What to do...

[wnogood]

Well, my gaterman lifters aren't quite the 'cats meow' that they were claimed to be. Thinking about trying a set of s&s. I'm really getting tired of changing lifters. All factors point to excessive bleed off. Any suggestions....

[Jaycee1964]

Do you have a Bailey spring and valve in it?  Helped mine quite a bit.  There is no perfect lifter except at Victoria Secret

[Jeffd]

Is this the 3rd set of lifters you have had problems with?  I would be looking for the root cause instead of throwing money at lifters. 

[Ohio HD]

I don't know how loud the noise you hear is. But I know that the 48's I had in my SG were not as quite as stock. They had a slight mechanical lifter sound in the 2,000 to 2,800 RPM range. And then again around 4,000 RPM. Nothing that concerned me, as the cams have a little more aggressive lobe profile than a stock set of cams. At idle, I can't remember if they were any noisier than stock, probably not or I would have remembered it.

[wnogood]

Is this the 3rd set of lifters you have had problems with?  I would be looking for the root cause instead of throwing money at lifters.

How much root cause can there be? I have good oil pressure per the gauge, over half way idling cold, 15-20 psi hot idle, (Ive got the upgrade pump for the hydraulic plate) Other than oil pressure, what else is there?

The cam/plate/oil pump/lifter/pushrod/tune is when it started. The bike was pretty well silent with the stock plate with the troublesome tensioners, SE 253 cams, "B" lifters, stock pushrods, and stock pump. I didnt increase the lift on the cams much ( .018 ) but the ramps are steeper.

[wnogood]

I don't know how loud the noise you hear is. But I know that the 48's I had in my SG were not as quite as stock. They had a slight mechanical lifter sound in the 2,000 to 2,800 RPM range. And then again around 4,000 RPM. Nothing that concerned me, as the cams have a little more aggressive lobe profile than a stock set of cams. At idle, I can't remember if they were any noisier than stock, probably not or I would have remembered it.

Quite a bit of the "Sewing machine" chatter. I can live with that. But the occasional "Tick tick tick" Is worrysome. If all I had was the "Chatter" I would have long since forgotten it. (Correct me if Im wrong) But the Tick tick tick isnt a normal thing....

[Ohio HD]

No, a tick, tick, tick, is usually too much clearance somewhere, or something hitting that shouldn't be. I assume that you did all the checking for push rod interference, rocker arms hitting anywhere, etc? When you've had the motor open, looked as best you could at oil passages and blow / clean them out?

Something just doesn't sound right (no pun intended), you don't get three bad sets of lifters.     

[wnogood]

No, a tick, tick, tick, is usually too much clearance somewhere, or something hitting that shouldn't be. I assume that you did all the checking for push rod interference, rocker arms hitting anywhere, etc? When you've had the motor open, looked as best you could at oil passages and blow / clean them out?

Something just doesn't sound right (no pun intended), you don't get three bad sets of lifters.     

The key ingredient here (As I see it) is that the engine is oh so quiet when its cold. Really, really quiet. But the warmer it gets, the more noise it makes. It doesnt get to its loudest until youve ridden about 100+ miles. It follows the trend of "Oil thins out, lifters bleed off, tick tick" Its almost textbook...

[wnogood]

Could I have monkey'd something up in the cam chest somehow? I replaced pretty much everything in there....

[No Cents]

you sure a p/rod isn't touching somewhere? I always push and hold the rocker arm supports to the cam side while torquing them down...this helps center the p/rod more in the upper tube and gives extra side clearance. I also run a 41/64" drill bit thru the inner p/rod tube for extra rod clearance.
I chased the same tick your talking about once. I did what I suggested above...the tick was gone. TR (Tman) turned me on to it.
Hope this helps.

[wnogood]

you sure a p/rod isn't touching somewhere? I always push and hold the rocker arm supports to the cam side while torquing them down...this helps center the p/rod more in the upper tube and gives extra side clearance. I also run a 41/64" drill bit thru the inner p/rod tube for extra rod clearance.
I chased the same tick your talking about once. I did what I suggested above...the tick was gone. TR (Tman) turned me on to it.
Hope this helps.

I bought a 41/64 drill bit, way too big. Tried a 5/8 (Smaller) still way too big. Advice on the forum was that if I didnt have up and down marks on the pushrod, I didnt have contact. I did open up the top of the front exhaust tube (Had some very faint horizontal lines) with a burr bit, but at this point, I am wondering if the s&s tubes I got are smaller diameter than the stockers. If I drill them with a 41/64, there aint gonna be any tube left...

[Jeffd]

two things I would check first in order of ease.  the rocker box covers.  I know everyone said no way you are going to have contact but stranger things have happened and sometimes the cover does not get properly alligned as there is some play in rocker boxes.  the second is the oil plunger in the cam plate.  It would not be the first time a weak oil pressure spring or poor fitting piston/plunger whatever you want to call it caused ticking.  I know Doc used to say to get the baisley/lmr002 spring to help kill the ticking.  I just think you are chasing your tail if you have tried several sets of quality lifters already.  Actually 3 things go down and buy some Valvoline vr1 50 weight oil and try that.  That would be the easiest and it is relatively cheap for 3-4 quarts.

[No Cents]

you sure a p/rod isn't touching somewhere? I always push and hold the rocker arm supports to the cam side while torquing them down...this helps center the p/rod more in the upper tube and gives extra side clearance. I also run a 41/64" drill bit thru the inner p/rod tube for extra rod clearance.
I chased the same tick your talking about once. I did what I suggested above...the tick was gone. TR (Tman) turned me on to it.
Hope this helps.

I bought a 41/64 drill bit, way too big. Tried a 5/8 (Smaller) still way too big. Advice on the forum was that if I didnt have up and down marks on the pushrod, I didnt have contact. I did open up the top of the front exhaust tube (Had some very faint horizontal lines) with a burr bit, but at this point, I am wondering if the s&s tubes I got are smaller diameter than the stockers. If I drill them with a 41/64, there aint gonna be any tube left...

If you see "horizontal lines" at the top of the p/rod...you found at least one of your ticking noises...even though it's faint...thats rubbing and causes a tick...especially when hot!
When the engine gets hot...things grow in size. Close cold clearances can easily be gone when the engine is fully up to temp, and it is hot and running full song for many miles.
I run the 41/64" bit thru the SE tubes that come with the SE tapered p/rod kit...I dont know if S&S inner tubes are a different diameter or not. I also 2nd the Baisley 002 spring...it worked well for me in my 103" Stage 4 build.
Did you check the oil plunger in your camplate to make sure it's not sticking...they have been known to stick from time to time?

[Deye76]

I know you've had several threads so maybe this has been covered, but have you checked runout? You've exhausted lifters as the culprit, and think you've done due dilligence on the pr tubes. I've not had any luck using different oils. Runout (gear lash in my case) or cam profile has always been the cause. 

[Ohio HD]

I'm with Ray on this, where ever you see a mark from a rub, try to clean up what ever may be doing it. In the case of the push rod, after trying to open the tubes diameter at the flanges, heck use a Dremil, anything, , center the push rod by holding the rocker supports to one side, etc. , then move the push rod that has a mark, or put some dykem blue on the push rod and let it dry. That way you have a fresh surface to see if it's hitting later.

I bet it's a simple small place that's making contact. They're the hardest to find.   

[Thumper Buttercup]

We got a good ride out today, oil running 180 degrees, a small amount of noise nothing like in
the past.

I took our push rod tubes to a machinist and had him put them in a lath and then drilled them out.

Are you running Baisley's spring, that does make a difference.  Like I said the first time we ran
the Gaterman's we had a noise and took them out, later took them apart and found metal in one.

We cleaned them out and put them back in and it's running fine now.  I did replace the front piston
oiler and the front rocker arm and rod.

When you put the rocker arm supports in the bike did you pull them toward the push rod side to
help with alignment.

When you mounted the oil pump did your turn the rear tire with the bike in gear as you were tightening
up the pump to help with alignment?

A big one is how good a tune do you have on the bike, I noticed that our noise changed a lot running
different TTS tunes trying to self tune our bike.

Just putting some thoughts out there, our bike was very quiet today.

[wnogood]

Some of this is irrelevant. I've never had the rocker boxes open on my bike. Just the cam chest. I'm trying to be sherlock Holmes here, and whatever I did this last time was a huge improvement. Other than lifters, the only other thing I did was open up that one pushrod tube that had the marks on it. I thought about trying smaller diameter pushrods, like a 3/8. Not sure that 1/16 would be enough to matter...

[No Cents]

180*...that's one cool runner ya got there! 

[No Cents]

Some of this is irrelevant. I've never had the rocker boxes open on my bike. Just the cam chest. I'm trying to be sherlock Holmes here, and whatever I did this last time was a huge improvement. Other than lifters, the only other thing I did was open up that one pushrod tube that had the marks on it. I thought about trying smaller diameter pushrods, like a 3/8. Not sure that 1/16 would be enough to matter...

I think you have found your noise.
The p/rod with that mark...has to be making noise...probably the same mark on the other three also.

[Coyote]

There are marks on all 4 of my push rods in my bike and none of them are hitting anything.

[No Cents]

up and down rub marks...how did they get there then if they aren't rubbing?

[q1svt]

Some of this is irrelevant. I've never had the rocker boxes open on my bike. Just the cam chest.

Other than lifters, the only other thing I did was open up that one pushrod tube that had the marks on it. I thought about trying smaller diameter pushrods, like a 3/8. Not sure that 1/16 would be enough to matter...

Don't believe its a PR clearance issue its more likely a flexing problem.
I'm guessing that you're running the 7/16 SE adjustable pushrods???  If you are they're junk!  They allow you to install them without needing to remove the lifter cover.  the lower end of the PR flexes so much the PR will hit the inside of the tube.

If you have to run adjustable at least buy the Fueling or the Smith Brothers (they are the same so find the better price (SB makes them for Fueling), but you will need to R&R the lifter covers.

My first build the Indy put the SE 7/16 in and tic tic tic... put Smith TH712B-DD (non-adjustable) in and quiet like church (well except for the pipes) 

[Coyote]

up and down rub marks...how did they get there then if they aren't rubbing?

Who said anything about up and down marks?

[wnogood]

Some of this is irrelevant. I've never had the rocker boxes open on my bike. Just the cam chest. I'm trying to be sherlock Holmes here, and whatever I did this last time was a huge improvement. Other than lifters, the only other thing I did was open up that one pushrod tube that had the marks on it. I thought about trying smaller diameter pushrods, like a 3/8. Not sure that 1/16 would be enough to matter...

I think you have found your noise.
The p/rod with that mark...has to be making noise...probably the same mark on the other three also.

After I found the one that had marks on it, I looked very, very closely at the other 3. No marks. Not a a one. Yes, I am using the s&s 7/16 adjustable, but the lifter blocks have to come off. Not the quickee ones. Just adjustable. Crane makes a 3/8 that is reasonably priced.

[q1svt]

No marks. Not a a one. Yes, I am using the s&s 7/16 adjustable, but the lifter blocks have to come off. Not the quickee ones. Just adjustable.

I would leave them in (those S&S PR are better) and look elsewhere for the tic tic...