No Oil to Lifters & Top End

[danoflhrci]

I posted on Vtwin but wanted to throw this in the mixer here also. Always did a lot of good reading here!
I just did a cam change (Crane 310's) on my 02 FLHRCI. Double checked run out (.003) and everything else in the cam chest. All looked great. (Note: installed SE Hybrid kit a year ago). I was pretty meticulous with everything. The only thing that came off the oil pump was the 1st gyrator which went back in the same direction but possibly not on the same lobes. Went ahead & replaced o-ring at the bottom of the pump and the 2 at the side of the plate & did alignment with proper tools again.
She sounded great upon start up, but down the road after heating up I got a lot of valve train clatter, front & rear. As I was readjusting the pushrods they only had a light film of oil on them, not sopping wet as usual. Again, cold start up was fine but they obviously weren't pumping up down the road.
With the covers off I can see there's not the usual excessive oil up top or anywhere in the lifter cavity. The dummy light goes off right away and she's venting off the top & to the pan as it should. Drained the engine case completely (tilting the bike) after 24 hours of sitting. Got 4 ounces of clean oil out to the last drop. Oil level in the pan is good. I have 2 oil coolers, one off the engine to pan line & it's obviously scavenging as it should. Also have an oil cooler with a pressure gauge off the filter also getting oil with the pressures reading same as before this project (6-10 @ hot idle & mid 40's @ higher rpms). The filter was full of oil & replaced it anyway with same results.
So it seems the lubrication system is working as it should except for the lifter cavities on up. As said, I was pretty thorough & clean with assembly, but could it be something jammed a passage in the cam plate somewhere or could I have missed something. And if so, how could oil everywhere else still be moving as it should. Appreciate needed advice on this gig!!!

[HogBag]

After fitting a K&P oil filter on my bike I was shocked on how much crap got accumulated after a top end piston change. Maybe one or more of your lifters are gummed up with gasket "Potty mouth".

[Jaycee1964]

Is it on the front or rear cylinder?  Where is your oil presure at?  Bad piston oiler?  o-ring on the cam plate?

[lilchief]

I thought I was having this problem too, so I ran the bike without the cover on it, and it took just a little while for the oil to pump up the p rods, but next thing I knew, I had oil squirting all over coming out of the rockers. What a mess.

Lil' Chief

[Horizonmech]

 A very common problem is wrong oil pump stack up (assembly),or maybe you have a piece of crap stuck in the pressure relief valve or pinched an O-ring.......

[Sc00ter]

I thought I was having this problem too, so I ran the bike without the cover on it, and it took just a little while for the oil to pump up the p rods, but next thing I knew, I had oil squirting all over coming out of the rockers. What a mess.

Lil' Chief

Is it possible you did not wait long enough for the oil to reach the top end.  As Lil' Chief mentions, it can take a little while for the oil to purge the entire engine.  The last place you will see it is the top end.  It's likely this the issue....

[Geezer_Glider]

Pop a rocker cover and look for oil, didn't lose the clean-out plug on the top of the cam plate?
Just a thought,
R Meyer

[danoflhrci]

A question I would have on the pump; is there timing involved with the gerators? Do the flats on the inner & outer have to be in the same place? Like I said, the first one came out, I put it back in the same direction but maybe not on the same lobes?
Looking in the service manual & my old plate I see oil comes back into the plate from the filter where it hits a couple ports. One of them feeding the lifter cavaties on up. I'll check that out and that clean out plug that was mentioned. Also the pressure relief & o-rings.
It worked fine before this so I'm leaning towards the gerator flats being lined up (if that's relevant) or a restricted passage enroute to the lifters.
Thanks!

[danoflhrci]

After taking the plate out I found a pretty sticky relief valve with an aluminum shaving between the spring and wall. Feeble attempt to get that cup out with a little magnet didn't work. I will get it out & wet sand as seen on other threads. Of course I'll clean all passages & think I'll put the stock 90* elbow back on the engine to pan fittings. That oil cooler will go in series with the other one off the filter.
Thanks!

[Admiral Akbar]

It worked fine before this so I'm leaning towards the gerator flats being lined up (if that's relevant) or a restricted passage enroute to the lifters.

Don't make any difference.. After so many turns the rotor line up since the inter has one less bump than the outer..

Of course I'll clean all passages & think I'll put the stock 90* elbow back on the engine to pan fittings.

No clue as to what you are trying to say..

That oil cooler will go in series with the other one off the filter.

Another head scratcher..

Max

[autoworker]

After taking the plate out I found a pretty sticky relief valve with an aluminum shaving between the spring and wall. Feeble attempt to get that cup out with a little magnet didn't work. 

You may want to try a thread cutting tap started into the plunger as a puller.

[danoflhrci]

Auto worker,
Thanks! Got it out, cleaned up the bore, wet sanded the plunger. It's a smooth arrangement now.
Max,
Thanks for clearing up gerator questions. What I was saying about my 2nd oil cooler; I had it running off the engine to pan line (removed the 90* elbow/replaced with lines to a cooler). Wasn't sure if that was such a good idea so I reinstalled the short 90* elbow & will run that cooler in series with the other one off the filter.

[danoflhrci]

Lilchief,
I just read your post under (gaterman lifters bleed down) about losing pressure in your cam plate because the #1 hole stripped & you helicoiled a little shy in the hole. I just went through exactly that. I can see (without the pushrods in) the lifters being fed oil when running the starter, but after installing pushrods & starting it there's a lot of valve train clatter . Pushrods can be adjusted on the light side (14 flats on 24 tpi rods) or 20 flats. Same clatter either way. This whole gig is really wearing on me but I guess my next step is to open it up again & replace that helicoil a little deeper. Really short of ideas/solutions here?

[RevFastEddy]

Take your lifters out and crank the engine over on the starter for 15 second bursts. I bet lots of oil pumps out the lifter bores.  It will flush anything out of the passages. Then you will see lots of oil flowing. Replace your lifters and try again. I bet it takes 15 to 30 minutes to get all the air out of the lifters and oil up the pushrods to the rockers. There isnt very much going to the top end. There is almost no oil pressure by the time it gets to the rockers.

[lilchief]

My mess was self inflicted. I should've just left it alone, but...you know how that goes. I've been thru 4-5 sets of lifters, 3 sets of pushrods, I installed a new SE cam plate & oil pump, Zippers Tensioners, SE rocker supports, S&S non-roller rockers, removed the front head and had a local machinist/engine builder tear it down and spec all components, new piston oilers, the list is so long I can't even remember. The last thing I did was change out the upper tubes that the S&S Quikee pushrods came with to the shorter SE ones I had. This lowered my ticking noise considerably, but it's still there. Like I said, once I fixed the cam plate sealing issue, my lifter bleed down went away. Seems like there are at least 3 of us on this board that have the same problem. I run Andrews 26 cams & I had a very slight tick after installing them, but, to me, it has become more prominent, but who knows, maybe it was always there or maybe it's the new lifters that are mating to the cams, I dunno? Bike runs great though. It's my understanding that there won't be a ton of oil in the top end, but there should be evidence of oil getting up there.

Lil' Chief

[jambo]

My brothers oil cooler was gummed up, removed it and it pumped oil fine.