ohio, looks like we both spotted the same thing.  I know the 444's ship with a bunch of bushings and spacers, and each bike needs a different combination of spacers/bushings to work right for the model.  I think if this is not an optical illusion, there may be a red face running around soon.

[Ohio HD]

I called Progressive, and they basically said that they can't be reworked except for a softer spring, and they don't have one that would be softer.

I began to remove them, and I noticed something interesting. The trim pieces that fit over the upper part of the shocks are chafing on the shock. You can see it on the photo, especially on the left one. The trim is no doubt restricting the movement somewhat, so I'm going to put them back on without the trim piece, as a last resort. Later Dynas don't have these trim pieces.

The photo makes it appear that the bag attach points are in the way, but they really aren't. They clear by several inches.

I hate to say this, and it may just be an optical illusion, but the photo makes it look like the shocks are wider apart at the top than at the bottom.  If that is the case, there IS NO WAY THEY CAN FUNCTION CORRECTLY.  Are you positive you used the correct spacers in the correct stack up and paid attention to which side of the shock you have the shouldered spacer on?  If they are rubbing on the covers and look to be wider at the top, you could have them so misaligned that they can not go through their range of travel.  I sort of doubt PS shipped a product that rubs on the cover of a bike that is known to have covers.

Edit, Ohio, looks like we both spotted the same thing.  I know the 444's ship with a bunch of bushings and spacers, and each bike needs a different combination of spacers/bushings to work right for the model.  I think if this is not an optical illusion, there may be a red face running around soon.

Ha, you he can join the club then...      I've been there too.

[Rags722]

I just opened the picture with PAINT and blew it up 400%.  There is no way the upper shock is mounted at 90  degrees to the shock mount.  Looks like every spacer and washer in the kit was put on. 

Jim, send the photo to Progressive and ask them to tell you what is wrong.

[04 SE Deuce]

I think it's just camera angle.   Rick

[Rags722]

After blowing it up and looking just at the top eye to post relationship, I doubt it's camera angle.

Jim.. this picture is for an FLHT and other bikes ( Not a newer Dyna, they would be a different kit ) The important thing to see is that you don't use everything that came in the installation kit, just what applies to YOUR bike and the relationship of the shoulder on the one piece is critical to alignment.  You may want to go back over your installation to see if you might have misunderstood what parts and the order they wanted stuff to go back in.



[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Jim Bronson]

The instructions are pretty clear on which sleeves to use, and they include a photo showing the insertion on both sides of the shock eye. They include non-shoulder sleeves for FXDX/T only, and shouldered sleeves for all others. There are no other washers or sleeves in the kit, so I'm certain I used the correct sleeves per the instruction.

As far as the shocks not being parallel, It is part optical illusion and party correct. I took a shot with the top bolt tightened and the bottom bolt inserted through the eye with the original spacer on it and without the nut. As can be seen, there is about a 5/32 inch gap that is taken up when the bolt is tightened. The question is whether the gap is enough to bother the operation of the shocks. If so, I'll need to find a thicker spacer somewhere.



[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[04 SE Deuce]

My comprehension is poor or the story has changed as I was just told the valving wouldn't be modified. 

Jim you can call Frank or Kyle at Progressive and get a RMA # to send them back or deliver in person and they will put the shocks on a dyno and go from there,  said 2-4 business days,  would not say for sure that they would source a lighter set of springs. 

Might be interesting to see what they say/do once in their hands, and it's beyond the talking stage.   Rick 

[Jim Bronson]

Frank is the one I talked to this morning. He advised to check for binding, but beyond that he said there are no mods they could do. I want to make sure I exhaust all possible remedies I can before I consider sending them back. I'll try to find a thicker spacer, and I'll also need a longer bolt. There's a saddlebag support that attaches under the head of the bolt (not shown in the photos) that will require about a 1/4 inch longer bolt. I doubt the dealer will have this stuff, but there's a giant hardware store nearby that may have them.

Thanks for the feedback!

[04 SE Deuce]

Yeah,  Frank is the one that mentioned that a dry lube package came with the shocks,  which as you know doesn't and a different rep. told you the bushings are self lubing...yada yada.  Same question, 2 different reps, 2 different answers, and sometimes,  same question twice to same rep, 2 different answers.  Enough lip service, time to make it right....if possible.  If they can't do it then get a refund and consider buying some shocks that can be sprung/built for your weight.  Compression and rebound adjusters are nice but more $.   Rick

[Jim Bronson]

I sent them an email with all the photos, so we'll see what happens.