True-Track Stabilizer or Others?

[Admiral Akbar]

 

You are getting better in your descriptions... I appreciate that..

One thing to note.. On the rear section of the 09-up frame they stamped, one piece plate / sheet steel to form the lower part of the side triangle.. They may have widened the lower rear plate some in a attempt to compensate.. IMO the stamped plates allow for more flex than the pre 09 frames..

Max

[Homeward Bound]

Try and play nice, Max, and not have to pepper your posts with little cutting insults. I go further than most to illustrate my posts with photos etc and used very clear and specific terminology.

I think the side triangle also has what I guess is a forged piece embedded in it.

Therefore, the questions remain open ...

   a) Which are the best modification for the buck in order of effectiveness at reducing Bagger wobble?
   b) Does frame flexing have anything to do with the instability and does modifying it have any positive effect?

As an aside, I striped the Progressive Tour Link that was fitted by a previous owner to my bike and discovered the rose joint was worn out and rattle significantly, so it's worth checking them regularly. It probably only had a year's worth of partial use on it.

I sourced an alternative make of a higher quality rose joint to replace it complete with rubber boots to protect ... which none of the manufacturers seem to use. Crazy when you consider where it is positioned.

Examining the front engine mount, I found it was seized up (no protective boot again) and so will go on the list of replacements too.

Therefore, as ever, before considering upgrades ... make sure everything is working as it is supposed to first.

It won't cure the inherent and yet not clearly understood design fault ... but at least you won't be fighting against them and will make the best of whichever modification you choose.

[Admiral Akbar]

Try and play nice, Max, and not have to pepper your posts with little cutting insults.

I pay you a complemnt and you take it as an insult.. 

I go further than most to illustrate my posts with photos etc and used very clear and specific terminology.

Yeah but your references to what you are talking about were vague.. Which frame? Which bracket?? See you are getting better.

I think the side triangle also has what I guess is a forged piece embedded in it.

Not forged, cast.

Therefore, the questions remain open ...

   a) Which are the best modification for the buck in order of effectiveness at reducing Bagger wobble?

Has yet to be done IMO.. It takes some thinking outside the box..

  b) Does frame flexing have anything to do with the instability and does modifying it have any positive effect?

If it were a simple frame mod, wouldn't HD do it?   

As an aside, I striped the Progressive Tour Link that was fitted by a previous owner to my bike and discovered the rose joint was worn out and rattle significantly, so it's worth checking them regularly. It probably only had a year's worth of partial use on it.

I sourced an alternative make of a higher quality rose joint to replace it complete with rubber boots to protect ... which none of the manufacturers seem to use. Crazy when you consider where it is positioned.

The after market seems to ignore keeping these things from picking up dirt.. Joints wear quiclky..

Examining the front engine mount, I found it was seized up (no protective boot again) and so will go on the list of replacements too.

Therefore, as ever, before considering upgrades ... make sure everything is working as it is supposed to first.

It won't cure the inherent and yet not clearly understood design fault ... but at least you won't be fighting against them and will make the best of whichever modification you choose.

The Stock HD link has seals.. Sounds like after market,, Bit then I'm only familiar with TC bagger stuff.

Max

[Homeward Bound]

Won't Harley do it?

No. They are working down to a price mark and bound by the conservative mindset of their primary market.

Besides, we are talking about obsolete motorcycles they have no interest in any more.

[Admiral Akbar]

Won't Harley do it?

No. They are working down to a price mark and bound by the conservative mindset of their primary market.

Besides, we are talking about obsolete motorcycles they have no interest in any more.

I guess you missed my point.. Ok  This time I didn't supply enough info.. I'm not writing about fixing older bike.. Make the changes to a new bike.. Make the handling appear better and the masses will crowd to the show rooms.. Just like they did in 2009..

Max

Add:

And HD makes a ton of money off the more expensive rear tire.. 

Max

[Homeward Bound]

The Stock HD link has seals.. Sounds like after market,, Bit then I'm only familiar with TC bagger stuff.

I don't know what you mean by "seal". I'm talking about a boot, which they don't have.

There are also better quality rose joint rod ends out there in the world. Left unexposed and unmaintained, in all weathers, by previous owners, mine seized solid which cannot help.

Both the original poster and I are talking about fixing older frames/bikes, not theorising new ones.


I don't know which steel H-D used and uses yet but I'd read it is a (low) mild grade steel. Using higher grade, lighter stronger steel would be better but certain cost more ... so, perhaps, we're all victims of the accounting department and uninformed/under-demanding mass market again. It is was a toss up between spending $400 on a sound system, or $400 extra on a better frame, I know which I would take, the mass market probably would not.

Frame development, I think, has been one of Harley's weak points if they don't just not work well, then they awkward, like the Buells.


• Are we anywhere closer to solution for Bagger wobbles and which off the best bang for the bucks?

There is also the front end to consider ... the lack of clamping on the triple tree yokes.

A rose joint/rod end protective rubber boot.

[attach=0]

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[bobrk1]

how is the tru track compared to bitchin bagger, do they install easy and do they both mount in the frame I hit the bar across the rear of the frame once in road construction and don't want anything under the frame

[Admiral Akbar]

• Are we anywhere closer to solution for Bagger wobbles and which off the best bang for the bucks?

Yup..

Max

[HighLiner]

So I was messing with my '09 tonight and noticed with the rear shocks unbolted the swingarm only moves about an inch more.  Is this normal?

[calif phil]

• Are we anywhere closer to solution for Bagger wobbles and which off the best bang for the bucks?

Yup..

Max

Please let me know as I need to fix my pos sometime.   

[Homeward Bound]

So I was messing with my '09 tonight and noticed with the rear shocks unbolted the swingarm only moves about an inch more.  Is this normal?

Are you measuring that at the end of swing arm?

If so, no, something is very wrong. Perhaps the spindle is too tight/bent/seized up? 

[HighLiner]

So I was messing with my '09 tonight and noticed with the rear shocks unbolted the swingarm only moves about an inch more.  Is this normal?k

Are you measuring that at the end of swing arm?

If so, no, something is very wrong. Perhaps the spindle is too tight/bent/seized up?

Yes, measured at the end of the swing arm.  FYI, this is on a '09 with only 30k on it!

[Admiral Akbar]

So I was messing with my '09 tonight and noticed with the rear shocks unbolted the swingarm only moves about an inch more.  Is this normal?k

Are you measuring that at the end of swing arm?

If so, no, something is very wrong. Perhaps the spindle is too tight/bent/seized up?

Yes, measured at the end of the swing arm.  FYI, this is on a '09 with only 30k on it!

Is the free movement up from the stock shock position or down? 
Sure the shock are out of the way when moving up.. Does it feel like it is hitting something or does it get tight?  Will the swing arm stick in position if you jam it upwards?

Max

[HighLiner]

I'll do some more investigating tonight and report back.

[HighLiner]

Ok, so I looked around a little more.  I have almost 4" of total travel all of which is fairly smooth.  There is only 7/8" past where the shocks would bottom out.  Normal?

[Admiral Akbar]

Ok, so I looked around a little more.  I have almost 4" of total travel all of which is fairly smooth.  There is only 7/8" past where the shocks would bottom out.  Normal?

Most likely..  If the smooth range of travel extends beyond what the shock can handle you should be golden.. There is probably some guard or bracket in the way going beyond that depends on the bike.. Belt guard may hit going down on a bagger or Dyna.. Going up, could be hitting the frame someplace..

Max

[HighLiner]

Thanks, now to address the side to side movement that I can get with just my hands.  I'd hate to see how much I can get with a pry bar like you did.

[Admiral Akbar]

Thanks, now to address the side to side movement that I can get with just my hands.  I'd hate to see how much I can get with a pry bar like you did.

Let us know what you find.. Miles on the bike? 

Max

[HighLiner]

Just 30,000 miles

[Admiral Akbar]

   a) Which are the best modification for the buck in order of effectiveness at reducing Bagger wobble?
   b) Does frame flexing have anything to do with the instability and does modifying it have any positive effect?

a. TBD 

b. Absolutely.. Frame mods are not needed..

Max

[build it]

   a) Which are the best modification for the buck in order of effectiveness at reducing Bagger wobble?
   b) Does frame flexing have anything to do with the instability and does modifying it have any positive effect?

a. TBD 

b. Absolutely.. Frame mods are not needed..

Max

Will this apply to my dyna as well? I've been waiting for your response to this problem for a while.

[Admiral Akbar]

Will this apply to my dyna as well? I've been waiting for your response to this problem for a while.

Unfortunately not.. The dyna issue is the rear mount.. The stabilizing links that some sell cannot handle the load.. They flex..

Baggers / FXRs are different animals.. The rear is suspended between two rubber donut that are pushing outwards on the frame.  They are compressed between the frame. As soon as there is a lateral load placed on the rear part of the drive train, one side of the frame flexes and wobble ensures.. The frame sides need to be tied together..

Max

[build it]

Will this apply to my dyna as well? I've been waiting for your response to this problem for a while.

Unfortunately not.. The dyna issue is the rear mount.. The stabilizing links that some sell cannot handle the load.. They flex..

Baggers / FXRs are different animals.. The rear is suspended between two rubber donut that are pushing outwards on the frame.  They are compressed between the frame. As soon as there is a lateral load placed on the rear part of the drive train, one side of the frame flexes and wobble ensures.. The frame sides need to be tied together..

Max

I know I'm asking a lot, but please revisit this when you have time. Okay, enough thread drift, sorry OP

[Admiral Akbar]

I know I'm asking a lot, but please revisit this when you have time. Okay, enough thread drift, sorry OP

Custom Cycle Engineering was had a prototype rear motor mount that looked real interesting. They had a front on too but IMO the front is fine as long as a link is added.. The application was for guys that were drag racing.. The guy said that it was designed to heavier to keep the rear mount from tearing on hard launches, but it looks as tho it could be set up to control lateral forces real easy. Might be worth giving them a call..

BTW
I think it's funny that the Vibra Technics chose to ignore the rear mount without giving a real reason.. IMO the rear mount it the more critical one and the current stabilizing brackets from Sputhe and others are not stiff enough..

Max