VOES AND STARTING ISSUES

[TheSwede]

Hi again,, english is my second language,,
I mean use the ink marker on the flywheel,,
in my case i could see the 35 degree dot more clearly
reinforced with the black marker

Best Regards
TheSwede

[todsho]

Well, I rode the bike to work. It seemed to run well. Slight ping around 2800 rmp under load, much better than before though. Ran between 68 and 72 mph the whole 35 mls. Got off the freeway to the ramp and bike idled nice, oil pressure at 20 psi at idle. Bike did not seem hot and oil temp about 175. Shut it off when I got here, let it sit for about 10min, Then it fired rite up again with no real issue. Still needs a lil tweaking but am happy with the progress so far. Before, my oil pressure would drop to 0 by the time I got here. When everything else checked out ok, I came to conclusion that the bike was running hotter than it should be which is how I got into this timing mess! 

[kristian]

BTW my Evo's have always run best with the OEM timing plate just shy of the fully counter clockwise position (lots of advance), I could always see just about .010" of the slot visible below the standoff.

fully counter clockwise is fully retarded, is it not?

[todsho]

BTW my Evo's have always run best with the OEM timing plate just shy of the fully counter clockwise position (lots of advance), I could always see just about .010" of the slot visible below the standoff.

fully counter clockwise is fully retarded, is it not?

On my bike, when the timing is set at fact. spec, you can barely see any space, if any, above the left side timing plate stud and the plate itself. So if I can see a space, the bike would be fairly advanced beyond the factory 35 deg.  I think that's what Rageglide meant by "lots of advance". But you are correct that fully counterclockwise is the "retarded" setting.

[rageglide]

BTW my Evo's have always run best with the OEM timing plate just shy of the fully counter clockwise position (lots of advance), I could always see just about .010" of the slot visible below the standoff.

fully counter clockwise is fully retarded, is it not?

Jeez I screwed that up.. thanks for catching that Kristian.   I actually had written it correctly, then went back and swapped them... 

Correct way to Advance is rotating the plate the same direction as the flywheel because the cam is spinning backwards.  Which always sounds backwards in my mind, yet when I'm sitting in front of the bike it looks perfectly right.

[rageglide]

Hi again,, english is my second language,,
I mean use the ink marker on the flywheel,,
in my case i could see the 35 degree dot more clearly
reinforced with the black marker

Best Regards
TheSwede

 

What I was trying to say (poorly in my native language... ) is that I didn't find the black marker to work well for me.  My flywheels are pretty dark colored.   Until I learned to touch the flywheels with the timing plug I could never see the marks...

[JamesButler]

another comment about the dyna2000 - becuase it's not using the VOES like the stock ignition the idle will be more "traditional" vs the higher smooth idle you get when running the stock ignition and VOES.  A cam will roughen up the idle too.    Too low an idle for the cam can show up as a stumble off idle.  A cam and lower idle speed causes the engine to pull less vacuum at idle and wants a little more fuel to deal with the throttle plate change.

I'd just retime the bike right . Use the manual . Bring the bike up to 2200rpm and dial it in so the TDC mark is centered in the hole . Lock it down . Being that you still have a 80in I'd put a stock VOES in and readjust your carb . I really don't think it's the VOES buy the timing and not proper tuned carb . Just my opinion .

You both really help to clear up the uncertainty with these two posts and are making a lot of sense, here -- rageglide with the specifics about the cam and the Dynatek ignition effects on idle, and ironheadmike with the "keep-it-simple-stupid"    or "back-to-basics" approach. 

It looks like there could be dual problem; slightly too much ignition-advance and the carb not quite being tuned properly.  It would also seem  that they go hand-in-hand and are easily corrected. 

I didn't think I needed to dynamic-time the motor b/c the Dynatek instructions say it is unnecessary, as the motor should run very close to the static-timing setting.  But the dynamic timing would move the current ignition-advance setting closer back to the static-timing mark, which in turn would require the carb idle-speed screw to be turned outward, in order to compensate for the resulting slower idle. 

In addition, the Dynatek 2000 ignition and bolt-in cam are combining to also slow the idle-speed compared to stock.  Therefore, it may be necessary to turn out the idle-speed screw considerably more than expected.  Likewise, the idle-mixture screw may also require a slightly more outward adjustment (but not sure about that one).

Well, I rode the bike to work. It seemed to run well. Slight ping around 2800 rmp under load, much better than before though...

If all else is under control, then a remedy for the ping under load at 2,800 rpm for for the CV-40 is to swap in the NOKK jet needle.  Not sure if there is a similar remedy for the Super E, but maybe you somehow need to enrich the AFR at that common pinging point. 

[todsho]

James, I have been thinking about trying to rejet the carb to see if that would help. I am already running a .76 main so I don't know if it would hurt or help it. I might just try it though..easy to do and easy to switch back.

[kristian]

BTW my Evo's have always run best with the OEM timing plate just shy of the fully counter clockwise position (lots of advance), I could always see just about .010" of the slot visible below the standoff.

fully counter clockwise is fully retarded, is it not?

Jeez I screwed that up.. thanks for catching that Kristian.   I actually had written it correctly, then went back and swapped them... 

Correct way to Advance is rotating the plate the same direction as the flywheel because the cam is spinning backwards.  Which always sounds backwards in my mind, yet when I'm sitting in front of the bike it looks perfectly right.

i know what you meant, i do the same thing.