Power Vision Auto Tune Basic

[Karl H.]

The later lambda cals and cals for HDLAN bikes do not have bias tables like the earlier cals.  With PV you CAN change the range that the closed loop will operate but I have found that the 14.1-15.2 range is its more accurate range.

Just for visualisation a 2013 stock map (Softail TC103 HDI) where ovals indicate closed loop operation (14.3-14.7):

[hrdtail78]

Doesn't really skew the sensors response, but more it changes the voltage that the ECM switches from a lean mode to a rich mode.  With AFR cals this is done in another table.  Closed loop bias tables.  In the lambda cals it is done directly in the AFR tables, but the direct lambda value that is put into there is still changed into a voltage for the ECM's sake.

IMO it is important to map the VE tables were CL is going to used with stock sensors.  Mapping with WB and then NB or whatever order is going to produce different VE's.  A lot of factors can cause this.  Simple sensor placement to how the sensors themselves are different in their accuracy.  It's no secrete that the NB's are better in the 14.3-14.6 range.  Mapping with something else and then turning on the CL feature is only going to have the NB's pull it there anyway.  The ECM is going to win the fight.

The vision only lets you target 13 across the board for WB tuning.  Changing the target AFR 1.5 after mapped and hoping the math is going to work out isn't the best tuning strategy.  It is easy enough to test and compare the tables.  Or map with WB and turn on CL and watch integrators.

[Mirrmu]

Hi,

I get from last post hardtail78 that you may be best to map with stock sensors NB say upto 3000rpm, cruising area, get VE data, change your map

Then use WB results for 3500rpm up, get VE data, change your map

Make sure AFR table relates to what you have tuned above with NB and WB
Thanks

[hrdtail78]

Or you could map as much area as you can with both sensors and cut and paste to achieve your final VE tables.

Collecting open and closed loop data at the same time..... Different post.

[Durwood]

This may be true with other tuners, but not with Power vision you can make your closed loop pretty much where ever you want by changing the CL parameters on your cal in Winpv.

Uh, no.

A 14.6 in the table tells the Delphi ECM to run closed loop. The Powervision doesn't change that.

When you change the closed loop bias, you skew the sensor's response. In other words, it may now start signalling Stoic when it's actually at some other place. But you still need a 14.6 in the table cell to run closed loop. That's how the Delphi ECM works.

The later lambda cals and cals for HDLAN bikes do not have bias tables like the earlier cals.  With PV you CAN change the range that the closed loop will operate but I have found that the 14.1-15.2 range is its more accurate range.

This is what I found as well, guys, you just have to try it , set up one of the 4 window screens with AFR1, AFR2, CLI1 CLI2, from this screen you will be able to see it in action.

Pick an afr range of .6, Target the middle of that range in the area of the afr table you want in closed loop.

For accuracy sake I went back and looked at my E85 cal and the range I used was actually 13.7-14.3, fwiw.

Just stating what I discovered while testing.

Merry Christmas Everyone!!

Daren

[rodrocket]

Some cool new features with power vision pro tune and target tune coming in the future

Care to elaborate a little further

will it be a new unit or an update to the current one

regards
Rod

[joe_lyons]

I will know much more at the vtwin expo when they talk more about it. 

[sandrooney]

Hope it doesn't matter which I tune with first. I have already pretty much got it tuned with the WB . I guess I could start over.
Thanks Josh

[Durwood]

Hope it doesn't matter which I tune with first. I have already pretty much got it tuned with the WB . I guess I could start over.
Thanks Josh

No Josh, you are on the right track.

[Durwood]

Winpv>contents>pro autotune

[sandrooney]

Thanks Durwood. So I can tune with basic after pro ?

[Durwood]

Thanks Durwood. So I can tune with basic after pro ?

If you have pro, you don't need to use basic, once you are finished tuning, simply remove the WB sensors and the AT module for future use.

[joe_lyons]

Different strokes for different folks.

[hrdtail78]

Hope it doesn't matter which I tune with first. I have already pretty much got it tuned with the WB . I guess I could start over.
Thanks Josh

Why start over?  You can auto tune a small section.  It isn't all or nothing.

[2006FXDCI]

Thats what i was thinking . Couldnt you remove the WB and use auto tune basic to dial in only the CL cells with the stock NB that will be used all the time . Thats how I did my friends 09 road king .

[Durwood]

Thats what i was thinking . Couldnt you remove the WB and use auto tune basic to dial in only the CL cells with the stock NB that will be used all the time . Thats how I did my friends 09 road king .

Josh, you can do that and leave the widebands in if you want, and just choose basic for your tuning option, then back up the NB data with the widebands once you complete the area you wish to sample.

Then remove the module and wb sensors.

As Joe said different strokes, there's more than one way to get there, the main thing in the end is to have a good running bike and happy customer.

Daren

[2006FXDCI]

 

[hrdtail78]

You can set up the cal to collect closed loop data and generate a new cal.  This is not with auto tune.  This is more so you can target a specific CLB or lambda value and the timing you want.  I am sure auto tune or smart tune will get you close enough.  Why not a final customized auto tune run for those that do choose to run in CL?   I really believe this helps the transitions from CL to OL as well.  Back to one cell effects the other strategy of tuning.

Not really concerned with right or wrong.   My way is flexible.  It's based on my 7-8 years doing it and keeping a good net work with people that do it daily as well.

[sandrooney]

Thanks, Looks like there are options.  This PV is really cool. I am doing the same mods to my wife's bike so I will purchase the license and flash my tune to hers. Should start out pretty close.
Thanks again,
Kevin