Lets talk suspension upgrades for a bagger

[TRUBlue]

Yes, the Traxxion do have adjustments for the front that changes the valving which is everything in the way the suspension performs. It is not something to overlook an the adjustments make a huge difference in the way they function. Without the adjustment, they would not be everything I'm talking them up to be.

External adjustments on the forks, I'd like to see those.  Where's the knob?  How much $$$?

[1931jamesw]

The adjustment is on the fork cap. I had to modify the little plastic piece that houses that. I will post pictures later. As we all know there are no one-size-fits-all on suspension until you have an adjustable suspension like the Traxxion dynamics AK 20. It's nice to even be able to change even if you ride just one up all the time. If you are out ripping around it's nice to have it set up sporty. If you're going to take a two week tour and just want to relax it's nice to soften it up. If you have a fat wife it's nice to stiffen it up. If you have a skinny girlfriend it's nice to soften it up. Are we still talking suspension? Maybe with the skinny girlfriend it's nice to stiffen it up.

[1931jamesw]

In my opinion coupling the Traxxion dynamics AK 20 with the Bitubo WMTs ensures you will not be doing suspension again there is so much adjustability and flexibility you can get the ride anyway you want it. There are no disapppointments doing it this way.

[Admiral Akbar]

Progressive monotubes up front to get rid of the brake dive, if you're not too heavy or don't do much 2 up riding the CVO hand adjustable may work.  Otherwise, I'd spend the extra money and go for JRI or Ohlin.  If I had to chose cams or rear shocks, I'd pump up the rears and get the cams.  The other option is a set of Progressive 444s, not nearly as good as JRI or Ohlin but a great deal better than stock.  It seems someone is always sell them for < $300 or so when upgrading.

FWIW Spring selection gets rid of brake dive.. You can use slow speed compression damping but it kills "plushness"

Funny but the heaviest Racteck springs for fairinged baggers, is too soft IMO.. The Racetechs heaviest 1.0kg/mm work OK on a Roadking but there is still a bit of dive..  In a fairinged bagger, they'd be too soft IMO and I weight 185.. Of course if you toss the radio, the lighter springs might be OK.. 

Max

[04 SE Deuce]

Max,  Like we have talked,  yellow 64lb/in. emulator springs set at 2 - 2.5 turns and up the oil level to get rid of dive.
The 4 hole mod. and setting the emulator spring at a low preload (2 turns) takes care of the plushness. 

More progressive spring and damping curves....we're working with big heavy, soft sprung, limited travel cruisers.   Rick

[No Cents]

got any pictures of your front suspension set up James? ...I got the name right this time   

[1931jamesw]

I'll get some up later tonight. Still working in the shop tonight trying to catch up a little. PM returned.

[Admiral Akbar]

Max,  Like we have talked,  yellow 64lb/in. emulator springs set at 2 - 2.5 turns and up the oil level to get rid of dive.
The 4 hole mod. and setting the emulator spring at a low preload (2 turns) takes care of the plushness. 

More progressive spring and damping curves....we're working with big heavy, soft sprung, limited travel cruisers.   Rick

Well.. The last I checked you don't own a road toad or a bagger..    I'll reserve judgement until someone that copies your idea on one of those..  Now some thoughts..

1. Is upping the fluid leveled from 160 to 150 going to increase the support of the front end in the first 1/2 of the travel (from static sag) or then second 1/2?

2. which one is going to cause less dive?  2 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring or 4 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring ?

Max

[1931jamesw]

I highly discourage running any other fluid level than the proper level. It can cause a very dangerous or deadly situation. Im game for running 150 MPH plus but I would never want to run improper amount of fluid in the forks. Heres a pictures of the adjustment of the AK-20's. There is a knob on each fork cap. One for compression and one for rebound. This picture shows the cap installed with the knob.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[1931jamesw]

Heres one with the shroud replaced. I modified the plastic by opening the area up with a die grinder so I can adjust the knobs on the fly running down the road. The knobs turn very easily, I can turn them with one finger.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[q1svt]

2. which one is going to cause less dive?  2 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring or 4 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring ?

Max

Since it seems that people doing this also go from 2 holes & 10w fork oil to 4 holes & 20w... doesn't seem that there is anything really different.

JRI, writeup suggests to little rear shock rebound dampening can increase weight transfer to the front forks, adding some can slow the weight transfer to the front forks... guess it's all about about balance and rider preference.

Rebound damping can also effect weight transfer, cornering, and feel of the motorcycle. The lighter the amount of rebound damping front or rear will greatly affect your weight transfer of the motorcycle. If you lessen the rebound damping in the front forks of the motorcycle it will transfer weight quicker to the rear of the motorcycle as the brakes are released or under acceleration. The same goes for the rear shock, if you lessen the rebound damping in the rear it will quicken the weight transfer to the front of the motorcycle especially as you apply the front brakes, and on turn in.

edited: forgot to mention that braking technique (too little rear braking/ timing] is the most commend cause of frontend drive...

[DrSpencer]

I'm using Traxxion's AK-20 & Bitubo suspension on my 2011 Street Glide.

I'd like to add CCE's triple trees, but can't get a definitive answer if they're compatible with the AK-20's.

A couple months ago, I spoke with both Traxxion & CCE, and neither vendor could assure correct fitment.

If anyone has any additional info, please share.

Thanks

[Admiral Akbar]

2. which one is going to cause less dive?  2 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring or 4 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring ?

Max

Since it seems that people doing this also go from 2 holes & 10w fork oil to 4 holes & 20w... doesn't seem that there is anything really different.

JRI, writeup suggests to little rear shock rebound dampening can increase weight transfer to the front forks, adding some can slow the weight transfer to the front forks... guess it's all about about balance and rider preference.

Rebound damping can also effect weight transfer, cornering, and feel of the motorcycle. The lighter the amount of rebound damping front or rear will greatly affect your weight transfer of the motorcycle. If you lessen the rebound damping in the front forks of the motorcycle it will transfer weight quicker to the rear of the motorcycle as the brakes are released or under acceleration. The same goes for the rear shock, if you lessen the rebound damping in the rear it will quicken the weight transfer to the front of the motorcycle especially as you apply the front brakes, and on turn in.

edited: forgot to mention that braking technique (too little rear braking/ timing] is the most commend cause of frontend drive...

I think that the JRI suspension tuning guide is more about sport bikes where the weight transfer is greater from the back to the front..

Changing the fork oil will also effect rebound damping and flow through the valve when open..

Max

[m1marty]

Max,  Like we have talked,  yellow 64lb/in. emulator springs set at 2 - 2.5 turns and up the oil level to get rid of dive.
The 4 hole mod. and setting the emulator spring at a low preload (2 turns) takes care of the plushness. 

More progressive spring and damping curves....we're working with big heavy, soft sprung, limited travel cruisers.   Rick

Well.. The last I checked you don't own a road toad or a bagger..    I'll reserve judgement until someone that copies your idea on one of those..  Now some thoughts..

1. Is upping the fluid leveled from 160 to 150 going to increase the support of the front end in the first 1/2 of the travel (from static sag) or then second 1/2?

2. which one is going to cause less dive?  2 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring or 4 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring ?

Max

Max- 2013 Roag Glide. 1.0kg springs,Yellow springs, 2.5 turns, 4 holes, proper amount of fluid (spectro 20w) Brake dive, while still there to a small extent, is so much better than stock its remarkable. Coupled with the 944s out back this bike ride very nice. Its set up a bit stiff as its ridden pretty hard. Not traxk bike nice but much better than stock. A little real world feedbaxk for ya......

[DOM]

DrSpencer.  I half remember speaking with Traxxion about the the CCE and thought they had a solution.  The thing to remember here, is that the CCE system comes with new fork tubes.  You will need to have Traxxion disassemble your your existing forks, modify the CCE tubes (like they modify all other tubes), reassemble.  I know progressive will provide longer fork caps for their cartridge system for the CCE tubes.  I would find it shocking that Traxxion cannot do the same.  If you call them and they don't know, ask to speak with someone higher up the food chain.  Many times entry level sales people or people who are experts on another type of bike will answer the phone at many companies.  So plan you the expense of the CCE kit and the labor at Traxxion to reassemble your forks.

[Admiral Akbar]

Max- 2013 Roag Glide. 1.0kg springs,Yellow springs, 2.5 turns, 4 holes, proper amount of fluid (spectro 20w) Brake dive, while still there to a small extent, is so much better than stock its remarkable. Coupled with the 944s out back this bike ride very nice. Its set up a bit stiff as its ridden pretty hard. Not traxk bike nice but much better than stock. A little real world feedbaxk for ya......

Thanks..

Max

[No Cents]

I've been doing a little bit of reading on the Progressive 944 shocks...it seems everything I've read on them that they well liked and made a huge difference in the ride. I see them listed on E-Bay for around $500.00 for a set.
Anyone ran a set of these thru the paces...and what did you think of them?

[HD/Wrench]

 You get what you pay for the 944 is a really basic shock.. On a hd its somewhat high tech , but rather old tech. It a great up grade over stock, then you ride a bike with Ohlins and you wonder why you bothered with the 944.  Even the cheap coil over Drag shock is better than stock. If you can find a deal buy em.,   

[No Cents]

Steve...I really like the Bitubo's that James has to offer.
I read that the 944's perform a lot better than the set up I currently have with the stock short HD air shocks and was just wondering if anyone has been running them.
At this point...I think even a stock 13" shock would be an improvement to my ride. I'm not in a hurry to buy anything...so I'll keep researching for all my options...then decide.
Bitubo's and Ohlins are on top of my list so far.

[HD/Wrench]

I have 944 and they are ok but then again I have installed the others and ridden them.  Not messed with the other.. not sure I would even try them The ohlins never fail  to impress the end user.

[No Cents]

what's your complaint on the 944's?

[frankieb]

Look into the JRI's aswell,according to howard the valveing is supposed to be better. They are cheaper then the ohlin's and if i am not mistaking i believe they are american made.

[1931jamesw]

We have Ohlins also. If you want to ride a bike with the Bitubo and a bike with the Ohlins, you'll wonder why you bothered with the Ohlins. Plus they cost a lot more. Call Dan at Traxxion Dynamics and ask him. They have two bikes (same model) with each for customers to ride. They sell a lot more Bitubos. I can sell you a set of Ohlins and make more money off of them but that's not the point. Not for me at least anyway.

[No Cents]

Just out of curiosity...I picked up a new set of take off 13" HD air shocks with 0 miles on them...off E-Bay today for $68.00 shipped to my door. I'm going to try them and see if it will take away the bottoming out issue for now.
I know they are not Bitubo's or Ohlins...but hopefully these will work for the little time we have left to ride here this season in Ohio...before the white stuff starts flying.
I will save my pennies up and buy a completely different suspension set up this winter.

[1931jamesw]

Ray, the longer travel will likely help if you are experiencing problems with bottoming out. That said, it will also be detrimental to center of gravity and in turn, the response of the bike for cornering and turning etc. An extreme example but one that I think displays my point is, Ever notice how big jacked up 4 wheel drive trucks dont exactly handle real well compared to a low center of gravity go kart? Extreme example I know but I noticed a difference in response on an 09 Street Glide just by going from the stock 17" wheel on the front to a 18" wheel form a 2010 model on the same bike (09 SG) and nothing else changed. The smaller sidewall on the 18" made a noticeable difference in the way the bike responded/handled. You have aftermarket wheels and larger ones than stock at that on your bike. Did you notice a difference when you replaced the stockers with the ones youre running now? I am planning to remove the 16" rear and 18" front from my 2012 RGC and go to 18" rear and 19" front. Im hoping this will be the best of both worlds. At a certain point, the point of diminishing returns shows up and the small sidewall that you get with the big wheels starts to negatively affect ride quality.