Throttle/spark/handlebar blues

[Little Al]

Had a tangle today with my handlebars and the internals.

I have a few sets of bars and 2 OEM clamps. I also collected (via eBay) a few extra internals with and without cables. Being in "mock-up" mode (see my other thread) I wanted to get all the internals and bars set up correctly.

I picked the bars that I wanted to use, they are OEM but don't know what year. both sides have that big thick ferrule that the grip butts up against. The throttle side was no problem, it twisted but the inner cable didn't move. I took it apart and basically it just needed to be lubed well and the set screw to be replaced (it was missing) that holds the outer cable in place inside the bars. It also needed one of the little collers that the pin rides with inside the spiral. one hour and the throttle side is done and worked (although I am ordering new cables for both sides)

Spark side, whew, do I really need it, lol?

the bars had a completely different set up on that side, never seen one like it. It had a continuation of the bars past that chrome ferrule that was not the right size to put the internal into. it was the same size as the internal piece that SHOULD go into it (the one with the long oval slot for the "plunger" to go into with the pin & coller to go up into the spiral). sooooo, using an old one as a guide, I cut the end off (at the ferrule) then dremmeled the inside diameter of the bars (it was very, very close) to fit the piece in. I'm ordering the replacement part (NOSParts #56090-53) and hoping this is gonna work out as I expect. I have a good inner spiral and outer sleeve that came from a damaged set of eBay bars (correct, spark side).

think I'm on the right track with this one?

[Pzokes]

Would you post a  picture of the bars.  There are a couple of different types of spirals. 

[Little Al]

I realized I may have really screwed up my original post in trying to explain, so I'll try again WITH pictures:

The cut off, mangled part (the end with the slot for the "plunger) is what I used to ream out the interior of my bars to fit. I really just cleaned it up. tomorrow I'm ordering the replacement part from NOSParts. I have the rest, inner spiral and out sleeve, already. I hope I'm thinking right on this. As you can see (big mistake?) I cut off the bars on the left side flush with the chrome "ferrule"

When I put in the replacement, I know I gotta get a snug fit, thinking maybe sweating it in too, just for security that it can't move.

[ohio-rider]

The spiral hand grips require an excellent fit between several pieces in order to work properly. If the tolerances begin to compound as things go together, you will end up with a good deal of slop when reversing direction of with the control. A dead spot on the timer control spiral isn’t to bad, but a sloppy accelerator spiral will drive you crazy at red lights. While your waiting on your other parts to come in try and find yourself a nice 1.000 reamer. You’ll need it before your through. Good Luck.

[MBSKEAM]

http://www.geocities.com/mbskeam/pics3.html

I would tig weld the new part to your handle bars, this is real important for your safety.....

mbskeam

[Little Al]

TIG wouldn't destroy the bars?

I thought about a weld but figured the heat would destroy the nice aged chrome on the bars. I figured with a very tight fit (which I anticipate) of the new part (we'll see once I get it) sweating it in would be pretty solid with minimal heat. I've sweat well on 2", 3" and 4" copper pipe carrying steam and water, pretty strong I think but I'm always open to those smarter and/or more knowledgeable then me.

[MBSKEAM]

no not if it is welded a little at a time and a wet rag just up from the welded area

mbskeam

[Little Al]

advice well taken. I'll have it TIG'd once I got it in.

[Pzokes]

You could also TIG the ends onto new aftermarket bars with a different profile...maybe something a little higher or wider....something that fits you, not the "fits all" bars supplied by the factory. 

[Little Al]

I never even thought of that, I guess I just had it in my head that I need "old" bars. Didn't consider that those internals could go into newer bars.

I'll keep that in mind once I start riding her (a while off, lol) since I've not ridden a rigid in "stock" positioning in a very, very long time and these old bones may want something entirely different now anyway. Sitting on the seat on the frame on my dolly in my kitchen though, these bars seem fine, LOL

[Little Al]

Pzokes, I haven't gotten the part yet from NOS, but do you know if they fit in newer style bars?

you got me thinking now on using different bars. I guess I can just check when I get it, I have about 10 sets of bars laying around from various bikes and years

[Little Al]

Well I got the bars all done, man it was a lot of hand fitting getting both the throttle and spark controls to work like they should. In the end it was worth it though!

Now I'm curious about routing the front brake cable. I'm putting the front brake lever on the right side and was wondering about the routing of the cable, what have you guys done to route the cable to the right side? in front of the trees, behind or in front of the tins? or behind the trees? The steel tube well eventually get a clip to attach it to the fender right? Or am I just totally confused about this? lol

[Pzokes]

I'm confused on what you're trying to do.  It looks like an aluminum nacelle top triple tree, but you're assembling a rigid frame bike that uses the early style tins.

[Little Al]

Hell, I'm confused most of the time!

The trees are OEM from a '49 (45705-49). I bought the entire front end complete as a unit. The Stainless Steel tins I took off myself and they fit perfectly. They are correct, I believe, for a '49, V design stripes (not horizontal like my '54 should have)), Hydra Glide on top edge.

Actually I even confused myself on this question. I have it now.

My '54 should have the front brake lever mounted on the left bar, I'm mounting it on the right bar (doing foot clutch) and I was trying to figure the routing of the front brake cable up to the lever on the right bar. I do have it figured out now though.

[MBSKEAM]

on tank shift the brake lever is on the left, but you can put it on the right...
what ever feels best for you....
mine goes in front of the tins and has a clamp on the fender

what did you do on the bars/ends? got a pic?

mbskeam

[Little Al]

Yeah, lever on left... It may be hard enough getting used to tank shift, foot clutch, don't wanna throw braking into the confusion so I'm gonna put the brake lever on  the right.

After i got the repair part from NOS Parts I pulled out all the split bars I had (3 sets) and made a decision on which bars I wanted to use. I managed to strip all the various internals from all the bars and set myself on a mission. A mere 5 hours later I have a set of bars that I like that have ALL the internals working great. before final asembly on the bike I still need to have the repair piece TIG welded and once the motor is in and I route the cable I'll have to work something out for for converting the push action to pull action for the carb. when that time comes I know you guys will have some suggestions for solutions to that.

since my brake is going on the right and the way the cable's rigid tube comes up to the lower tree I really have no choice but to run the flex part of the cable over to the right behind the tins

Anyway, i'm happy with how it all turned out.

[MBSKEAM]

http://www.caimag.com/forum/f24/linkert-throttle-lever-reversing-kit-1278-2.html

http://www.caimag.com/forum/f49/throttle-spiral-question-816.html

mbskeam

[Little Al]

pretty informative links

gotta find that Linkert throttle reverse kit now, lol

[Pynzo]

Al- get a pull throttle spiral and you won't need that kit. HD part # 56220-58 for reverse/pull. J&P sells it for $54 part #500-600.

[Little Al]

Yeah, I saw that in the links mbskeam posted. also saw older independants might have/can get some sorta kit to accomplish the same thing.

I'm not sure I can handle redoing those internals again, lol. it was a lot of hours and frustrating for me. it will be a last resort for me.

I have time on this, motor going in is a ways off, never mind the carb setup. I'll keep this in my notes though, because when the time comes, this old brain will have totally forgotten about the reverse spiral! lol

Thanks!

[Pynzo]

It's just a matter of pulling out the end screw and swapping the spiral. Internals don't have to come out. The kit that post is about is to change throttle direction on a Linkert, not to adapt a push throttle to an S&S or any other later pull throttle carb.

[Little Al]

ok, i got it now!

sometimes I can be thick, lol

I looked up the part in J&P (thanks for the number) and I see, two minute swap. cool. I'll add it to my next order with them. humm that makes me wanna start yet another thread! Man, I'm keeping a lot of posts going here. Since some of us ain't down daytona, we need to be doing something!

[greybeard_541]

On the front brake cable. Make sure where you've routed it that it's frre from binding or kinking in any fashion. It should make one large sweeping curve to where it meets with the tube on the lower end. I found out the hard way about the binding factor. Kinked front brake cable is no fun to replace.

Hope it helps,
Greybeard

[Pzokes]

Or you can use the long brake cable tube used on late Pans.  It bolts to the front fender and routes the cable to the other side of the bike...and it is chromed.

[Kuda]

Hell, I'm confused most of the time!

The trees are OEM from a '49 (45705-49).

Um...no, they ain't. At least the top one isn't a '49.  That's a later model rubber-bushed top triple tree and riser/bar clamp. The stock '49 non-adjustable tree had two little holes in the top, just the size of the through-bolt, and used two independent risers with pressed-in bushings in 'em. 

-Kuda (but great job on the rest!) 
'49 panchop   

[CraigArizona85248]

Yep... Kuda is right.  That is not a '49 top triple tree.  Here is a photo of a '49 triple tree... this one has been shaved and chrome plated.  Note the big difference in the holes where the risers mount.

[Pynzo]

The riser holes are 4-3/4" apart and the riser holes in your top are 3-1/2". I lucked out and found a set of NOS 8" pullback riser onepiece drag bars for that early top on ebay, got them for $15.

[CraigArizona85248]

Yep... finding the 4-3/4" risers can be tricky.  I just went with risers that didn't have a fixed width top clamp.

-Craig

[Little Al]

I defer to the knowledge you guys have. The bottom of the trees has the 48 Part number, I just assumed the top was correct.

It's not an issue for me, I'm not THAT concerned with being correct.

In the end, I'm happy with how the whole ting turned out.

[Pzokes]

I didn't do a follow up comment on my "confused" comment about your top triple tree, because you said that it fit OK with your tin.  I didn't think that you would want to start changing everything when you just finished all that work.  And your not building it  to have the nose-pickers & arse-scratchers judge it.

[Little Al]

the only nose pickin' and scratching will be done by ME on MY bike, LOL

I ain't changing a thing on those bars, trees or tins other then adding the mirror, grips and swapping out the throttle spiral for the "reverse" one suggested by Pynzo to make the throttle a "pull". I ordered it today along with a few other small items, from J&P.