Teardown surprise (snapped head bolt)

[x1rider]

On my break in ride I remember hearing a loud snap at the front, I thought a rock had gone and rattled inside my front fender.  While doing my teardown to investigate and oil leak, I found this.


One of the head bolts has snapped.  Now the other part is still screwed on the stud and I can't remove the cylinder.  Any tricks or tips on how to remove the cylinder?

For replacement (I'll change both the studs and headbolts) I was looking at these:
http://www.feulingparts.com/sku/3001

Any other/better suggestions for replacement studs/head bolts?

Thanks in advance.

[rageglide]

Oh man.. Never seen that before.  Can you lift the cylinder at all?  I think I'd just go back in the house and pour myself three fingers of Jack and leave the bottle near by...

[crewchief25H]

Guess now you found the cause of your leak. I just bought all new head bolts from Harley 38.00 for all 8

[Billy]

That's ugly. I'd start with some PB Blaster down the hole and try to move it up and down, if you can get it moving keep spraying it and wiggling it, if you can get it above the dowel, try twisting it as well. Keep it wet. Good luck.

[lilchief]

Wow. Can you lift the cylinder high enough to get something in there to cut the stud off leaving enough to get ahold of and unscrew the cut stud?  Covering all openings up nice & tight of course.

Lil Chief

[wholehog]

That's ugly. I'd start with some PB Blaster down the hole and try to move it up and down, if you can get it moving keep spraying it and wiggling it, if you can get it above the dowel, try twisting it as well. Keep it wet. Good luck.

soak it with PB Blaster...will the broken bolt engage the stuck sleeve while turning it CCW to loosen it?

[x1rider]

The cylinder doesn't lift enough to cut the stud.  The weird thing is I screwed the other bolt in and I can wiggle the stud inside the cylinder hole (it's not stuck, I have lateral movement), but I can't lift the cylinder.  It also looks like the affected stud sits a little higher than the other ones (maybe it stretched). 
Anyway I'm considering trying to screw the headbolt on with red loctite and hope that it will bond strongly enough to be able to unscrew the stud with the headbolt.  If not I'm considering firing up the TIG and welding a nut on top of the stud, not sure if it's a good idea though.

[FSG]

green loctite not red

post a pic so we can see what your looking at

[WideWildGlide]

alot people use the SE head studs i think was $80 for a set,other that idk how help you fix your current problem, what did you torque the bolt too?

[prodrag1320]

get a pic of the stud/broke piece of the headbolt (FSG beat me to it!!)

[prodrag1320]

alot people use the SE head studs i think was $80 for a set,other that idk how help you fix your current problem, what did you torque the bolt too?

nothing wrong with the stock studs,if it was over torqued,it would have pulled the threads before breaking the head bolt(S&S studs are right around 40.00)

[rbabos]

The cylinder doesn't lift enough to cut the stud.  The weird thing is I screwed the other bolt in and I can wiggle the stud inside the cylinder hole (it's not stuck, I have lateral movement), but I can't lift the cylinder.  It also looks like the affected stud sits a little higher than the other ones (maybe it stretched). 
Anyway I'm considering trying to screw the headbolt on with red loctite and hope that it will bond strongly enough to be able to unscrew the stud with the headbolt.  If not I'm considering firing up the TIG and welding a nut on top of the stud, not sure if it's a good idea though.

If you can get the stud clean enough and get at least 6-7 thread connnection I'd be using Loctite 680 or equivilent. I swear that "Potty mouth" grabs more then red does. If you get it squeaky clean, 100% sure it will unscrew the stud. Then you will need to deal with removing the head bolt from stud. Heat is your friend.
Ron

[prodrag1320]

if you go that route,get some Loctite primer,spay it on,wait about 5 minutes and then go with the loctite

[x1rider]

I followed the Cometic instructions when I torqued the headbolts.  There is a pic of the broken bolt beside a good one in my first post.  Here is a pic of the top of cylinder, video of me moving the stud around with a headbolt coming soon.

[x1rider]

I'll probably try the loctite.
Here is a video to show that the stud is not frozen in the hole, I just don't understand why I can't pull the cylinder up.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8cyfkzi7ejtdmdu/IMG_0672.MOV

[prodrag1320]

dosnt look like welding is going to be an option from what the pic shows.(im not getting any video though) looks like S&S cylinders,did you check if the head bolts were too long?

[x1rider]

dosnt look like welding is going to be an option from what the pic shows.(im not getting any video though) looks like S&S cylinders,did you check if the head bolts were too long?

They're Axtell cylinders, I've used that setup for 4 years and it's the first time this is an issue.  I've reused those headbolts a few times though, maybe I should have replaced them before.

[rageglide]

Because it sounds as if the stud is loose already I would say the threads are shattered.

I would try and use a socket and washers stacked such that when the head bolt has two or three threads engaged the head bolt is making contact to the socket washer stack... Then start tightening it and pull the stud.  If it bottoms on the remaining piece of the head bolt unscrew it and add another couple washers and keep doing it until the stud is freed.

Another twist on that idea would be get a threaded collar and a bolt of adequate length that you could thread a nut on it and use it to do the pulling.  Effectively extending the cylinder stud and using the nut to pull the stud.

Every time I've had a stud fail I've used the head bolt to do just what I feebly described.  The stud will come out with the aluminum threads and you can use a TimeSert or Helicoil to fix the threads.

[FSG]

maybe the cylinder is stuck / glued at the base enough making it hard to lift

[x1rider]

Here is the video again


I can move the cylinder around horizontally, just not vertically.  I'll try the loctite way, then consider pulling the stud if it doesn't work.

[Admiral Akbar]

Can you spin the broken part out.. Say use a set of right angle snap ring pliers.. If the top surface is rough so you might get enough traction to spin it out... If not you might need to drill or prick punch 2 detents 180 apart to get some.. Can't see how far below the surface it is but I've had luck using a 1/8 inch pin punch with the tip sharpened to a point to get out broken bolts that snapped. Dry driving the remaining part counterclockwise. Sometimes you get lucky.

Max

[rageglide]

It will be a miracle if the case threads aren't toast.  Pulling the stud now makes the repair somewhat easier because the hole will be straight and fairly clean.  The fragments stay mostly self contained like a heli-coil in the threads of the stud.

[biggzed]

Can you drill a hole in the top of the stud and use one of those screw extractors?

Zach

[Admiral Akbar]

It will be a miracle if the case threads aren't toast.  Pulling the stud now makes the repair somewhat easier because the hole will be straight and fairly clean.  The fragments stay mostly self contained like a heli-coil in the threads of the stud.

Why?  case threads are at the other end of the stud..

Max

[mrmike]

Left handed drill bit followed by an easy out if it doesn't come while your drilling it?


Mike