Lets play WHERE IS THE LEAK (INNER PRIMARY PULLED)

[blackhillsken]

Off topic: Liked the article in Thunder Press, Ken.

Off topic reply............. Thanks Deye76

[blackhillsken]

Thanks! I have my service manual at work and am fixing to study on it. Can those bearings be changed out from primary side of tranny?

Gotta gut the trans for those bearings.  Mainshaft needs to be out.  One good thing if you do pull the gearset.........it'll be easier to replace the fifth gear seal.  They can be difficult, especially if they've been pushed deeper by the walking race.

[blackhillsken]

OK gentleman I have never been one to half a$$ things on my bike an not starting now. I have the following parts all ready on hand in my shop: 1147B- O ring for front of inner primary/ 12052A- Oil seal inner primary clutch/ 12066A- Jack shaft oil seal/ 9135- Inner primary bearing clutch/ and of course new locking tabs, primary gasket, tower gaskets and chain inspection gasket. As you can see from pick I scored the tools to remove tranny sprocket from the ATV wrench friend of mine down the road. He has a Springer and works on his own ride and does some work for money on HD's but as he says "Drop a wrench on a 10 year old 4 wheeler and no one says anything. Do that on a Harley and see what happens"
What else do I need to order? 8996A-Mainshaft left side ball bearing/ 11165-Quad seal ball bearing/ 12067B-Mainshaft left side oil seal/ 33344-94 Sprocket spacer/ 12045-Shifter oil seal. I'm assuming the race that walked is: 34091-85A- The inner race bearing that I'll need as well as 12035B-Mainshaft 5th gear oil seal. I live about 2 hrs from nearest HD parts so I end up ordering everything so if I can do it all at once it will save time and money. Also what tools do I have to have to do this? I have done a couple jack shaft seals so I know you don't have to have that tool. I used heat and cold for cam bearings and plate but bought the correct tools for bearings in the case as well as oil pump alignment pins so you get the idea. I have never been deeper on this side than I am now and as I said I'm just a shade tree so any and all advice or tips no matter how stupid to you is GOLD to me and thinks one and all so far!!

You won't need the special tool for pulling the "walked" inner race from the mainshaft,  since the tool will not be able to get behind the race (it's up against 5th gear instead of .100" away like it should be). There are various ways of dealing with it.  We usually weld two 3/8" threaded rods to the race & use a generic puller (steering wheel puller for us).  However, that same special puller tool will also install the new race on the mainshaft.
Some guys grind a slot in the old race & split it, but that's tricky.  Don't want to cut into the mainshaft or fifth gear.

[Eglider05]

Some guys grind a slot in the old race & split it, but that's tricky.  Don't want to cut into the mainshaft or fifth gear.

I don't even bother with the puller anymore. This works pretty good, you just need to be careful.

[mkd]

eglide 05 has the right idea to remove the race! if your right handed go from outer left side of race to inner right side at about a 45 degree angle.  i slide an old hose clamp over the race all the way to the back so it guards the front of the gear in case you slip with the dremel. don't  go too deep and don't worry about getting all the way to the back. the race is loaded under tension and the metal is hardened and brittle. if you get a cold chisel so the force is applied to the sides of the groove you cut it will crack fairly easy. start light with the hammer! the one i did took one smack and it spun right off!

[JLockhart29]

OK so I got the list i did above for the additional parts I will need pulse throw in the S&S race for good measure. Any one have part number for that one? Got my handy dandy tranny sprocket nut tool and sprocket lock. Not in a hurry so will cut the old race off since its slipped anyway. What other special tools do I need? The MAINSHAFT SEAL INSTALLER  from George is $56.25 and in stock but says it needs handle from MAIN DRIVE GEAR SEAL INSTALLER which is conveniently out of stock. What about setting that race? Need tool for that? What am I missing? Got plenty of sockets and a hammer!!

[FSG]

The S&S Race will only go on one way.  It can be pressed on using washers, a length of PVC and the clutch hub nut.

[JLockhart29]

The S&S Race will only go on one way.  It can be pressed on using washers, a length of PVC and the clutch hub nut.

Well that seems pretty idiot proof!

[FSG]

Well that seems pretty idiot proof!

don't you believe it      if you try to press it on too far it will split as one current member found out.

[JLockhart29]

Well that seems pretty idiot proof!

don't you believe it      if you try to press it on too far it will split as one current member found out.

Hence why the old one is "easy" to remove!

[mkd]

j lockhardt29!   i used a piece of white plastic water  pipe to install the "wedding band seal" between the inner and outer shaft. don't remember if it was a coupling or a piece of just the pipe. if i remember right the needle bearings case under the seal was about 1/8" deeper than the case seal. the dimension they want you to recess the seal is not that critical. just so the front of the seal is recessed below the end of the shaft.  the seal is 1/4" deep so you have an 1/8" to play with before the seal is tight to the bearing cage.

[JLockhart29]

OK I just got all my parts ordered down threw left side mainshaft ball bearing (8996A). I am correct that this is as far as I can go replacing bearings and seals from the primary side correct? Those should be in middle of the week. The S&S race will probably be in hopefully by the end of next week and not week after next! Will go ahead and pull the sprocket and swing arm to replace the belt and do some much needed clean up in those hard to reach places! What about those specialized tools for the seals and bearings? Which do I really need and where do I get them since George's handle is out of stock for the Mainshaft seal installer? Again thanks for all the helpfull tricks and tweeks to do this!

[Mirrmu]

Hi,
Try heartland on ebay or web, got a few tool off them
Thanks
Mirrmu

[blackhillsken]

OK I just got all my parts ordered down threw left side mainshaft ball bearing (8996A). I am correct that this is as far as I can go replacing bearings and seals from the primary side correct? Those should be in middle of the week. The S&S race will probably be in hopefully by the end of next week and not week after next! Will go ahead and pull the sprocket and swing arm to replace the belt and do some much needed clean up in those hard to reach places! What about those specialized tools for the seals and bearings? Which do I really need and where do I get them since George's handle is out of stock for the Mainshaft seal installer? Again thanks for all the helpfull tricks and tweeks to do this!

Re: 8996A bearing......... Again, you must gut the trans to change that bearing as fifth gear is pressed into the inner race.

[Eglider05]

Any movement in the main shaft?

Rick

[JLockhart29]

Any movement in the main shaft?

Rick

Haven't got that far yet. Been working 12's starting at 4am last 4 days and basically been crashing when I get home. Worked off this afternoon and pulled sprocket nut. Had my official special tools, had all my adapters for my 3/4" one foot breaker bar, had scoped out a 8 foot piece of 2 inch oil field pipe for cheater pipe. I was ready. Put the official socket and pilot on with the official locking tool and one foot breaker bar. Being 48 years old I was doubting my ability to budge it. lined everything up, bowed up all my waning strength and.......damn near killed myself falling over when the nut gave at about 10 lbs of torque!   I guess this means the rest will be a disaster! Anyway stopped there and started drinking a few beer. Will get back to it tomorrow. Will leave that as it is till I drop the swing arm. I looked at old post and seems I can pull the tranny inners as is. This is a FXST and has that cursed oil tank. Can this be done with out pulling the oil tank? Have done it 3 times. Once to powder coat it and twice for starter and had just about rather take a cold water enema as do it again anytime soon!! 

[djl]

The S&S Race will only go on one way.  It can be pressed on using washers, a length of PVC and the clutch hub nut.

Well that seems pretty idiot proof!

Not really. The S&S instructions will tell you to push the race on until you hit 45# or torque, or maybe it is 35# . Whatever the torque spec is, the race will split before that much torque registers.  You will feel the resistance as the taper comes into play; proceed with caution at that point.  Once you get the race within +/- .125" of the main shaft/5th gear seal, call it good and stop.   Tape the splines of the main shaft; if you slip or let the inner primary seal contact the splines, you will be back in replacing that seal. Install the primary and secure with a couple of the back bolts.  Spin the wheel, pull the primary and you can see where the seal lip contacts the inner race.  Maybe anal but I want to see the contact before I button it up.

I learned the hard way; split two S&S races before I got the hang of it.

[JLockhart29]

OK this thing has gotten out of had. Started out with a couple oil seals to replace and now I'm getting ready to snatch the tranny guts. As you can see from pic I cut race to split it off and chunk on edge broke off. No way to get a puller behind it after it walked. Put a propane torch to it for a few and tried to pull it with vice grips but much to tight. Just afraid to grind any deeper and turn that mainshaft to a trot line weight!! Been half a mind based on advice hear to pull the guts out since I'm in this deep anyway and replace mainshaft bearing and everything else in there. This finished making up my mind. Any tips on pulling it the rest of the way down besides what is in the book? Big question is can I do it on a Softail with out pulling that #$%%@ oil tank? Books says pull it of course. Thanks and off to drain the fluid in the tranny.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Eglider05]

Try another cut 180 degrees from the first one.

Rick

[mkd]

looks like you didn't go quite deep enough and you hit it near the outside edge.  start at the front of the same groove where you can see the inner shaft. once your satisfied with the depth on the front (approx 3/4 way through) work the same depth towards the back. you don't have to get the groove that close to the back edge of the race! once you have the depth a bit more place the cold chisel in the center of what you have left of the groove when you try to crack  the race. make sure the chisel taper is resting on the sides of the groove you cut and the point is not resting on the bottom. it will crack real easy if you take your time and do the steps correctly. 

[FSG]

and put some tape then a hose clamp over the thread on the output gear, to protect it against a slip with the dremel

[blackhillsken]

Wish I had better news for you, but (if you do pull the gears) that race has to come off before you can pull the gearset out anyway.

[Ajayrk]

If you are using a Dremel with a cut off wheel, switch to a carbide burr and work down the groove.  It will be easier to control and allow you to get closer to the shoulder.  Just follow the groove you have started.

[JLockhart29]

Fixing to start back on it now and as was mentioned its got to come off regardless. What about that oil tank of Softail? Does it have to come off to pull the tranny gears? Pretty much made up my mind to do it since I'm this far in.

[djl]

Have pulled gear sets from several FLs but never a softail.  I looked at my Deuce last night and I don't see how you get the gear set out without removing the oil tank but never done it so I could be wrong.