Bagger wobble and the gizmos for sale

[Pilgrim]

I had a serious rear sway today. 90 mph on a two lane road, (yeah I know too fast), left hand sweeping turn. Guy behind me says "your rear tire was all over the place" and I could feel it. Felt like it was going to jump, then slid, then jump , then slide, all at the same time but sideways to the right. Tires are fine, 16k on rear mounts maybe 4k on a new front mount.

Hey, Glide, I'd say the first thing to look at is a new rear tire.  At 16k miles your rear tire most likely has a near-flat center section on it, even if the tread still looks good.  Almost certainly so unless you ride a whole more aggressively than most bagger pilots (I'm one; '07 RG now after 23 years on an FXRT - which I still have) to wear off the sharp edges of the tire and keep the profile round,  Take it into a curve and the wheel won't be able to make up its mind whether it wants to be on the center section or the outside and it will "hunt" back and forth across that edge trying to figure out where to run.  It does just what you've said, and yes, it can be seen in operation by a rider behind.  In just over 180,000 miles and two sets of swing arm bushings on that FXRT I have never had a handling problem that did not turn out to be tires.

Also, even if you apparently have "enough" tread on the rear, the tire will often lose a degree of rigidity when it's worn down low.  It'll flex a little more than normal, which lends to the imprecise handling problem.

So far, with 21k miles on the RG, I wouldn't buy one of those gadgets at half price.  But then, I'm a skeptic when I see companies selling expensive solutions to problems that nobody seems to have noticed before the solution was invented.

At least that's been my experience.  YMMV.

Pilgrim

[Bakon]

I too rode hard on baggers for years. Love beating a softail after they called my bike a minivan. Now they are all on minivans and I lost the tourpack. Most of my riding is in curvy Pennsylvania backroads with a blast down some highway about 1/3 of the time.
But getting back to the tire. I agree it could be some of the cause, it is more than half the tread depth of a new one but a center flat is developing. Maybe 1-1 1/2 inches wide. Not like a wore one at more than 2 wide and looks like a flat profile. Maybe Harley's new tire will stop the touring wear from highway riding. It is not the original tire but probably got 4,000 miles. I was getting 10,000 a set on the rear but this Streetglide doesn't wear them as hard as an Ultra. I think at 12,000 I changed it because the flat spot was so wide, but the tread was still visible. I have felt minor wobble on all my bikes when pushing high speeds (80+). Not enough to do something, except one time-some loose spokes on a rear rim which made me change my underwear after 10 miles. No more spokes- ever!

I am going to try a bagger brace but the winter is on here and salt on the road, I wont have a definite answer to hard riding for a few months. I still ride the winter when the road is safe, but never trust the bends till April. Maybe take another look at the tire too.

[WVULTRA]

Again, not looking for opinions on why I do or dont need it.  I felt the wobble, its real. I wanted input on placing the jack under the frame with this in position.

SHO:

Here's a good read that might answer your original question(s):

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276105

[Bakon]

WV- thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for.

Sorry about Pitt beating WV yesterday. Real gentleman to still give me the info after I said I was in Pa. My mother is down in Fairmont so I have to call her an rub it in.

[TheBoss]

Thanx for asking the question SHOStreetglide. This is a much needed thread.

I am not sure what it is that the performance riding instructor is missing. I would like him to know I am 50 years old and started riding at age 9 with a CT 70. I have road all kinds bikes and for different reasons. My 06 RG was in tip top condition and my back tire is 500 miles new and I went down last week due to a High Speed Wobble. Doing 60 to 70 on a major 5 lane highway changing lanes to pass a semitrailer rig and the bike went nutz. I went down, got bumps, bruises and pulled muscles everywhere and my bike got totaled. I am lucky I am alive and did not suffer any major injuries. I don't want to hear any cynicism about High Speed Wobble being a myth. Its REAL. I didn't know anything about it until my research after the wreck. Until I learn more I thought the wind sheer of the truck caused it but I felt the back wheel loose it.

As far as the depictions on the True Track site, I took it to show a bike going down after the High Speed Wobble. Its just 2 photos. How can you show a High Speed Wobble in a still photo and of course we all know since riding our hot rod bicycles when we where kids you lean it on its side far enough the wheels will not touch the ground any more. Same science applies to motor bikes the same will happen no matter how you got there.

On my new RG I am going to get the front fork springs and back shocks changed to Progress. I will also get the BB and Pro-glide installed. After what I know I will not risk it.

[TheBoss]

Sorry if I rubbed you wrong but we totally agree:
"I don't want to hear any cynicism about High Speed Wobble being a myth. Its REAL."

The following are from statements previous posts:

"High speed wobble is inate to every 2 wheeled vehicle no matter what you add-on or do to eliminate instability, it will always rear its ugly head, and sometimes, at the most in-opertune time(s)."

"My advice as a performance riding instructor is if your bike at 1 point did not noticably wobble, then do the diagnostics and replace whatever is causing the instability, which is at least 90% of the time the tire(s) NO MATTER HOW MUCH TREAD IS LEFT."

And refering to your experience attempting to pass a truck and the wind shear causing the bike to get completely out of your control:
"So, get 2 wheeled performance riding educated (ie: performance riding school) because that will keep a rider alive much better than any add-on accessary. Keep your bike in tip-top condition with fresh tires and you will not have issues with handling beyond what is natural and expected."

High Speed Wobble is NOT innate to every 2 wheeled vehicle. I have been researching this for all week and have seen many motorcycle models and makes not mentioned. Your advice is WRONG about the tire thread and I have plenty of 2 wheeled performance riding education and experience. You Sir don't know what your talking about. Until you have been involved in a High Speed Wobble you will not know.

[Azgunner]

I've had the "bagger" wobble on my Dyna for over a year now. It developed about the same time I changed front ends on my '02 FXDL. I put a used, stock WG front end on my bike. Soon, but not immediately, thereafter I began to experience the wobble mostly in sweeping turns over 75 MPH & also occasionally going straight over 80 MPH. I've changed wheels, tires, maintenanced & checked & adjusted everything there is to check. I was in a wreck in Oct. & the bike now has a new stock WG front end. It still has a wobble so I don't think the WG front end has anything to do with the wobble.

An interesting thing is when I would put a brand new tire on the rear the straight line wobble would immediately get much worse & then improve with the amount of wear on the tire. As the tire would get very worn the wobble would begin to get a little worse. The only thing that has not been done to this bike is to replace the entire swing arm & bearing assy. I am considering some type of "gizmo" at this point. I hate to throw any more money needlessly at this issue, but I and many others are now at a loss as to the cause of the wobble.

[TheBoss]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C/P
The high spped wobble is found in all year specific bikes that use the same frame as the ultra classic, 2005 to present I believe. The problem is that the swing arm is attatched to the transmission, which is part of the engine. The engine is rubber mounted allowing the transmission to stay in line with the rear tire but not the front tire. At higher speed cornering the bike starts to wobble and can become so violent that the rider will lose control. Harley Davidson has settled class action suits without admitting fault. You can find on line where the Honolulu and the L.A. Police Departments have stopped using HD for their police bikes because of the wobble they found diring their testing. The dealers I have talked to say that they cannot duplicate the problem because their insurance does not allow them to ride at the necessary speed. Harley Davidson is coverring up a problem that is injuring and even killing people. If this was Firestone, Goodyear, Ford or any other major consumer product manufacturer, a recall would have already happened. Check out the link, it shows one class action suit against Harley Davidson. http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/lawsuit1.htm


You said "So, get 2 wheeled performance riding educated (ie: performance riding school) because that will keep a rider alive much better than any add-on accessary. Keep your bike in tip-top condition with fresh tires and you will not have issues with handling beyond what is natural and expected."

WRONG............This problem does need do-dads to help fix it.

[TheKing]

I have been reading these wobble threads for some time. The crotch rocket riders are insulted by our terminology. To them the wobble is when the front handle bars do a tank slapper. Never been there and don't wanna be. The harley riders wobble is more of a stability during sweeping corners. The arc or cornering radius changes as (is even more severe as the road has bumps) you are navigating a corner. The 09 models fix this problem a lot. I purchase a brace and immediately noticed the change. This doesn't help a lot in straight line riding. I did notice on grooved roads that I am no longer pushed around from the groove. The cornering is more nimble and predictable. I believe most all of the harley's have this except the 09's to some degree. I have heard a lot of people just saying you don't know how to ride. Even if you don't ride aggressively it is their. I would recommend this for the xmas list. It would consider this one of my best investments on the bike. 06 RKC. I am not endorsing any brand just saying they do work and they do wobble on sweep corners. Note that there are other issues that can cause this but I am mainly talking about low mileage newer bikes. If your tires are worn down this is the first place to start.

[Admiral Akbar]

"High Speed Wobble is NOT innate to every 2 wheeled vehicle."

I agree.. My daughther crf70 as never had any kind of a hight speed wobble..

"Your advice is WRONG about the tire thread and I have plenty of 2 wheeled performance riding education and experience."

He's not.. My Dyna used to wobble that always go progressively worse as the tire wore..  new tire all much better..

"I will also get the BB and Pro-glide installed. After what I know I will not risk it."

Take a look at the link system.. Many are using cheasy 6 dollar Hiems without dust seals. You'll be luck to get 10K miles before they are shot.. Inspect em every oil change..

"I put a used, stock WG front end on my bike. Soon, but not immediately, thereafter I began to experience the wobble mostly in sweeping turns over 75 MPH & also occasionally going straight over 80 MPH."

If you are using a stock or after market steel 21 rim on the WG front end. replace it with a good aluminum one (or mag). If you are still running the 19 you lost trail..

Max

[CrazyRay]

Hey Boss I'm glad you're ok after that crash. 

King, you say you bought a brace. Which one did you choose and why? I thought all these braces helped in straight line as well as curves.

CrazyRay

[flht99b]

For what it's worth I just installed the Glide-Pro system and Glide-Pro front motor mount and am very pleased.  Jake says to give it 300 to 500 miles of break in but so far I have no issues and the wiggle I had is gone.  Overall the chassis feels tighter and crisper.  I do not feel any vibration I didn't already have before, in fact the bike is smoother at idle.  Ed M.

[noliners]

I went down  a few years ago due to wobble.   Me and my Roadking survived.  I installed a Tru-Track and now it handles like a slot car.  I have bought 2 more for my buddies, makes more sense than some bell!   They are all believers.

[Azgunner]

"I put a used, stock WG front end on my bike. Soon, but not immediately, thereafter I began to experience the wobble mostly in sweeping turns over 75 MPH & also occasionally going straight over 80 MPH."

If you are using a stock or after market steel 21 rim on the WG front end. replace it with a good aluminum one (or mag). If you are still running the 19 you lost trail..

Max

I've had a stock WG 21" wheel w/ spokes checked for tightness & rim for runout. Also changed to an aftermarket 80-twisted spoke 21" wheel & still have the wobble issues regardless of which wheel or replacement of tires.

[jamesd12]

 Howdy all,

I experienced a tank slapper on my 01 electraglide at 70 mph on the freeway going from one lane to another while going around a car. Scared the crap out of me. I was also experiencing a lot of straight line instabiblity at higher speeds ( 70 +). But bike was rock solid at any speed while riding two up (except in corners) I put a Tru-Track on my bike and noticed an improved stability when pushing hard into a corner. No strasight line improvement. Wobble not fixed. other things fixed wobble (cHASED IT FOR TWO YEARS HERE).

No regrets on the purchase of the tru_track though. I never had any misconceptions of what it would or wouldn't do. BTW thanks to all for the help everyone(you too Bob

Jamesd12

[TheKing]

CrazyRay,
Sorry, I'm not going to advertise a product. I've seen too many people get fired-up on who's the best and do you have some connection to the product. There are several good products on the market. I selected the easiest to install and moderate price. It does use a heim joint connecting the cross member (frame) to the oil pan (motor). It took me about 20 minutes to install. Six bolts to the oil pan and two bolts to hold the bracket to the frame. I didn't have to remove the exhaust or anything. The worst part was after I placed the blue locktite on the bolts and place them on the garage floor I knocked a couple of the bolts over.

In my previous post my reference was to newer bikes. Places I have read for potential issues is the neck bearings, rear swing arm rubber bushings and tires

Theory of how they wobble? I've read several and my best guess is the rubber bushing give on the swing. The motor is supported by rubber mounts. The force of the motor bouncing/moving around forces the rear swing arm to move. It's like having rear wheel drive steering and you are changing the angle of the rear tire. As you bounce in a sweeping corner you have a more drastic angle change in the rear tire. Hence you wobble. Some bikes will be a little looser causing more wobble and some less.

I'm not an expert.... Just giving my opinion on what I have read and interpreted.

[sandrooney]

I had an 05 Ultra, and I have an 07 Ultra and a 95 RK. I have put on about 60,000 miles between the three of them, and never experienced a wobble.
I don't ride hard, I have had each one of them up to a hundred or so a couple times, but mostly 75 and 80 . I don't take the curves hard, if I wanted to do that I would get a bike designed to do that. Maybe you have to ride them hard to get the wobble. A friend of mine has an 06 Ultra and he has never had a wobble.
Just my experience,
SR

[tireater]

I have seen many baggers wobble on big high speed sweepers...especially if you throw in a few bumps...

[sandrooney]

I guess I just don't take the sweepers at high enough speed. When I was a kid and thought I was going to live forever( but didn't know forever was over three days ) I couldn,t get a bike to go fast enough, but now I guess I would like to live to ride another day.
From what those tank slappers sound like , I hope I never experience one.
SR

[fxdx2k]

I have a Dyna Super Glide Sport, not a bagger, but still rubber mount. My bike just never felt quite right. At high speeds in a straight line it would sometimes start to shake it's head and in high speed sweepers (with or without bumps) it would do the same. Every thing was checked (alignment, mounts, and so on) and several different tire types were tried. I then installed a steering damper and the Dyna equivalent of the "True Trac" from Sputhe. The bike felt a little better, but there were still random times when the shake would occur. I'm not an inexperienced rider and I know that any two wheeled vehicle can exhibit instability when the right conditions are present, but this was happening too often for it to be just the right conditions as the cause. I ended up taking the bike to a Computrack facility. Long story made short, after the Computrack session and the fixes they did to the frame no more bad habits! I still have the steering damper and "True Trac" installed and feel that they do what they are intended to, but they could not correct for a untrue frame.

Moral of the story: If you have done all the right things and your bike still does weird things it may be time to be thinking about having the frame checked. I'm convinced that any rubber mounted bike can exhibit the wobble or shake if pushed hard and the conditions are right, but it will happen easier and more often if things are not exactly right with the entire chassis.

[ejk_dyna]

<<I ended up taking the bike to a Computrack facility. Long story made short, after the Computrack session and the fixes they did to the frame no more bad habits! >>

What issues did they identify?

[kickstart]

I used Sta-Bos.
Satisfied me.
Others that attatched to the oil pan seemed that they could fail and soak the rear tire with oil - worst case scenario.
JMHO
kickstart

[Eglider05]

I used Sta-Bos.
Satisfied me.
Others that attatched to the oil pan seemed that they could fail and soak the rear tire with oil - worst case scenario.
JMHO
kickstart

Never heard of one failing yet.

Rick

[RKC03]

I pull a trailer behind my FLHRCI and have thought for that reason alone that maybe I should get a "stabilizer. I, myself have experienced the "wobble" and since the first time I have been more "on top of it" because of the past experiences. I have not bought it yet, but believe I'm going with the "bagger brace". It looks to be of good quality and a few posts back (may have been on the old HTT) that the makers were having a hard time keeping up with the demand....believe it was the cheapest (price-wise). It will probably be my X-mas gift to my FLHRCI (and myself).  I have a new frame on the "KING" as the original killed a deer..........RKC03

[kickstart]

I pull a trailer behind my FLHRCI and have thought for that reason alone that maybe I should get a "stabilizer.

I pull a trailer with my 99.
Also a few years ago I upgraded to all new 06 rear end, swing arm and all from the pivot bolt back.

And no I haven't heqard of one of these "failing" yet either, but who wants to find out if that will happen, as I said Worst case scenerio.