Strange Rattle / Knock

[Ohio HD]

About a month ago when starting the bike after it had been sitting several days, so the motor is cold, I heard a tapping start right away. I give it some throttle, it went up and down with the RPM's, then went away. So I just chucked it to a lifter had bled down. Then a few days later, same scenario, then went away. Then it started staying around longer, and as I would ride, maybe 10 minutes or so, the sound would go away finally. But before it did, I would get a rattle sound when letting off the throttle to shift, riding easy, 2,000 to 2,100 RPM shifts.

So then lest weekend I started it cold, and heard a definite knock, kinda hard too, but before I could get down to the motor level, it stopped, and was a little ticking, then went away. Had the same exact knock on the 4th this past week, it went away again. So I put the bike on the lift so I can be near the motor to hear better, I've tried to get it to do it again, the heavy knock, and it's gone. But has been replaced by a sort of rattle, that goes to a light tapping sound as the motor warms up. Doesn't go away now, just gets quieter. Even with a stethoscope and also using a screw driver, and a hose, it's really hard to detect the location of the sound. At best, I can say it seems to be coming from the rear cylinder. Not near the head really, more prominent in the middle of the cylinder or at the base, or even the case area.

I've pulled many motors apart with a wrist pin bushing loose, but they were not making noise that I ever heard like this. The motors with a loose bushing, were quite, the loud ones, the bushing was deformed and mostly gone. I've heard rods knock, and they have a hollow knock, pretty easy to distinguish. This is a strange rattle / tapping, it almost sounds like sheet metal rattling when the throttle is let off, and more of a tapping when giving some throttle. It is most prevalent around 1,800 to 2,100 RPM.

This has me stumped as I've never heard anything like it. I know it's not the compensator or anything in the primary, as I had that all apart, and even replaced the compensator while in there a few weeks ago. The only noise coming from the primary is the whirring of the chain. I know I can pull it down and find it, but would like to determine just what it is if I can.

Looks like I may not worry about getting it tuned this year now...  unless I figure it out, and it's a quick fix. My fear is that I have cracked a piston skirt, but can't imagine it getting quieter as it warms up. If that's all it is, that's a quick fix, sort of....   

I have her on the lift with fans on the motor to cool it down, and will try to listen for it again.

This is on my 107", 4-3/8 stroke, 3.937 bore.

[05FLHTC]

Piston slap?

I had a very noisy build on my RKC was most prevalent at 2400 rpms hot or cold made little difference, never did tear it apart to confirm, traded it away

[Ohio HD]

Piston slap?

I had a very noisy build on my RKC was most prevalent at 2400 rpms hot or cold made little difference, never did tear it apart to confirm, traded it away

It's possible, but I'm assuming worse, simply because it was never there before a month ago. And it was really load a couple of times, not not so much.  It's weird.

[06roadglide]

I know you say your confident it's not the comp. but I'd check it to be certain.

[rbabos]

Does sound piston related with heat changing it's sound. Rod or wrist pin bushing wouldn't be effected like this. I've seen this before in my early days with v8s. Micro crack near the wrist pin boss. As the engine heats up the crack closes stopping the noise. Over time the cold starts beat the gap larger until even warm the knock but at a reduced level. Just one possible cause in this case. Generally predictable in noise level and when it occurs. Your case the noise changes and unpredictable. Classic test back the was to pull each plug wire off until the knocking stopped to find the culprit. May or may not work with the vtwin. Might determine front or rear. I do know you need to be around the 2k mark trying this or the comp will knock like crazy at lower rpms.
Ron

[No Cents]

Does sound piston related with heat changing it's sound. Rod or wrist pin bushing wouldn't be effected like this. I've seen this before in my early days with v8s. Micro crack near the wrist pin boss. As the engine heats up the crack closes stopping the noise. Over time the cold starts beat the gap larger until even warm the knock but at a reduced level. Just one possible cause in this case. Generally predictable in noise level and when it occurs. Your case the noise changes and unpredictable. Classic test back the was to pull each plug wire off until the knocking stopped to find the culprit. May or may not work with the vtwin. Might determine front or rear.
Ron

I would highly suggest wearing a thick pair of insulated rubber gloves if your going to try to pull a plug wire off of one of these twin cams while it's running...it will light you up in a heart beat!
just sayin

[02FYRFTR]

Sounds like piston slap to me, did bike get hot once or twice during the past.  How many miles on the 3.937" bore, forged or cast pistons, what was clearance set at when built???

[crazy joe]

Hows about cutting the oil filter open and checking for metal?
Maybe draining some of the oils and checking for metal?

[rbabos]

Does sound piston related with heat changing it's sound. Rod or wrist pin bushing wouldn't be effected like this. I've seen this before in my early days with v8s. Micro crack near the wrist pin boss. As the engine heats up the crack closes stopping the noise. Over time the cold starts beat the gap larger until even warm the knock but at a reduced level. Just one possible cause in this case. Generally predictable in noise level and when it occurs. Your case the noise changes and unpredictable. Classic test back the was to pull each plug wire off until the knocking stopped to find the culprit. May or may not work with the vtwin. Might determine front or rear.
Ron

I would highly suggest wearing a thick pair of insulated rubber gloves if your going to try to pull a plug wire off of one of these twin cams while it's running...it will light you up in a heart beat!
just sayin

Never had a problem myself, but the extra caution can't hurt.
Ron

[Ohio HD]

I know you say your confident it's not the comp. but I'd check it to be certain.

I changed the compensator for a different reason, other than noise after the motor started making this noise. I know they're not related.

[Ohio HD]

Does sound piston related with heat changing it's sound. Rod or wrist pin bushing wouldn't be effected like this. I've seen this before in my early days with v8s. Micro crack near the wrist pin boss. As the engine heats up the crack closes stopping the noise. Over time the cold starts beat the gap larger until even warm the knock but at a reduced level. Just one possible cause in this case. Generally predictable in noise level and when it occurs. Your case the noise changes and unpredictable. Classic test back the was to pull each plug wire off until the knocking stopped to find the culprit. May or may not work with the vtwin. Might determine front or rear. I do know you need to be around the 2k mark trying this or the comp will knock like crazy at lower rpms.
Ron

I can give that a try Ron, it may help identify the location. I'm pretty sure that it's a broken / fractured piston too. I just got back from a couple hour ride, so the motor is well up to temperature. I can hear the rattle a little when cruising along. If I hammer it through the gears, I only hear the exhaust...   

I suspect that I broke something, I do tend to be a little rough on em....    

[Ohio HD]

Sounds like piston slap to me, did bike get hot once or twice during the past.  How many miles on the 3.937" bore, forged or cast pistons, what was clearance set at when built???

I think that it must be noise from the piston(s). The top end has about 7,000 miles, pretty hard miles.
Bike has never been hot at all, and runs considerably cooler than my stock '09 Ultra.

Forged Wiseco pistons, front clearance was 0.0023, rear, 0.0024.

I'm pretty resolved to believing there is damage to a piston, the way it changes with temperature, and the couple times I heard hammering, then it stopped right away.

[Ohio HD]

Does sound piston related with heat changing it's sound. Rod or wrist pin bushing wouldn't be effected like this. I've seen this before in my early days with v8s. Micro crack near the wrist pin boss. As the engine heats up the crack closes stopping the noise. Over time the cold starts beat the gap larger until even warm the knock but at a reduced level. Just one possible cause in this case. Generally predictable in noise level and when it occurs. Your case the noise changes and unpredictable. Classic test back the was to pull each plug wire off until the knocking stopped to find the culprit. May or may not work with the vtwin. Might determine front or rear.
Ron

I would highly suggest wearing a thick pair of insulated rubber gloves if your going to try to pull a plug wire off of one of these twin cams while it's running...it will light you up in a heart beat!
just sayin

I'm with you there Ray, I hate getting shocked. And I've been hit with one leg of a 480 circuit before. Man I heard crackling in my ears! 

I think I need a lot bigger motor, I won't be turning the wick open quite so hard then.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

We have a client that ran his 95" HO build like a wildman.
He had us build him a 124"/HPI 62/.640/our heads/custom exhaust............he DOES NOT run that 1/3 as hard as the other combo.
Scott

[Ohio HD]

We have a client that ran his 95" HO build like a wildman.
He had us build him a 124"/HPI 62/.640/our heads/custom exhaust............he DOES NOT run that 1/3 as hard as the other combo.
Scott

No doubt Scott, no doubt.   

[sfmichael]

 

bummer dude   

[Ohio HD]

I guess I expect it to blow it's top, and that's what I don't get. I can hammer it and bounce off the rev limiter, I have it set at 6,200, and it runs fine, and strong. Maybe it's just waiting for me to get far enough away from the garage....   

[No Cents]

the bigger they are...the more you want to turn the wick up on them to have fun. Seems they just get you up there quicker...with less strain on the motor. It's nice to have it there...when you want to use it   

[koko3052]

Vegas is the place to take your chances Brian.

[Ohio HD]

the bigger they are...the more you want to turn the wick up on them to have fun. Seems they just get you up there quicker...with less strain on the motor. It's nice to have it there...when you want to use it   

I just can't believe it couldn't take a whoopen like that. I've owned Evo and Shovels with 4-3/4 stroke, and cranked the heck out of then. Never had issues like this. Of course I don't know for sure what the problem is yet, but it appears to be piston related. 

[Ohio HD]

Vegas is the place to take your chances Brian.

naaah Bill, only the house wins in Vegas.   

[BUBBIE]

 

Could a crack in the cylinder liner cause this? Thin material in a 107"

signed....BUBBIE

[Ohio HD]

Could a crack in the cylinder liner cause this? Thin material in a 107"

signed....BUBBIE

Anything is possible. But I think I would be hearing pretty good with the stethoscope in the cylinder. The sound seems to be deep inside, and almost completely goes away when the motor is warm. Got a couple of things to try when I get back to the bike at the end of the work week.

[klammer76]

Ohio,

Sorry to hear about the trouble, it's frustrating.

Klammer

[les]

Are you sure it's not lifters?  Those symptoms sound the same as what I've been struggling with on my '11 RK.  I've had three sets in there.  The start off good, then after some miles I get that chatter during cold start up.  Then the noise goes away when the engine gets hot...after 5 to 10 minutes.  Also, if I get it hot, let it set for an hour, I get chatter (again) until it gets hot.

[dirty jim]

NOISE CHANGED WHEN ON LIFT, FULL BIKE LIFT, OR CHASSIS? DID UNLOADED SUSPENSION MAKE THE CHANGE IN NOISE?

[Ohio HD]

Are you sure it's not lifters?  Those symptoms sound the same as what I've been struggling with on my '11 RK.  I've had three sets in there.  The start off good, then after some miles I get that chatter during cold start up.  Then the noise goes away when the engine gets hot...after 5 to 10 minutes.  Also, if I get it hot, let it set for an hour, I get chatter (again) until it gets hot.

Les, I'm not 100% certain it's not lifter related. I've tried to localize the noise, but its elusive. I did think it was lifters, and did adjust them Tuesday might, and went deeper to 0.130". I thought it sounded better, but the next day was worse again. I plan to swap lifters to simply eliminate that possibility, I have a couple of new sets. 


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[Ohio HD]

NOISE CHANGED WHEN ON LIFT, FULL BIKE LIFT, OR CHASSIS? DID UNLOADED SUSPENSION MAKE THE CHANGE IN NOISE?

It pretty much sounds the same always. I just put it on the lift because I'm more ear level to the sound.


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[kik]

Ohio, I'm sure you already checked this but a couple of years ago I was having some similar noises on the back cylinder. I thought for sure it was either lifters or maybe wrist pins. It wound up being I had a loose baffle in the rear pipe. It would knock and bang until everything got hot and then stop. I guess the noise traveled back to the rear cylinder. Just a thought and it would be an easy fix also. Good luck

[Ohio HD]

Ohio, I'm sure you already checked this but a couple of years ago I was having some similar noises on the back cylinder. I thought for sure it was either lifters or maybe wrist pins. It wound up being I had a loose baffle in the rear pipe. It would knock and bang until everything got hot and then stop. I guess the noise traveled back to the rear cylinder. Just a thought and it would be an easy fix also. Good luck

I'm running a 2 into 1 pipe, but hey, it's free to check. I did check the exhaust system for interference with anything, cause when riding, it sounds just like a sheet metal rattle when you shift gears at low RPM. I'll check the baffle Thursday night when I get home. Thanks Kik.


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[Rags722]

Don't even want to tell you how long I chased an intermittent noise under throttle until one day in the garage I looked down and saw the chrome end cover on the starter shaking.  Center screw was tight, but turned out one of the two nuts that held the mounting bracket to the starter had fallen off. Felt like a real smacked ass, because I had passed up a few good rides cause I didn't trust taking it more than 100 miles from home.     At cruising RPM the sucker would dance like a Hula girl.

[Ohio HD]

Don't even want to tell you how long I chased an intermittent noise under throttle until one day in the garage I looked down and saw the chrome end cover on the starter shaking.  Center screw was tight, but turned out one of the two nuts that held the mounting bracket to the starter had fallen off. Felt like a real smacked ass, because I had passed up a few good rides cause I didn't trust taking it more than 100 miles from home.     At cruising RPM the sucker would dance like a Hula girl.

I will check that!

Thanks


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[BUBBIE]

IT would be nice "IF" it were the exhaust...

A copy-cat note here Inspired by others here:

I took a broom stick and Put it in the exhaust as far as it would go and found the baffle end,  inside the muffler was the culprit... Took baffle out and smacked it with a hammer and the fit was Tight again...

Very similar to what noise you are describing...........

NOT meant to get a few GOOFEY's Excited about the broom stick....

You know who they are....

signed....BUBBIE

[koko3052]

My EX must have been flying by when you grabbed that broom! Hope she crashed!

[remington007]

Sounds like carbon build up on the top of the pistons. It forms around the perimiter and makes the piston contact the head. Im seeing more of this as of the last couple of years. Even on 100% stock bikes!!!
Engine grows with heat and the knock will subside.

[Ohio HD]

Sounds like carbon build up on the top of the pistons. It forms around the perimiter and makes the piston contact the head. Im seeing more of this as of the last couple of years. Even on 100% stock bikes!!!
Engine grows with heat and the knock will subside.

Not carbon, I bore scoped it, looks pretty good, pretty clean.

[Eglider05]

I think I need a lot bigger motor, I won't be turning the wick open quite so hard then.

Wanna bet? 

Rick

[Ohio HD]

I think I need a lot bigger motor, I won't be turning the wick open quite so hard then.

Wanna bet? 

Rick

No..   

Sounded good though...   

[WI Bob]

Good thread with lots of good tips.

Hope you find the clank.

[Ohio HD]

Good thread with lots of good tips.

Hope you find the clank.

Me too Bob, when I get back home Thursday night, gonna look everything external over really well again, although I'm really sure it's coming from inside. Like I had told Les, I did crank the lifters down further then they had been, when I adjusted them Tuesday night. Could have sworn it was fixed, but then, next day, was noisy again.

[No Cents]

ya got them Wood lifters in there Brian?

[Ohio HD]

ya got them Wood lifters in there Brian?

Ha, Ha, no, but they sound look "wooden" lifters. I have a new set, well, new when I put them in, of Harley 'B' lifters. I have a couple more sets of them, and a set of Johnson High Lift high RPM units, and a set of Comp Cams 850's. I may through throw the Johnson High Lift in there, just to see what, if anything changes. The Johnson lifters look identical to 'B' lifters.

[No Cents]

I expected you to spring for those S&S lifters you posted on awhile back.
You got a stethoscope...if not...come get mine.

[Ohio HD]

I expected you to spring for those S&S lifters you posted on awhile back.
You got a stethoscope...if not...come get mine.

Thanks Ray, I do have a stethoscope, the sound is hard to pin down. No noise in the rocker area, none in the lifter base area, but sounds a lot like lifters going down the road. What has me baffled was the loud knock I got a few times at startup, and now is gone. No, the S&S lifters will go in the next build, or this one if it becomes the next build....  These lifters I've had for a while.

[Ohio HD]

OK, back home from the work week today, took a lunch break and went to see my patient. Started her up, she's been sitting since Sunday, so a cold motor. Amazed me as I really heard no noise to speak of, but just started her and let her idle. After a slight warm up of a couple minutes, I started raising the RPM's the clatter is much more prominent now, and is definitely the rear cylinder "area" for sure. I was also able to make the clatter come and go by holding the RPM's right around 2,000, or just slowly rolling past or down through the 2,000 RPM range.

I used my phone to video it, to capture the sound, since it's really made it's self known now. Letting the motor really warm up, maybe 15 minutes, the clatter is almost non existent, but slightly there. It's a much more metal sound now, so I'm thinking it's rod bushing, I've never heard piston slap sound like that.

Take a listen if you would like, let me know what you think.

http://youtu.be/qQGiXoWgISg

[No Cents]

time to take the rocker box cover off and take a peek see. I have heard that noise before...so I'll wait to see what you find. I think with the cover off...you will find it quickly.

[Ohio HD]

I was wondering if it "may" be the rocker support, and yep, easy enough to find out. Just that it goes away, and comes back almost exactly at 2,000 RPM. I guess the good thing is, you gotta take the rocker covers off no matter what...     

[Thumper Buttercup]

Been following,

Hope it's something simple.

Mark

[Ohio HD]

Been following,

Hope it's something simple.

Mark

Me too! A lot of good ridin weather yet! If it's anything top end, I can fix that pretty quick, I have heads, cylinders, and would just need some pistons quick. If it's anything lower end at all,  I'll run over to see Rebecca, and order a pirate motor, so I can ride yet this year.

[sfmichael]

"...and order a pirate motor..."

Arrrr matey...and what be that??   

[Ohio HD]

"...and order a pirate motor..."

Arrrr matey...and what be that??   

Michael, It's a 120rrrrrr     

[Durwood]

"...and order a pirate motor..."

Arrrr matey...and what be that??   

You answered your question Michael, with the Arrrrr, 120r that is.

[Ohio HD]

"...and order a pirate motor..."

Arrrr matey...and what be that??   

You answered your question Michael, with the Arrrrr, 120r that is.

Good sleuthing Durwood!

[Ohio HD]

Well fellas, I have the primary apart, just so I don't overlook anything, looks good in there to me. Pulled the rocker covers off last night too, nothing out of place. So this AM after finishing home chores, decided the next course would be pull the cam cover, just have a look. After I pulled the exhaust, I decide I may as well drain the oil. HA!

Have a look at the pics, me thinks I'm gonna find a bronze (corrected, thanks Max) brass wrist pin bushing blown up. Will now soon, but it makes sense, and the knock was similar to a Shovel I rebuilt for a guy once, would only knock at certain RPM conditions, a deeper knock, but kind of the same pattern. Sort of why I suspected a wrist pin problem.

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[Ohio HD]

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[Ohio HD]

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[Ohio HD]

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[Templer]

Have ya'll checked to make sure its not your nut sack ratteling?

[sfmichael]

no bueno...me thinks you're probably right   

[klammer76]

Ohio,

Ever since my bike was new (2002 FLHTC) I have been chasing a gold glitter that appears in the oil when I change it. It is not as much as you have but always been there. I believe one or two others have here have had a similar experience. As you know there is only so much brass in these motors. I have checked it, and also too it to a known shop to check, said all was fine, rocker arm bushings, wrist pin, cam plate. Last winter had the lower end done by dark horse, I wanted to run gear drives and it was out slightly plus I wanted piece of mind, I was concerned about the lower end thrust washer but apparently all was good. After all this I still have some gold glitter but again not as much as what it appears you have. I can't recall who else had a similar issue but I recall them giving up chasing it also and just rode it. I hope you find out what is causing your issue.

Regards,
Klammer

[Admiral Akbar]

Definitely not looking good with that much brass.. Good luck with that Brian..
Max

[02FYRFTR]

I am having the tapered end lube on the dickhead rods on the next half dozen asemblies revised.  I hope that it will ease the gold rush.  Seeing more ssues as they roll the miles on them and stress them beyohd what they were designed to do.

[Ohio HD]

OK, top end off, cam chest apart, checked run out on crank, still less than 0.001" with the cam plate off, all good there still. Rod fit on the crank pin feels fine, no detectable up and down or twist movement. With the pistons still on the rods, I'm holding the rod tight against the crank pin, and flywheel, and grip the piston over the top of it, and can feel a slight rocking motion left to right in relation to the bike. Both cylinders, but the front feels slightly worse. Next to no carbon on the pistons, no more than you would expect. I was hoping to find a smoking gun with a big red arrow pointing at it, but I've never seen any brass in the oil when it was changed before, I change it every 2,500 miles in this one, seeing it gets used hard.

The manual says the pin fit should be 0.0007" to 0.0012", and if it exceeds that, time to replace. Basically you shouldn't be able to feel any movement there at all. I cleaned up my tools, put them away, and will pull the pistons tomorrow and get a close up view of the bushings. But the fact that I can feel a rocking in them, and I have all of that brass in the oil, well, it is what it is. Oil pump looks fine, that's also why I checked the crank run out, and my oil pressure is as it always has been. Rocker arms feel good, fit of the rocker shafts into the arms is snug, I really didn't expect to see any problems with the bushings there.

The thing that has me stumped still, is even with a rocking in the pin and bushing, I just can't see it making that kind of racket. But then again, as it would warm up, it was almost silent.

Will look at them tomorrow, pull the pistons to get a better idea of the pin fit, gonna pull Old Black Betty out and ride her for a while, easy....       

Corrected the pin fit.

[Ohio HD]

Ohio,

Ever since my bike was new (2002 FLHTC) I have been chasing a gold glitter that appears in the oil when I change it. It is not as much as you have but always been there. I believe one or two others have here have had a similar experience. As you know there is only so much brass in these motors. I have checked it, and also too it to a known shop to check, said all was fine, rocker arm bushings, wrist pin, cam plate. Last winter had the lower end done by dark horse, I wanted to run gear drives and it was out slightly plus I wanted piece of mind, I was concerned about the lower end thrust washer but apparently all was good. After all this I still have some gold glitter but again not as much as what it appears you have. I can't recall who else had a similar issue but I recall them giving up chasing it also and just rode it. I hope you find out what is causing your issue.

Regards,
Klammer

I know of a few guys who have also seen a "little" glitter in their oil before. But I have never seen any from either of the Twin Cams I have now. It's definitely wear no matter how you look at it, and with all of a sudden this much brass, and noises too, well, there's a problem.   

[Ohio HD]

Definitely not looking good with that much brass.. Good luck with that Brian..
Max

Yes, I agree Max, as the oil drained into the pan, almost a few seconds afterwards, that flowing stream of brass was floating on the oil. You see in the pic I placed my finger in it, it was covered with brass. Then almost 5 minutes later, stuck that paint paddle in, still a lot.

I think I be screwed and "Potty mouth" with this motor, for now anyway.

[05FLHTC]

Have ya checked the valve guides yet?

[Ohio HD]

Have ya checked the valve guides yet?

They be cast iron, so I haven't. 

[autoworker]

I'm curious to see the rod bushings.

[Ohio HD]

I'm curious to see the rod bushings.

Me too Steve. Enjoying a few cold ones on the deck, after a nice "slow" ride on my Ultra.

Stay tuned, looking at them tomorrow morning.


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[koko3052]

If it's got tits, tires, or tracks....Brian.

[05FLHTC]

This motor have them dickhead rods?  Can them bushings be replaced?

[Ohio HD]

This motor have them dickhead rods?  Can them bushings be replaced?

Yes it does...  It would have to be custom work. I'm going to ask my friend at Bore Tech what he thinks. He makes parts for obsolete and antique motors all the time.



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[Ohio HD]

Just a little carbon on the pistons, not really that much.


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[Ohio HD]

The Red Head is pist! She's sitting and Old Black Betty got to go out tonight...

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[Admiral Akbar]

Just a little carbon on the pistons, not really that much.

How did all the oil get on the top of the piston?

Max

[Ohio HD]

Just a little carbon on the pistons, not really that much.

How did all the oil get on the top of the piston?

Max

When I pulled the heads off.

[Admiral Akbar]

Where did it come from?

There are a couple spots that hold oil in the heads but it usually don't get on the piston.. For me it gets dumped on the floor when I look at the chambers..

Max

[Ohio HD]

Only reason I can see where there was more oil than usual, I had been cranking the motor over with the rockers off, looking over the valve train. It wasn't many minutes later when I pulled the rear head off. Cold thick oil pushed in the head? 

[Ohio HD]

Here's the pics of the rod bushings. They look worn, but not chewed up or loose. With the pin in the rod, I can rock it a little bit side to side. I mean it's not super loose, but the brass had to be coming from here. When the motor was warmed up, the knocking was almost gone. The exception was when warm, some times you would here a mechanical rattle when the throttle is let off to shift, in that 2,000 to 2,500 rpm range. The video I posted with the knock, when you heard it, it was passing through the 2,000 to 2,500 RPM range, or when I was holding the throttle steady at the knock, the tach was showing about 2,300 rpm.

Like I had said, I wished I would have seen a big red arrow that pointed to the smoking gun. But I don't know what else would be making the knocking with that type of pattern. That and the fact that I now have a boat load of brass in the oil, it has to be the problem. Also I know if the bushing fit were at it's maximum of 0.0012 loose, I shouldn't be able to feel a rocking in that fit. Just feeling the play, with no oil on anything, I get there's a good 0.002" or 0.003" play in them. Front being the worse of the two.

Rear
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[Ohio HD]

Front
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[rbabos]

Thrust washers on the rods check out ok? Only two places for this much bronze to come from. I was actually expecting the small end bushing to have rotated, but seems not in this case.
Ron

[BUBBIE]

Just Asking have you checked;

How did the wrist pin fit into that piston WAS it Square with the bore or could it have not been true bored and had Side pressure against that Rod?.........

(out of alignment)?

Just thinking here...

signed....BUBBIE

[Ohio HD]

Thrust washers on the rods check out ok? Only two places for this much bronze to come from. I was actually expecting the small end bushing to have rotated, but seems not in this case.
Ron

As far as visually, what I can see of the thrust washers, they aren't chewed up or anything. There is next to no side play. Also looked at the pistons for a crack, nothing.

[Ohio HD]

Just Asking have you checked;

How did the wrist pin fit into that piston WAS it Square with the bore or could it have not been true bored and had Side pressure against that Rod?.........

(out of alignment)?

Just thinking here...

signed....BUBBIE

Pin fit in the pistons is very tight, takes slight effort to press them in by hand. As far as the bore being square, no doubt it is. The guy who does my cylinders fixtures the cylinders from the base, that way if there is any issues, the cut he makes cleans it up. He uses several different cylinder specific boring bars, these cylinders were cut on his Van Norman, which is his best.

[choseneasy]

Rocker arm bushings look okay?

[Ohio HD]

Rocker arm bushings look okay?

Yes, they look fine, and have a tight fit to the shaft. I'm think like Ron, to make that much brass, there has to be something that takes a beating, the crank pin thrust washers or the wrist pin bushing. I'm going to measure everything here shortly, see what I find that way.

[choseneasy]

Yeah, I agree, but I would have thought it would be an obvious failure with that much glitter. I guess a little goes a long ways.... Tough break, but not so bad when you can fix it yourself.

[BUBBIE]

 

I know you are going to measure everything BUT is there a chance of piston Slap? Making the noise?

I thought there was supposed to be Some play in the crank to case... I took mine into a shop equipped to measure and fit proper my new crank into my 2000 TC motor when I put it together.

Straws here....

signed....BUBBIE

[Ohio HD]

So far, all I know is that I have a lot of brass in the motor oil, and a knock / rattle in the motor at specific RPM's, right around 2,000 to 2,300. I would not have pulled the motor apart, except when I found the brass in the oil, figured that I would see the problem, not so much. Below is what I've checked, and measured, aside from general inspection of the entire motor. The only thing that was measured that is out of the factory limits is the rod to flywheels side play. And that's only 0.004 out, and not enough I don't think to cause a knock. What I measured below, is in parentheses.

I've never seen brass in the oil, the knock started about a month ago, but wasn't as loud as now, and went totally away when warm. Now it's louder, and when warm, is much less noise, but is slightly there.

So I'm baffled.


Rod side play between flywheels 0.005 to 0.015 (0.019)
No noticeable up and down play in rods, no twist detected.

Front wrist pin bushing to pin 0.0007 to 0.0012 (0.0012)
Rear wrist pin bushing to pin 0.0007 to 0.0012 (0.0013)

Front int rocker end clearance 0.003 to 0.013 (0.008)
Front ex rocker end clearance 0.003 to 0.013 (0.007)

Rear int rocker end clearance 0.003 to 0.013 (0.009)
Rear ex rocker end clearance 0.003 to 0.013 (0.011)

Front piston to cylinder fit (0.0028) within 0.0003 in round

Rear piston to cylinder fit (0.0026) within 0.0004 in round

All rocker arms fit the rocker shafts tight, no play (not measured)

No broken valve springs

No cracked valve guides

Valves fit in guides is snug (not measured)

Seat and valve face wear concentric

Valve seats tight in heads

No piston damage

Lifters fit in bores snug (not measured)

Lifter rollers, no excessive play

Drained crank case, found brass there, less, but it's less oil

No marking in rocker covers from interference

Rocker supports not damaged

No marks on push rods from interference

Crank run out less then 0.001

Oil pump bushing not worn, or damaged

Cut open oil filter, found no visible traces of brass on either side of the filter media

[rbabos]

Rod side play is pretty substantial. Might not have started that way and maybe worn to that state. Any record of what it was new? Don't know how much and what kind of noise it would cause but if the clearance has grown a lot this could explain the bronze. Generally small flakes or slivers would accompany the dust with extreme were, which you haven't found. Don't think the wrist pin clearances mentioned would cause that much racket.
Ron

[Ohio HD]

Rod side play is pretty substantial. Might not have started that way and maybe worn to that state. Any record of what it was new? Don't know how much and what kind of noise it would cause but if the clearance has grown a lot this could explain the bronze. Generally small flakes or slivers would accompany the dust with extreme were, which you haven't found. Don't think the wrist pin clearances mentioned would cause that much racket.
Ron

Ron,
I received the bike when it had about 23,000 miles, now has about 40,000. I'm the second owner, and know the original owner, lower end is factory. When I did the 107 upgrade, about 33,000 miles, I didn't check the side play for the rods, wish I would have now. Agree, it's possible that the side play is causing a knock, but I'm not convinced I guess. However, I have nothing else. I agree, the wrist pin measurements aren't really out of line. My friend Bill brought his dial bore gauge set over, and torque plates for the cylinders, so all the measurements are as accurate as can be done.

Guess I'm gonna pull the trigger on a complete motor, and do a total rebuild on this one over the winter. I'm just aggravated because I've never had a noise, or a problem that I couldn't locate. The brass however, tells a tale, it has to be the thrust washers, it's the only measurement that's out of spec.

I have a lighted magnified scope I borrowed to try and learn as much as I can about the brass dust in the oil. Just too tired tonight.

[Ohio HD]

I know you are going to measure everything BUT is there a chance of piston Slap? Making the noise?

I thought there was supposed to be Some play in the crank to case... I took mine into a shop equipped to measure and fit proper my new crank into my 2000 TC motor when I put it together.

Straws here....

signed....BUBBIE

Not piston slap, the cylinder bore measures good, and is round within 0.0004 and 0.0003.

There should be 0.003 to 0.010 crankshaft end play to the case. I haven't setup an indicator to measure that, but I felt nothing when trying to move it back and forth. However, that's not measuring.

[rbabos]

I know you are going to measure everything BUT is there a chance of piston Slap? Making the noise?

I thought there was supposed to be Some play in the crank to case... I took mine into a shop equipped to measure and fit proper my new crank into my 2000 TC motor when I put it together.

Straws here....

signed....BUBBIE

Not piston slap, the cylinder bore measures good, and is round within 0.0004 and 0.0003.

There should be 0.003 to 0.010 crankshaft end play to the case. I haven't setup an indicator to measure that, but I felt nothing when trying to move it back and forth. However, that's not measuring.

Not finding a cause can drive one around the bend. Been there several times on different engines. In this case the gold metal flake oil being a recent event should be the primary clue. On the end play thing. This is a direct relation to rod centering and rod centering to cyl case bore. It would need to be extreme to jam the rod thrust washer, but at this stage anything is possible. Seems you did all the normal checks and did it right with carefull measurments.
Ron

[02FYRFTR]

I see and understand that you have measured the cylinder bores.  What are your piston measurements, have you colapsed a skirt?

[Ohio HD]

I see and understand that you have measured the cylinder bores.  What are your piston measurements, have you colapsed a skirt?

No, pistons are fine, the dimensions I gave, are the clearances we measured using the same torque plates that were used to bore them. These are forged pistons, so the clearance is just where they should be.

Front piston to cylinder fit (0.0028) within 0.0003 in round

Rear piston to cylinder fit (0.0026) within 0.0004 in round

[joe_lyons]

Does your camplate have the bushing or parent material at the pinion shaft?  I have seen a couple of the bushings crap out.

[FXDBI]

My 2006 service manual says max. side play for the rods is.020.  How much out of round are the wrist pins and which direction are they ovalated in wider to the top and bottom I would suspect. Being at or near max. service limit is it causing a strain on the wrist pin and wearing the bushing oval? Giving you your glitter has it slowly wears  oval?  I think your crank needs service and you caught it long before it did a catastrophic failure. Much cheaper to service now.  Bob

[Ohio HD]

Does your camplate have the bushing or parent material at the pinion shaft?  I have seen a couple of the bushings crap out.

Joe, mine has the parent material where the cams run. The only brass is at the oil pump.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ohio HD]

My 2006 service manual says max. side play for the rods is.020.  How much out of round are the wrist pins and which direction are they ovalated in wider to the top and bottom I would suspect. Being at or near max. service limit is it causing a strain on the wrist pin and wearing the bushing oval? Giving you your glitter has it slowly wears  oval?  I think your crank needs service and you caught it long before it did a catastrophic failure. Much cheaper to service now.  Bob

My '08 Manual calls for a maximum of 0.015, so they must have tightened that up. I'm starting to agree, that what I heard, and then later saw in the form of brass in the oil, was catching a big bang before it happened. And as I stated before, I do run this motor hard, that's why I need more torque...  maybe will twist the throttle less.

I still just struggle with the end play being at 0.020, and it's causing an intermittent knock, temperature related. But like have also said, I couldn't pin  the source down, and it always seemed to me it was from deep in the motor. So it has to be the culprit.

[02FYRFTR]

When you pull the flywheels apart you or whoever does it wil find the heat treat broken down and the ID of the rod shot.  About ten to fifteen percent of the newere 07 and above assemblies have defective rods when they are torn down.  The defecive is next to impossible to detect without tear down and visual inspect.

[FXDBI]

I suspect you have a good ear for machinery sounds and notice the changes. Pushing a engine thru its paces is sweet music to some,
and just a speed rush for others. You can always hear when the music changes, this usually is the result of something " Starting" to
cause problems. The better the ear the sooner you hear,figuring it out is another thing and how long to failure is another. Sure it will
still run but the longer it runs the bigger the bill to fix.  Good luck with it all...Bob

[autoworker]

Have you inspected the oil jets for any blockage?

[Ohio HD]

Have you inspected the oil jets for any blockage?

I have not Steve, but will look at them just to make sure. I doubt they're blocked, as the cylinders and pistons are in great shape, but will still check them out.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ohio HD]

When you pull the flywheels apart you or whoever does it wil find the heat treat broken down and the ID of the rod shot.  About ten to fifteen percent of the newere 07 and above assemblies have defective rods when they are torn down.  The defecive is next to impossible to detect without tear down and visual inspect.

That is good information, and makes believing the crank as a cause at this point, a little easier to accept. Not sure just when this crank will be torn down yet. As I have plans to replace the motor, it's summer time, gonna ride.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Durwood]

When you pull the flywheels apart you or whoever does it wil find the heat treat broken down and the ID of the rod shot.  About ten to fifteen percent of the newere 07 and above assemblies have defective rods when they are torn down.  The defecive is next to impossible to detect without tear down and visual inspect.

That is good information, and makes believing the crank as a cause at this point, a little easier to accept. Not sure just when this crank will be torn down yet. As I have plans to replace the motor, it's summer time, gonna ride.

Replacing with a 117?

[Ohio HD]

When you pull the flywheels apart you or whoever does it wil find the heat treat broken down and the ID of the rod shot.  About ten to fifteen percent of the newere 07 and above assemblies have defective rods when they are torn down.  The defecive is next to impossible to detect without tear down and visual inspect.

That is good information, and makes believing the crank as a cause at this point, a little easier to accept. Not sure just when this crank will be torn down yet. As I have plans to replace the motor, it's summer time, gonna ride.

Replacing with a 117?

[rbabos]

Jets blocker or not would not effect much. In effect their whole purpose is to add extra oil for cooling due to extra heat of epa tunes. Plenty there for lubing from the migration off of the rods. A seriously worn pinion bushing will reduce some of this oil to the rods and effect thrust washer lube but the wear would need to be extreme. Like said likely won't see the problem unless crank is torn down. Sounds like you've ruled out all other possibles.
Ron

[Ohio HD]

So I stopped over at Rays house tonight to see his 124 motor porn...     looking good too!   When I was leaving he said, here, take this garbage bag, it has some gently used HD parts in it, but don't open it until tomorrow! 

I can't wait till tomorrow!   

[attach=0]

[sfmichael]

You lucky bastard   

Good on you both   

Nice to have friends   

[WI Bob]

So I stopped over at Rays house tonight to see his 124 motor porn...     looking good too!   When I was leaving he said, here, take this garbage bag, it has some gently used HD parts in it, but don't open it until tomorrow! 

I can't wait till tomorrow!   

[attach=0]

Kinda looks like R2-D2 is in there with a woody....or steely....

[Rags722]

I'm guessing with that garbage bag in the back of the truck, you don't stop at the local Steak and Ale for a nice long dinner, huh?  You are one lucky guy!

[Durwood]

Brian, that looks like 117" of wood

[05FLHTC]

Ok Brian it's time to pull the bag off & show us the goods 

[Ohio HD]

OK, OK, Here's what I brought home from Ray's house. Ray took care of me, sold me his 117, a very fine motor with the best of everything in it. He even let me use his shipping crate base to get her home.

I probably won't get her in and up and running a for a few weeks, I only have weekends to work on things. Today will be running around to buy needed gaskets and supplies. I need to to pull the 107 the rest of the way out, drop the oil pan and flush out any remnants of brass, as I don't want to chance running any through the 117. I need to wire the bike for ACR's too. Ordered a Boarzilla, it'll be a couple of weeks before D&D has it done and shipped anyway.

Ray sold me a really nice motor, but he also has a really nice, bigger motor almost ready.
And I can't wait to see him get that one done. 

[attach=0]

[strokerjlk]

i guess you did let the cat out of the bag...

you are a lucky man .
that is one sweet motor


117" Darkhorse...take 2...no radio this time

[Ohio HD]

i guess you did let the cat out of the bag...

you are a lucky man .
that is one sweet motor

Yes it is. 
They say timing is everything. I needed a motor, Ray just happened to have a nice one he was willing to part with.

[05FLHTC]

That should get the job done     NICE very NICE 

[smokein]

Nice grab for sure

That D&D sounds so good, it almost makes me question my exhaust choice for my build hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..

[sfmichael]

Happy for you Bri...and a little bit jealous too...   

Okay, a lot bit jealous   

[Deye76]

Good score Brian, Ray pretty nice guy to sell that motor. Glad for both of you.

[BUBBIE]

 

Does it come with a never ending warranty?

signed....BUBBIE

[Ohio HD]

Does it come with a never ending warranty?

signed....BUBBIE

Seeing how I'm the administrator of the warranty, yes it does!

[No Cents]

i guess you did let the cat out of the bag...

you are a lucky man .
that is one sweet motor


I like the video better that comes up after the one you posted Jim. It has a little Kidd Rock playing in the back ground.
Enjoy that motor Brian...she's a runner! 

[Ohio HD]

Enjoy that motor Brian...she's a runner! 

I know I'll enjoy the motor, will fit the bill quite nicely. I haven't done much yet, changed out my chrome hardware for the rocker and timing cover, just little things. Spent most of this weekend doing other things I needed to do. Week after next I'm taking a week in town from travel, and will get things going then. Should have the exhaust then too.

[WI Bob]

Excellent cure for sure.

[Ohio HD]

Finally was able to get some time to work on my wounded girl. Yesterday was spent cleaning the grungy parts of the frame hard to get to with the engine and primary in place. I also pulled the tear wheel so I could remove the oil pan to clean it out.

Anyone who thinks they can effectively flush out the oil pan while still on the bike, after a motor explosion, forget about it. The pan it's self is like most cast aluminum, rough to the touch. The pan actually looked clean, and to the touch, felt nothing alarming. But flushing  it with brake clean, wow did that release the grunge. The plastic oil baffle on the tank was a different story. Because the plastic is smooth, you could feel the grit, but really not see it.

My advice to anyone who has a bearing, bushing, or casting explode or become extremely worn, pull the pan and clean things well.

[VDeuce]

Yep, after the lifter went, I cleaned the oil pan thoroughly with break parts cleaner.

Since I had the front cylinder off, I also removed the case drain plug and poured kerosene into the crank case to flush it as best I could.

Good luck!

[Ohio HD]

Got a call from Steve at AMS this afternoon, he said D&D finished my Boarzilla, and it was sitting in front of him ready to ship to me, I should have it by the end of the week. Kinda funny, Ray is taking next week off to work on his 124 for his FLHX. I'm taking a week off next week to finish switch my 107 for his 117....   I'm ready....   

If you need anything Ray, just holler! 

[06roadglide]

Got a call from Steve at AMS this afternoon, he said D&D finished my Boarzilla, and it was sitting in front of him ready to ship to me, I should have it by the end of the week. Kinda funny, Ray is taking next week off to work on his 124 for his FLHX. I'm taking a week off next week to finish switch my 107 for his 117....   I'm ready....   

If you need anything Ray, just holler!

I may have missed it somewhere but did you have something special made?

[Ohio HD]

Got a call from Steve at AMS this afternoon, he said D&D finished my Boarzilla, and it was sitting in front of him ready to ship to me, I should have it by the end of the week. Kinda funny, Ray is taking next week off to work on his 124 for his FLHX. I'm taking a week off next week to finish switch my 107 for his 117....   I'm ready....   

If you need anything Ray, just holler!

I may have missed it somewhere but did you have something special made?

No, nothing special. D&D doesn't keep all systems made, some are made per order. My system fits only 2007 & 2008 touring.

[No Cents]

 
thanks for the offer Brian.
I'm just waiting for Larry to get done with the heads...so I can assemble it with clay and check my clearances...and now I'm waiting on a CompensaVer to show up too. I had to fix that issue...I couldn't let that problem keep growing.
But...it's ready to go together when I get those.
I always have Sturgis week scheduled for vacation...I do it every year. I love riding out there. Maybe I will get lucky and see my parts by then and I can use that week to get it fired up and do some heat cycles. I'm going to let Jim seat the rings on his dyno and tune it.

[Ohio HD]

Yesterday I dropped the 117 in the SG. Worked on getting things hooked up yesterday and today. Had to make a few runs for parts today, but have it mostly together.

Tomorrow I need to wire up the ACR harness to the ECM and fuse block. Then need to put all the body work on, drop the MAP into the ECM, then start. I left the exhaust heat shields off and the right floor board in the event I need to adjust the exhaust any. The Boarzilla fits a lot tighter to the bike than the Fatcat did.
[attach=0]

[attach=1]

[No Cents]

 
looking good! 

[Ohio HD]

She's gettin there Ray, should start tomorrow.

[sfmichael]

    

[Durwood]

She's gettin there Ray, should start tomorrow.

Good deal Brian, have you got a generous supply of rear tires?

[Ohio HD]

She's gettin there Ray, should start tomorrow.

Good deal Brian, have you got a generous supply of rear tires?

   I ordered four, figured that would get me through the season.   

[Ohio HD]

OK, well got up this AM to several conference calls. So was not able to really do anything to the bike till around 3:00 pm. I've been taking my time anyway, cleaning things really well that I won't be able to get to later easily. I wired the ECM and fuse block for the ACR's. I even cleaned up the battery box area, wiped all the cable looms down, etc.

So I dropped the MAP in a few minutes ago, she fired right off, was kind of strange, as it acted like an ACR was not open, but started anyway. After running a bit, I shut her off, started her again, cranked over just fine that time, and every time since, so maybe an ACR was sticky? 

She sounds good, letting her cool a little so I can finish with the exhaust heat shields, and floor board, seat, etc.

Come on Ray, you're soon to have yours going again. Thanks again for selling the motor, had I ordered a 120rrrr, I would just now maybe be getting it, and then after installation would have to get it tuned.

I think someone is missing the boat here, by not selling a motor, with a couple of exhaust and AC options, then a MAP to load in the bike. Plug and play, just like this was.


http://youtu.be/AMZTRgsqmF8

[autoworker]

I think someone is missing the boat here, by not selling a motor, with a couple of exhaust and AC options, then a MAP to load in the bike. Plug and play, just like this was.


http://youtu.be/AMZTRgsqmF8

You did good to score on that combo.

I hope Ray's new build turns out to be at least everything he has been expecting.He deserves some good Karma.

[sfmichael]

"You did good to score on that combo.

I hope Ray's new build turns out to be at least everything he has been expecting. He deserves some good Karma."


         

[No Cents]

 
hummm...that video sounds familiar. Like I've heard that somewhere before. 
Brian...feel it out good before twisting on it hard...it will surprise you! 

[05FLHTC]

Sweet music sounds awesome ENJOY 

[Ohio HD]

I think someone is missing the boat here, by not selling a motor, with a couple of exhaust and AC options, then a MAP to load in the bike. Plug and play, just like this was.


http://youtu.be/AMZTRgsqmF8

You did good to score on that combo.

I hope Ray's new build turns out to be at least everything he has been expecting.He deserves some good Karma.

I agree Steve, and am sure Ray's 124 will run great! Just as long as it doesn't outrun the 117....     

[Ohio HD]

hummm...that video sounds familiar. Like I've heard that somewhere before. 
Brian...feel it out good before twisting on it hard...it will surprise you! 

Runs really good, nice and strong. I can pretty confidently say that this is the most powerful bike I've owned, taking second place was my '87 Softail Custom, 98 inch.

I have a small exhaust leak at the rear head, and will fix that tomorrow. I also need to blue loctite the air breather backing plate tomorrow too.

[No Cents]

try to slow roll it out in 1st gear and pull the clutch in and rev it to say 3500 rpm and let the clutch out?
You'll need those new 4 tires by fall if you do 

[Rags722]

I watched and listened to the video of the first start up.  Couple of comments.  First of all, I got light headed as the blood rushed from my brain.  Then I got excited if ya know what I mean.  I suspect in 4 hours I'll be headed to the ER if I keep watching and listening to the video.  Damn man, that thing sounds GREAT.  Nice and crisp.  Have fun with it.  Buy a bumper sticker that says "MOTORCYCLES - take it out and play with it"

[Ohio HD]

I watched and listened to the video of the first start up.  Couple of comments.  First of all, I got light headed as the blood rushed from my brain.  Then I got excited if ya know what I mean.  I suspect in 4 hours I'll be headed to the ER if I keep watching and listening to the video.  Damn man, that thing sounds GREAT.  Nice and crisp.  Have fun with it.  Buy a bumper sticker that says "MOTORCYCLES - take it out and play with it"

Ha, Ha, easy, easy ....   

It is a good sounding motor, but Ray gets the credit for that. I just get the credit for buying it. 

[Ohio HD]

try to slow roll it out in 1st gear and pull the clutch in and rev it to say 3500 rpm and let the clutch out?
You'll need those new 4 tires by fall if you do 

I did!   

It burns the tire further than my 107 did, that's for sure. It most likely hooks up better with me on it...  you gotta remember, I have maybe 10, maybe 15 pounds on you....   

[Ohio HD]

"You did good to score on that combo.

I hope Ray's new build turns out to be at least everything he has been expecting. He deserves some good Karma."


         

I suspect that it will be a runner!     

[No Cents]

 
10-15 pds extra...then try it @ 4K...just make damn sure you have it pointed in the right direction. That's were it likes to show it's other face!  4K and up it's a handful. Bounce it off that rev limiter a few times and you'll be having some serious fun then!
I thought I would let you figure that one out on your own...but if you do...hang on tight...it will take you for a ride that will keep you smiling for days   

[No Cents]

Brian...I tried to send a pic of the badges you wanted thru a pm...I don't know if it went.
So...here they are. I just shot the 1st coat of the clear coat on them about an hour ago.
Ray

[attach=0]

Of course...no one in their right mind is going to believe it's stock after hearing it run   

[Ohio HD]

Brian...I tried to send a pic of the badges you wanted thru a pm...I don't know if it went.
So...here they are. I just shot the 1st coat of the clear coat on them about an hour ago.
Ray

Of course...no one in their right mind is going to believe it's stock after hearing it run   

  I bet you're right ....  but I'll have fun wit it.   

They look great Ray, I appreciate the time your spending on them.

I needed to get gas tonight, the tank was full when I pulled the bike apart, it always seems to be full wen I need to take it off.....   decision, decisions, I went with the 93. Seems it uses a little more fuel than my 107 did... 

[attach=0]

[kik]

Brian...I tried to send a pic of the badges you wanted thru a pm...I don't know if it went.
So...here they are. I just shot the 1st coat of the clear coat on them about an hour ago.
Ray

[attach=0]

Of course...no one in their right mind is going to believe it's stock after hearing it run   

  I bet you're right ....  but I'll have fun wit it.   

They look great Ray, I appreciate the time your spending on them.

I needed to get gas tonight, the tank was full when I pulled the bike apart, it always seems to be full wen I need to take it off.....   decision, decisions, I went with the 93. Seems it uses a little more fuel than my 107 did... 

[attach=0]  

WOW!!!... damn cheap gas. Our 87 octane just went from 3.999 to 3.699 over the last 3 days. Premium is still well over 4.00 per gallon.

[FSG]

Converting our Litres and Dollars to US, in Brissie we're paying around US$6.20 for a US Gallon   

[Ohio HD]

Brian...I tried to send a pic of the badges you wanted thru a pm...I don't know if it went.
So...here they are. I just shot the 1st coat of the clear coat on them about an hour ago.
Ray

[attach=0]

Of course...no one in their right mind is going to believe it's stock after hearing it run   

  I bet you're right ....  but I'll have fun wit it.   

They look great Ray, I appreciate the time your spending on them.

I needed to get gas tonight, the tank was full when I pulled the bike apart, it always seems to be full wen I need to take it off.....   decision, decisions, I went with the 93. Seems it uses a little more fuel than my 107 did... 

[attach=0]  

WOW!!!... damn cheap gas. Our 87 octane just went from 3.999 to 3.699 over the last 3 days. Premium is still well over 4.00 per gallon.

I see a lot of differences in gas prices, as I travel a lot for work, some states have a higher tax rate on the fuel, and some it just costs more. It's a sad day when we get excited to see "only" $3.699 a gallon isn't it? 

[Ohio HD]

Converting our Litres and Dollars to US, in Brissie we're paying around US$6.20 for a US Gallon   

dang!!   

[HogBag]

Ohio
Its all good downunder as where paying half the price there paying in europe.   

[rbabos]

5.50 US gal here on average for 91 octane.
Ron

[ViennaHog]

about $8 per US gallon over here for premium

[kik]

I can understand Fuel being different prices in different areas and countries, but I would assume it also has something to do with the median income also. Like I live in IL. The median income for 2011 was around $55,000 a year and looking at around $4.30 per U.S. gallon back then. How does AU, EU, Stanz's or CAN compare??

[FXDBI]

Median family income is 89,000 and reg. gas works out to 4.28 a US gallon here, Edmonton, Alta Canada. Its one of the cheapest places in the country for fuel, but its made right here and out of the ground right here. Still way over priced.  Bob

[Deye76]

Don't know what median income is in East Tn., last time I filled up the car paid $2.969 for reg. Filled the bike at the Marathon Friday, by my house $3.329 for prem.   

[ViennaHog]

In Germany and Austria as an example taxes make up to 60% of the pump price. Gas prices are political prices over here.

[kik]

In Germany and Austria as an example taxes make up to 60% of the pump price. Gas prices are political prices over here.

Well between Federal, state and Municipal taxes, I believe we're right about at 50% also.

[FSG]

OK so back to the brass in the oil motor, what happened to it?

[Ohio HD]

Left side flywheel thrust washer worn down.

[FSG]

 

[rageglide]

Does the thrust washer wear because of lack of clearance?  ie, too tight combo of parts?  On my 103" it feels like a mile of slop if I push/pull the crank with the primary removed.  Is the assembly really that off centered?

[Ohio HD]

This one wore I'm assuming due to the rear left side big end of the rod was elongated. That had to be where the knock was coming from as well. AT least a combination of that and the washer was wearing thinner. 

[rbabos]

Does the thrust washer wear because of lack of clearance?  ie, too tight combo of parts?  On my 103" it feels like a mile of slop if I push/pull the crank with the primary removed.  Is the assembly really that off centered?

.006 sounds like slop city on these things. I remember feeling it also and checking with an indicator. Golden rule in end play is crank to be half of what the tightest play would be in the rods end play. Too tight or lack of lube takes out the thrust washers.
Ron

[koko3052]

So what's the plan Brian?

Damn shame these don't last a little longer.... has anybody ever figured out cost/mile? 

[Ohio HD]

So what's the plan Brian?

Damn shame these don't last a little longer.... has anybody ever figured out cost/mile? 

This was the old 107 motor in my Street Glide. It's already been replaced with a 117 inch I bought from Ray.

[koko3052]

OHHH. sorry, I thot it was the 117

Still.... the same goes... should last longer no matter how they are run.

[Ohio HD]

OHHH. sorry, I thot it was the 117

Still.... the same goes... should last longer no matter how they are run.

No worries Bill, I also have the Ultra spewing brass in a new post....   

I may have mentioned once that I ride pretty hard....   

[rbabos]

OHHH. sorry, I thot it was the 117

Still.... the same goes... should last longer no matter how they are run.

No worries Bill, I also have the Ultra spewing brass in a new post....   

I may have mentioned once that I ride pretty hard....   

That should not have any impact on the thrust washers unless something has shifted. More so the wrist pin bushings, but still, seems too soon. By chance , are you running Kendall oil?
Ron

[Ohio HD]

OHHH. sorry, I thot it was the 117

Still.... the same goes... should last longer no matter how they are run.

No worries Bill, I also have the Ultra spewing brass in a new post....   

I may have mentioned once that I ride pretty hard....   

That should not have any impact on the thrust washers unless something has shifted. More so the wrist pin bushings, but still, seems too soon. By chance , are you running Kendall oil?
Ron

No, Mobile 1 20w50 V-twin at that time, when a 107 motor.

I run Brad Penn in it now, with the 117 motor.

[rageglide]

Does the thrust washer wear because of lack of clearance?  ie, too tight combo of parts?  On my 103" it feels like a mile of slop if I push/pull the crank with the primary removed.  Is the assembly really that off centered?

.006 sounds like slop city on these things. I remember feeling it also and checking with an indicator. Golden rule in end play is crank to be half of what the tightest play would be in the rods end play. Too tight or lack of lube takes out the thrust washers.
Ron

Thanks Ron.  I'll bolt the comp back on and toss an indicator on the shaft and check end play.  Right now it's about 1/4" Which I presume is NOT abnormal when the crank doesn't have the comp sprocket installed.   My scoot is still sitting half naked waiting for me to decide what I ant to do... 124, 113... Work done local or through the HTT community.    But hey, I got my compensaver yesterday lol...

[rbabos]

Does the thrust washer wear because of lack of clearance?  ie, too tight combo of parts?  On my 103" it feels like a mile of slop if I push/pull the crank with the primary removed.  Is the assembly really that off centered?

.006 sounds like slop city on these things. I remember feeling it also and checking with an indicator. Golden rule in end play is crank to be half of what the tightest play would be in the rods end play. Too tight or lack of lube takes out the thrust washers.
Ron

Thanks Ron.  I'll bolt the comp back on and toss an indicator on the shaft and check end play.  Right now it's about 1/4" Which I presume is NOT abnormal when the crank doesn't have the comp sprocket installed.   My scoot is still sitting half naked waiting for me to decide what I ant to do... 124, 113... Work done local or through the HTT community.    But hey, I got my compensaver yesterday lol...

Yes, comp needs to be on or the crank floats a lot from the spacer moving. Compensaver
Ron