124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag

[No Cents]

 
thanks Harry

[06roadglide]

I probably will. I'm still on the fence on which brand tire to buy for the rear when I do the chain conversion. I do need a new rear tire...most of the tread has seemed to disappear for some reason   
  Yesterday I ordered a sprocket locking nut that 3 Guyz sell for a conversion. It's suppose to take the movement/flexing out...that the factory set up allows.
I don't know if a chain conversion would change anything as far as results of a dyno tune...maybe Jim can chime in on that one.
But I'll go ahead and hold off on the chain conversion, and give it to Jim with only the pipe change...that way it will be exactly the same and an "apples to apples" comparison...as he tuned it with the Zilla on it.

I think you'd really like the ME880 Radial.  It's lighter, rides smoother, larger contact patch as a result of it being more forgiving, made in Germany vs the Brazil bias tires.

I have a 160/60  R18 on a 4.25" rim and it measures 6.25" at its widest point. My belt has about a 1/4" clearance at the tire but I also dumped the belt guard when I went with a 2-1 pipe.

[06roadglide]

Here's the tire Ray.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[fidel]

Dyno  donation  what email address for paypal payment

[No Cents]

Dyno  donation  what email address for paypal payment

thanks for the offer for the donation...I was joking!
I'll pay for the tune out of pocket myself.
It will be nice to know if my Burns pipe actually is performing better than my Zilla did.
my butt could be lying   

[DBW]

 

Jim,

You asked me awhile back if you could keep the pipe to test with?
I asked you for who.. You said possible Ray's bike I said no problem, please keep and use it.
I understand the part of you are busy, but after the fact that you took the Fang muffler and rigged it to work on the Zilla, I would think having the Fang there to try would be a + for Ray the customer.  Even if the results are off the charts, since he is willing it will give everyone some comparisons with like data.
Please note I even offered to come down and help/do the labor necessary to change the pipes, as well as help pay for yours and the dyno time to run the fang which would be better at your place to keep everything consistent with the same dyno, operator and bike other than exhaust.

Since trying to get a hold of you in regards to this I have received no response from you, except that you have now all of sudden shipped my pipe back and I read the previous posts: 

My reason for asking this>>>>
First I would love to see how the pipe does on a big build other than blower, I would like to see how it compares to the Rigged Zilla as well since it helped the Zilla pick up a few more ponies.  Ray asked me in PM and told me about this. You and I have talked about this.
Again I understand the busy side and time. I would love to help and lend a hand and even help pay for some of the labor and tune if needed.
Just so people understand we as well as the general public who do builds like this look for this type of data all the time  and for me I have a vested interest in seeing how the Fang performs.  If you have a change of heart and it is something you are still willing to do I would bring the pipe back down with me.

If you're not willing to indulge this testing and inconvenience, I understand, and in that case the offer to Ray is to come on over and I will test it at my place at no cost to him. 

Thanks Jim please send me the Tracking Information for the pipe if in a Pm or text.
FD

no we didn't make a jig...this is a one off pipe. We thought about it afterwards 
Seems a lot of people are very interested in my Burns pipe...I've received many pm's on it...and they are wanting to know if I'm going to make more of them.
I don't have a Fang to compare it to...maybe Frank would be willing to send one to Jim's for a comparison...if Jim even wanted to mess with it.
If they wanted to use my bike for an experiment while Jim has it...that would be fine by me. Frank and Jim would have to get together and make that decision.

I did have the fang test pipe here  but I dropped the fang in the mail yesterday.
not interested in doing any testing (got nitrous testing for myself and three motors to build),
you have a work of art that you made with your own two hands lets concentrate on that.
you also have a zilla that worked great. no need for another pipe.

[No Cents]

 
thanks for the offer Frank.
I will be happy just seeing what my bike does with this pipe on it I made...who knows...it might be a huge flop and could possibly be a waste of your's and Jim's time involving the Fang into the mix.   
Let's just wait and see how it does first. If it does out perform the Zilla...then maybe we can get together for some testing later on.
 

[DBW]

No problem and good luck with it I hope it gives you what you are looking for. You did a very nice job on it.
Keep us posted
Thanks,
FD

thanks for the offer Frank.
I will be happy just seeing what my bike does with this pipe on it I made...who knows...it might be a huge flop and could possibly be a waste of your's and Jim's time involving the Fang into the mix.   
Let's just wait and see how it does first. If it does out perform the Zilla...then maybe we can get together for some testing later on.

[No Cents]

Thanks.
will do Frank

[strokerjlk]

Ray
I will work with you , whatever you decide .

remember this post ?
i was asked to edit it . (no big deal I didn't mind that).
the reason i was asked to edit it is what I have  a problem with. (sudden rash of complaints about me posting my price to tune and re-tune ) taking business away from vendors.
i will have no part of any of this now. and could really care less ,seeing how all this came about .

[turboprop]

Ray
I will work with you , whatever you decide .

remember this post ?
i was asked to edit it . (no big deal I didn't mind that).
the reason i was asked to edit it is what I have  a problem with. (sudden rash of complaints about me posting my price to tune and re-tune ) taking business away from vendors.
i will have no part of any of this now. and could really care less ,seeing how all this came about .

Jim,

For all you do here, the forum should be sponsoring you.

Love & Respect.
TP

[No Cents]

Ray
I will work with you , whatever you decide .

remember this post ?
i was asked to edit it . (no big deal I didn't mind that).
the reason i was asked to edit it is what I have  a problem with. (sudden rash of complaints about me posting my price to tune and re-tune ) taking business away from vendors.
i will have no part of any of this now. and could really care less ,seeing how all this came about .

Jim,

For all you do here, the forum should be sponsoring you.

Love & Respect.
TP

Jim is the man...and can for sure...tune 'em up!
and he ain't a half bad drag racer too   

[Unbalanced]

While I can see and understand the frustration especially when directly asked what u could and would do for the tuning and testing,  you answered as requested wouldn't expect you not with the many inquiries about it.  Many of us would like to see the end data, but it's sad that the innocent guy here Ray is the only one put out.   I sure hope in the background that this was just venting and a good guy isn't being penalized for forum etiquette.

Hope this works out for you Ray

[build it]

Very few have supported this forum the way stroker has, technically speaking.

[wfolarry]

Ray
I will work with you , whatever you decide .

remember this post ?
i was asked to edit it . (no big deal I didn't mind that).
the reason i was asked to edit it is what I have  a problem with. (sudden rash of complaints about me posting my price to tune and re-tune ) taking business away from vendors.
i will have no part of any of this now. and could really care less ,seeing how all this came about .

Same thing happened to me about a week ago in a different thread. I was just showing a price difference but some took it as advertising. Not a big deal. I understand there are vendors that pay to advertise and there are certain rules that go along with it. Just relay the info through Ray and let him post it.

[strokerjlk]

While I can see and understand the frustration especially when directly asked what u could and would do for the tuning and testing,  you answered as requested wouldn't expect you not with the many inquiries about it.  Many of us would like to see the end data, but it's sad that the innocent guy here Ray is the only one put out.   I sure hope in the background that this was just venting and a good guy isn't being penalized for forum etiquette.

Hope this works out for you Ray

How is ray put out ? He will get to see a apples to apples comparison. Between the zilla and the no cents/ burns/ guppy pipe That he built. It wasn't his idea to test the fang . I saw you pushing that not ray .

[Unbalanced]

Jim,

It seemed like you were not going to do any of the work from what you posted. 

i will have no part of any of this now. and could really care less ,seeing how all this came about .

If you don't test the fang so be it, would have been nice to see the results, but that's it.   Typically you have gone out of the way to test many of pipes as a direct comparison.  I was more concerned that what I quoted was that Ray was now SOL and I hated to see that for him was my only concern there.   If you are still doing the work than all is good it just didn't seem that way from the message you wrote.

 

[strokerjlk]

Don't worry about things that don't concern you .
Ray will do just fine without you as his mouth piece

[1931jamesw]

I offered to put in for the testing of the pipe but I agree that I thought it was Harry that wanted to see that mostly and Frank as well but testing requires a lot of time and patience and its not as simple as changing the pipe and doing a pull to get a completely fair, all things as equal as possible comparison. Each piece needs to be tuned to its best potential and if you want to see more than 100% throttle especially which I would if i were testing a lot of tuning work and time goes into that to give each component a fair shake and throttle progressivity in lower TP's have to be equal as well as engine temps etc., etc., etc,.  I can agree that stroker ads to this forum also but it does take a lot of time I do a fair comparison on parts. I just finished one yesterday on a throttle body change and it is a lot more tedious than some might realize and that's no BS. Other than that, I have been picked off and banned from this place before and without a question, I deserved it. That said, now that I pay to have the opportunity to garner business here, I have a new appreciation for the rules set forth to help keep the forum going for everyone and to have an opportunity to garner business and support the industry. If and when you start paying money for that previledge you start to see the other side and get frustrated at times when you feel like the services you offer and pay to offer here might be slipping right thru your fingers to someone who doesn't pay to have that priveledge and I am not here to stir up any BS and I don't want any part of any BS but I can't see how having members post things that may open doors for business of another member here who is obviously open for hire for work is right either. In my mind that just undermines the authorities here and frankly its insulting to the intelligence of the paying sponsors and behind closed doors, I've heard guys that do pay say that it makes them want to invest in their opportunities elsewhere. Lets face it, this very forum is probably full of the best guys in he business but to be honest, that's because there are a lot of guys here that have a lot of experience in this industry and you know where that leads us, this forum is full of that experience because there are so many shops here and vendors here paying and non paying. I do appreciate the place and the guys that are in charge around here do handle things pretty well all things considered. I have been in trouble several times and they usually give me the benefit of the doubt and erase my post and we move on and the forum keeps expanding and knowledge keeps being passed around. If you don't pay, you shouldn't be posting prices on parts of services. The rules say that. Even guys that do pay can't do that. If you do this to pay the bills and you don't pay a vendor fee, I'd say consider yourselves lucky because its no secret that a lot of guys make money from being here and are not required by the rules to give back. Again, I'm not trying to stir up any more BS but at least have the honor to see things objectively. If my post is out of line, admins, please remove it and I will forever hold my peace but my intentions are good. It just gets a little old with shops taking shots at one another in the public forums. Have I been guilty of it myself? Absolutely! Am I wrong for it? Absolutely! Do I deserve special treatment because I pay to play? No. Posting a typed out response removes the human element and the context of what people say sometimes and things can get misinterpreted but sometimes there's no mistaking what a guy is saying. I've been involved with both but hey, we all enjoy the same things and it seems like I get a phone call about 2 times a week asking if I heard what happened on the forums. What a drag... Beers for everyone on me at the show in Cinci this year. Hopefully we can put the BS aside and not end up having a brawl. Everybody wants to be the best. Man, let it go...

[strokerjlk]

Same thing happened to me about a week ago in a different thread. I was just showing a price difference but some took it as advertising. Not a big deal. I understand there are vendors that pay to advertise and there are certain rules that go along with it. Just relay the info through Ray and let him post it.

I could care less as well . I was not  posting prices as advertising either .
I didn't really like the donation thing myself . As it was bound to cause hard feelings.
But since it was out there , I gave my price .
Larry
Watch your back . The one that pushed the button is usually the one that swears they don't have a Problem .
I am glad I don't have to do this for a living . Competition   and back stabbing is brutal among these vendors .

[kd]

I have been following this thread religiously since inception. I would like to comment as a "fly on the wall" nobody. I don't think Jim meant to advertise anything. As a matter of fact I have communicated with him and he seems to be plenty busy without advertising. Jim (and a few other "professionals") on this site give HTT the credibility it has earned. Where would we be without them? A gossip club? I think it was a slip of the tongue (key board) in an attempt to help everyone that is following the progress of No Cent's build. Look at how many pages of info and views are related to this thread.

I also understand why the administrators had to react to a complaint, but it's not always black and white. It's too bad it couldn't have been settled more gently. Jim seems to have the voice of reason in most of his contributions and thouroughly understands the "keep it simple" theory. His stats show more than 2 1/2 contributions per day that helps someone here on this forum. I for one appreciate "all" of the excellent input by professionals like Jim. Especially when they respect each other.

I can't help but notice how everyone has puckered up since Jim's response got him spanked. That is very telling about the respect he (and others here) deserve and receive. No Cents is blowing all his pool shootin' money on this project and sharing with all of us. Jim is just one of the experts helping him (us) out. There have been threads by head porters and suppliers offering "things" for free or for  shipping cost to help individuals. What was different there?

I just feel I have to say something about how much I appreciate the way this forum and everyone involved have taken me from my hot rod pan / shovelhead background and helped me understand the twincam. I even had HTT members meet me in California last April to assist my wife and I in launching a tour on a rental RG out of San Diego. My new 120R project has revitalised my hot rod interests. Please, lets not let this stuff kill threads like this. This is high level stuff that happens here. 

[Coyote]

Let me clarify that Jim did not get "spanked" at all by this site's admins regarding the post in question. In fact, he was not even told to remove it. I simply got tired of the whining about it, explained what was going on, and nicely asked if he would change it...

I never found the post to be an issue when taken in context. But I appreciate his willingness to make the "issue" go away.   

[kd]

Let me clarify that Jim did not get "spanked" at all by this site's admins regarding the post in question. In fact, he was not even told to remove it. I simply got tired of the whining about it, explained what was going on, and nicely asked if he would change it...

My apologies Coyote. I guess it's not always what it appears to be.  I was simply trying to say, as a bystander that was enjoying this excellent thread, that I hated to see any dissention in the ranks (if that was what was occurring).  With 34,000 views and almost 1000 replies I thought it was important. Now lets test that pipe! 

[No Cents]

I'm the one that's guilty here. 
1FSTRK posted he would like to see the engine remain the same with only the pipe difference shown in a re-tune and would be willing to donate towards the cause. 
My big mouth responded with my fuel costs and whatever Jim's cost would be as a joke. Jim stated what his dyno fee is...and I never took it as advertisement...just an honest reply to my posting. Maybe others didn't see it that way...and I guess I kind of understand.
Many other members were quick to chime in and wanted to donate towards the dyno tune to be able to see the data that would come from it. It was a nice gesture from the members here!
As far as Jim goes...he is a 1st class stand up man that has a wealth of knowledge and eagerly shares it... and he is one of the best tuners in the country...and I feel bad for him that this went the way it did. Like I said...I take the full blame!
The plan is to still have Jim re-tune my bike in the next few weeks...with only a pipe change.
I figured he would post the results....good/or bad...but I wouldn't blame him now...if he doesn't post them.   

[kd]

I figured he would post the results....good/or bad...but I wouldn't blame him now...if he doesn't post them.


Will you? I would love to see it.    "enquiring minds need to know"