Ultima 107/113 for 100F+ Traffic Jam

[uwiik]

First of all, Happy 4th of July everyone!!

I am a die hard fan of evo engine, owned a twinkie before but kept on going back to evo, can't get rid of the sound outta my head. Problem is, as I get older and fatter touring for 400+ miles with vibrating evo powered softail can get really tiring, largely due to vibration, I cannot even see the mirror on certain RPM.

My engine spec is as folow:
- Delkron case
- Edelbrock head
- Stock jugs and pistons
- EV27
- CV carb tuned with CV performance kit
- 9.5:1 CR
- D&D 2-1
- S&S flywheel stock stroke
- DTT ignition

Because I don't have enough money and I don't ride everyday, I was planning to keep on dealing with the vibration and sore muscle on long trips, afterall my engine has been very reliable, last owner rode 70.000 miles and I added 25.000 miles with it's current specification. Last month finally my front valve blew, bent pushrod and only God knows what happened inside. The bike still running, just way less power than it used to be and sounding like a sewing machine. I haven't tore the engine down as I do not want to open a can of worms yet.

Wayyyy long before I broke my engine I was thinking about getting an S&S V111 which everyone saying is really smooth and bulletproof, but I seem to never being able to get the money together for an S&S, too many distraction from other hobbies, old American V8 and whatnot

Initially I was thinking about just fixing the engine, getting a stock heads welded and port it to reputable porter, Cr set to 9.5:1, get a stock flywheel welded and new pistons and have everything static balanced for maximum smoothness and switch to Woods W6H cam, Esentially replacing everything but the case and jugs. I haven't done the cost calculation or getting a quote yet, but I think after all new parts and mods it might turn out more expensive than getting a brand new crate 107" or 113" Ultima at $3.750 ready to go with carb and ignition.

I heard Ultima 107" or 113" are really smooth, some even said as smooth as a counter balanced Twinkie engine, but I am concerned about the 10-10.5:1 CR as I ride in a less than ideal condition, we have 95 octane fuel but during touring out of cities sometimes I got stuck with 87 octane, really bad traffic jam with 100+ ambient temp on bad days.  My main priority for the engine is maximum smoothness and being able to stand the traffic jam at 100+, I really worry about longevity/durability with 10.5:1 CR being used constantly on 100F+ traffic jam, I am not going to worry too much about neck jerking power. Can I reduce the CR by using thicker head gasket? Where can I get thicker head gasket for Ultima engine? I looked at Ultima catalogue and didn't see any variation on the gasket they offer for their engine.

I would like to hear about others opinion on my case.

Thanks in advance everyone!

[Deye76]

"I am not going to worry too much about neck jerking power"

You can bleed off some compression with a cam change. But with quality stuff, like Delkron cases in your current motor, I'd tear it down and fix it, keep it at the CR you like.

[pwmorris]

Since you don't know what kind of damage is in there, it's premature to start talking crate motors-You don't know till you do tear down.
You may have only 500 bucks or less in parts needed to get her going fresh again vs. 4k for a crate motor so tear her down, freshen er' up and since you are on a budger, keep her just as she is now.
If the flywheel or or bottom end is out of wack, then the bill goes way up so that would be the time to figure your next move.
As far as the vibration, there are plenty of twin cams that vibrate like crap out there so I would look at other possible culprits such as needing fresh engine mounts, tires, swingarm bushings, front end, etc. Look for parts loose (pipe baffle) or anything front to rear touching the frame where it shouldn't be, which vibrates right up to the the bars.
10.5 -1 isn't a big deal and you could still run 87 if needed, but don't put the cart before the horse-teardown is first.

[uwiik]

Let's do some calculation, all prices are estimation:
- a pair of stock head: have a pair lying around
- weld and port head job, new valve, guide, spring etc $1200
- new piston $300
- used flywheel from ebay or send my S&S flywheel to USA $350
- weld flywheel and balance work with the piston $400
- new cam $250
- new lifters $150
- new bearings $100
- new gasket $120
- new roller rocker $400
- new pushrods $120
- re powder coat everything $300
- assembly free DIY

Total $3.690

Almost exactly the same as buying ultima.....hmmm......what to do what to do?

By the way, what is the real advantage of having S&S flywheel? I am not from the USA and nobody does proper balance job here, so if I want to have balanced flywheel piston combo for maximum smoothness I have only two option, send my S&S to US or buy a used stock flywheel from fleabay and have it welded and balanced with new piston... Have Scott to do it perhaps....

[uwiik]

Since you don't know what kind of damage is in there, it's premature to start talking crate motors-You don't know till you do tear down.
You may have only 500 bucks or less in parts needed to get her going fresh again vs. 4k for a crate motor so tear her down, freshen er' up and since you are on a budger, keep her just as she is now.
If the flywheel or or bottom end is out of wack, then the bill goes way up so that would be the time to figure your next move.
As far as the vibration, there are plenty of twin cams that vibrate like crap out there so I would look at other possible culprits such as needing fresh engine mounts, tires, swingarm bushings, front end, etc. Look for parts loose (pipe baffle) or anything front to rear touching the frame where it shouldn't be, which vibrates right up to the the bars.
10.5 -1 isn't a big deal and you could still run 87 if needed, but don't put the cart before the horse-teardown is first.

Like I said couple years ago I initially planned to get S&S V111 but I can never get the money together with three ongoing projects of old American muscle, three kids to feed, the kids private school, and mortgage to pay, so I threw the idea outta the window.

I damaged front valve, front pushrod, that's for sure, after the obvious damage during last trip I still continued to finish the trip with broken front valve and pushrod for another few hundreds miles and beat the hell out of the engine to keep up with the others.  The valve guide got loose last year and now this problem, so the edelbrock head definitely had to go, I don't like how it looks anyway, never a big fan of anything edelbrock. The vibration is not actually that bad, I only cannot see the mirror at certain rpm, I am guesstimating 2000-3000 rpm, not sure, my speedo is not working and I don't have tach anyway. So I am sure the vibration came from the engine, nothing else. The vibration itself is not too bad actually, I never lost a bolt, my feet able to firmly sit on the floorboard, if I don't do death grip my hand doesn't get numb, my teeth doesn't rattle, it is just me to be blamed for getting older, fatter and more brittle and now wanting less vibration but couldn't afford another bike for now. I am taking this bike to my coffin, so selling this bike for a bagger is not an option.  I used to ride the bike for 1000 miles trip with smile ear to ear, but now short 400 miles trip already beat the c**p outta me.

Like I said, now my priority is getting maximum smoothness for my engine, power came as second priority, either by swapping to affordable engine that is known for smoothness such as ultima 107/113" or rebuilding my engine and get it meticulously balanced for absolute maximum smoothness with a ballpark budget of anything less than $4.000 for either one of the option. I know that I might be able to get her back to normal with $500 more or less, but I have $4.000 to spend right now on this bike to make it more enjoyable.

Any suggestion?

[ramcr913]

Well it's a tough choice, hope whatever you do works.
You said "I really worry about longevity/durability with 10.5:1 CR being used constantly on 100F+ traffic jam".

I had the same thoughts, and wound up going with the Ultima 120"- it has a CR of 9.8:1. The stroke is the same as a 113 (4.250) but the 120 has a bigger bore- 4.250 (vs 4.0), which squares up the motor.
I only have a couple hunnert miles on the engine so I cant speak to the longevity but it runs smooth and strong (so far) and seems to thrive on 92 and 93 octane fuel.
Good luck with your decision.

[stroker800]

Just change bikes...A solid mount is solid mount  PERIOD.  At 60 % balance factor its never gonna be that smooth..I dumped the softail (evo) for a roadking also evo, best thing I did...Just getting ready to put a 96" S&S motor come this winter...I have seen a few Ultima motors go south,, you can pick up their "reman" motors for bout 1800-2600..You'll want to tear it down and go thru it...I had a 97" fxr (shovel) smooth as hell,,oh  yea rubber mount..Just another point of view..
Dave

[uwiik]

that's what I did, started with 1957 XL when I just finished college had my toe nail flown of my toe because of that b@$tard, then moved to 1969 panshovel, got rid of it and got a 1994 XL, sold it for a 1997 Softail, then wanting a more comfortable ride bought 2002 ultra hated that bike the most, I'd rather drive a car than seen riding in one of that humongous thing, then bought a 2003 Road King kinda liked it feel more like a bike than an ultra, but I always miss the sound of evo when you fire it up in the morning, then went back to my current evo softail, at one point I also had duo glide and hydra glide always like pre 2000 bikes, that was few years back when I was younger where vibration was never a problem AND I WAS SINGLE!! so I can afford to change bike so many times.... I know solid mount will never be as smooth as rubber mount and nothing can change that, I was just looking for an option to get maximum smoothness from what I have without extending my house finance..... Last time I check 1995 Road King with legal paper cost US$22.000 here, brand new 2013 Road King with legal paper US$45.000, doesn't make sense. Yea I can sell my Softail for $22.000 and get a 1995 Road King without any additional cost but I won't have a badass looking softail anymore and I know I will regret it, I never love a bike more than I love my current junkyard dog softail....A brand new Road King is on my agenda strictly for long distance touring, but not before I pay off my house debt in another two years...

[dsvracer]

Back in the day when I worked on evo's daily I would always recommend a dyna 2000I ignition module set up for single fire mode.  Just simply amazing how much of the vibrations were gone after install. Even got a couple extra MPG as a bonus.

[uwiik]

By the way, back to the topic...
Is it unrealistic to wanting to run big bore air cooled vtwin engine with 100+ CID in my environment where temp could reach 100+ on bad days with traffic jam to add?

After all the comments, suggestions and PMs from the awesome members of this community, I actually leaning towards rebuilding my engine instead of getting big CID engine. Re worked the front valve and replaced front pushrod this weekend with the help of my buddy who owns an indy shop and now it's running better, not perfect, but definitely much better. However, today I have been told by a well respected member of this forum to use common sense, ANY air cooled engine cannot be used in my environment and being told to get a radiator engine instead??

Well my modified 80CID evo had run almost 100k (mostly from prev owner) before the front valve finally gave up, stop counting miles after my speedo stopped working.... The newer infamously hot running 96-103-110 CID engine and SE engine are running around the streets here, the monopolized Harley dealership here actually struggling to meet demand of the even hotter running new bikes. Ermmmm, am I really being unrealistic?

[jclark311]

IDK, you make a good point about the compression on the ultima motor, and the 87 octane gas. If only you could get that motor in 9-1 compression. Some guys on the board are running fans on there twin cam motors because of the heat.

[speed limit]

60,000 miles on my Ultima 127" 210 is the highest oil temp I have seen with it no oil cooler I use straight 50wt.

[shovelbill]

watch the video.........

http://wardspartswerks.com/

[speed limit]

Don`t confuse large cubic inch crate engines with large c.i.d. on stock castings, aftermarket crate engines are designed with more girth, more, larger fins or greater cooling ability combine that with the fact that evo`s run much cooler than twin cams I don't think you have anything to worry about