Hard Start Cold

[spanners]

Got an Evo that is very hard to start cold and sometimes almost flattens battery.

Its fitted with Screaming Eagle pipes and ignition and S&S Super also fitted.

Doesn't seem to help choke on full/half or a couple of throtle twists first. tried with and without all these combos. Starts fine if engine even slightly warm. runs fine when going and mixtrure and timing good. Cant seem to find the right combo for easy start like the old shovel e.g twist throttle twice pull choke and bingo.

About to fit new spark plugs and wondering if anyone has had experience and/or used different heat range spark plugs???

[stroker800]

Never had a problem with my evo,,its starts 1st-2nd revolution...I have a dyna 2000 ignition , maybe I have it a bit retarded on timing........if anyone has a better clue ,,,,,I'm atta lose.
Dave

[spanners]

BTW - It often hints of firing when you release the starter button and then next hit away it goes.

[dave_9113]

Needs a fresh battery.  Check intake leak. 

[spanners]

Needs a fresh battery.  Check intake leak. 

No vacuum loss and Battery has got plenty of crank and crank time and passes load test with flying colours. It cranks forever. any reason you say needs a fresh one?

Stranger things have happened so I look forward to your thoughts.

[dave_9113]

Just a process of elimination.  Didn't know about the condition of your battery. 

OK, next stuff. What is year bike and is engine stock?  You don't have a monster engine with compression release, do you?

1) Your wires and grounds are tight? check at handle bar
2)  Jets you running on the SS?
3)  accelerator pump working?
4)  VOES?  if so, hooked up good.
5)  what spark plugs you running?
6) You've done a vacuun leak check right?
7)  Tried by-passing straight from battery to starter when cold yet?

More stuff to eliminate.  Good luck.

dave


   

[spanners]

Just a process of elimination.  Didn't know about the condition of your battery. 

OK, next stuff. What is year bike and is engine stock?  You don't have a monster engine with compression release, do you?

1) Your wires and grounds are tight? check at handle bar
2)  Jets you running on the SS?
3)  accelerator pump working?
4)  VOES?  if so, hooked up good.
5)  what spark plugs you running?
6) You've done a vacuun leak check right?
7)  Tried by-passing straight from battery to starter when cold yet?

More stuff to eliminate.  Good luck.

dave


   

Thanks Dave, your a champ,  can you give me a bit more on 1 & 4 (1996 Heritage Softail with Sream Eagle ignition/pipes and S&S carb. If it's got a cam it's only mild & probelm appeared miraculously a week ago). Mostly aftermarket HD guys in my area here Down Under in Oz so as a mech myself thought I'd go over any obvious stuff and basics so your help is appreciated.

1) Ground wire fine at frame but is there a  ground on bars as they mount in rubber at risers anyway??? kill switch works fine.Could be related as last week had swirch block apart to work on brake light switch but didn't see any ground wires.
2) Not sure on jets only recently bought it??? local bike so should not be altitude issue....hopefully. Runs sweet.
3) Appears good as no stumble when snapping open throttle (free or on road)
4) good question have to locate that one.
5) Standard at present but age unknown all appeared good until after I flooded it once and thinking I probably stuffed the plugs. not clearing the problem after a few good rides, I am guessing they are probably coated, you know that invisible demon. Had same things used to happen on race bikes - never ran long or well on champion plugs but went forever on NGK brand. Thats why I asked initial question.
6) yeah visual and "spray" tested
7) Nope

[dave_9113]

OK, we are getting close. 

Sorry to confuse you on 1).  What I meant to say is check the (-) wire at the battery an overall tightness of wiring.  And your handlebar switches just might be going in/out.  You might want to spray it some with electrical contact cleaner.  Those switches can really give you grief. (after re-reading your post, what I wrote above is just more check, but you are getting the starter to crank with no issues).

OK, let's go on.


Don't think it's your jets.  Doesn't sound like it from what you describe.  And I would put new Champion plugs in.  They are as good as any because they make them for Harley, or used to.  I haven't kept up.  Is there a small vacuum hose coming off of your S&S carb anywhere (might be off of manifold)?  It would be hooked up to your VOES switch, which is mounted somewhere in between your cylinder. Again, this would not cause a hard starting problem though, come to think of it. 

OK, now I'm reaching.  When you hit the button, the engine cranks over "forever" but does not start when cold.  Ok, we know this.  You aren't flooding it right? Ok, then iginition is good...ie. .you are getting spark from plugs.  Pull them to check when cold to see if you have a blue spark?  Lastly, must check fuel delivery issue.  You have a vacuum operated petcock right?  Is it functioning correctly?  Also pull your carb cover to actually see the pump squirting fuel down your carb. 

fuel + compression + spark = start.  That's all I know. 

dave

[Maj]

I had the same problem with my Evo if it sat for more than 2 weeks. Sucker didn't want to start. Started great once warm. After some experimentation it seems my scoot is very cold-blooded. I now quickly crack the throttle at least 5 times (accelerator pump squirts fuel) and then use full choke (I have the factory carb). If it doesn't easily start I'll crack the throttle 3 or more times. Seems there is no such thing as flooding with my bike.

[Phu Cat]

Spanners, Do ya have a cv carb?  They require the throttle be completely closed until the engine starts.

PC

[86fxwg]

Check to make sure you dont have a voltage drop to your coil cold.Make sure  you have a good blue spark cold it should jump at least 1/2to3/4 of an inch.Anything less you have a weak coil.Make sure your voes is not stuck they dont like alot of timing cold. Good luck!

Dave

[Evo1]

Check to make sure you dont have a voltage drop to your coil cold.Make sure  you have a good blue spark cold it should jump at least 1/2to3/4 of an inch.Anything less you have a weak coil.Make sure your voes is not stuck they dont like alot of timing cold. Good luck!

Dave

What do you mean by "they don't like alot of timing" ?
Thanks Steve

[Grayrider]

I also have to twist the throttle, but more like 8 - 10 times on a cold,  been sitting a while EVO! 97' Heritage
They need lots of fuel on start up when sitting! Have a CV carb but I doubt it is the carb requirement but rather the amount of fuel needed. I pull the enrichener out full and twist as mentioned. It starts after a few cranks, Then I lock the throttle in a 1500 rev position and close the enrichener otherwise you chance fouling the plugs once the fuel starts to flow! Let it warm up on the higher rev for a bit. A few minutes and you can ride away. I keep it under 2000 rpm for a bit until I know it is nice and toasty warm and responsive.
They all have their own quirks though!

[Justpassingas]

I agree with greyrider....sounds like you need to give it a few more twists of the throttle before staring and get more fuel in there....my old shovel had a tickler on the carb and I'd give it quite a few squirts in colder weather...If I didn't get a little puff of smoke outta the carb when kick starting it I knew it needed more fuel....if the motor continues to turn over and doesn't catch and flattens the battery pull your plugs out and I'll bet you there bone dry....good reason why I love my EFI bike in cold weather........

[86fxwg]

Ok Il try to keep this short.Had a pan head that was a bitch to start cold.He had relaced the carb with a brand new s&s,New dist,plugs wires.Still dint help.So he brought it to me I checked voltage at the battery wire to the coil It only had 9.58 volts but the battery had 12.8 voltts thats the voltage drop so i found the bad connection at the on/off switch.After checking the coil with a scope it only had 9kv so the coil out put was bad cold but once it warmed up it took less voltage to jump the plug gap replaced the coil and wala it startes on the first kick.But it still started like crap if you dont retared the timing with the dist,since you dont have a dist your voes switch (could be stuck) and advancing the timing cold.Iv worked for GM for 16 years and any car likes timing cold to start and i still dont under stand Y harleys dont like the timing advanced when cold starting.


Dave

[5/29/29]

You are describing my recent problem exactly. 92fxr, 260K miles. (85k on factory reman)
Occured over a perion of a month or so.
First start it would clunk but not spin, then it would turn over with no indication it had spark. After some time it smelled flooded.It seemd like I would get the first pop as I let off the starter.
Checked the battery voltage and got 13.24V which I thought was perfect. Battery was 4 1/2 years old, sealed type. Unheard fo on a fill it up if you could see where the level was.
Put a new battery in and it starts so fast its frightening.
The lesson I think is these new batterys don't fail like the old ones, they keep trying the old ones slow down and click click.
e

[barny7655]

Take your choke cable out, clean it and air blow the internals , lubricate when re assemble, you will find its all rusty and not working , cheers good luck ,check your pet cock as well ,  barny

[spanners]

THNX Guys...Solved.....

checked in with local custom shop here in western Sydney and all relates to S&S it appears as they are good for dragging and roll ons but not so good as a streetable carb..

here's their tip and works a treat as apparently they choke up and can'r breath if you pull out the enrichener before you start cranking:

1. with or wothout a rtwist or 2 of throttle
2 start cranking
3. while cranking pull out enrichener so it has a gut full of air and has started to breath
4. veolia - fires and away we go....

As siad in thread though lock throttle at 1200-1500 hndred ubtil wqarm as she takes a while.

it doesn't like ACCEL plugs eithert and told by HD Dealer to religiously stick with genuine brand sparkers.

BTW it's late spring down here so i needed to sort this out b4 winter or else......

THNX for all the input.