Decel enleanment???

[Grasmo]

After getting things sorted out thanks to Steve ....I did about a 200 mile data run yesterday and of course blended the tune in V-tune.....now,when you chop the throttle to come to a stop.....while the bike is compression braking from say 3500 t0 904.......it seems like someone hit the kill switch.....until it reaches 904 rpm and then it comes back to life.....at any given instant while decelerating though, if you bring the throttle off closed position it immediately is alive....I can't tell if it is spark cutting off or fuel.....the sound is exactly if you hit the kill switch.....the only changes that were made that I am aware of was the VE that v-tune suggested......I will go out and take a looksee and see what the spark was doing in those events....just weird how a V-Tune could make a change at idle.....anybody got an idea??   bike runs really good everywhere else.....

[rbabos]

After getting things sorted out thanks to Steve ....I did about a 200 mile data run yesterday and of course blended the tune in V-tune.....now,when you chop the throttle to come to a stop.....while the bike is compression braking from say 3500 t0 904.......it seems like someone hit the kill switch.....until it reaches 904 rpm and then it comes back to life.....at any given instant while decelerating though, if you bring the throttle off closed position it immediately is alive....I can't tell if it is spark cutting off or fuel.....the sound is exactly if you hit the kill switch.....the only changes that were made that I am aware of was the VE that v-tune suggested......I will go out and take a looksee and see what the spark was doing in those events....just weird how a V-Tune could make a change at idle.....anybody got an idea??   bike runs really good everywhere else.....

Could be kpa/ve related to decel area. Look at the ve tables. Really high in the first column? If you vtuned it with aggressive decels it could be throwing too much fuel at it in this area. Engine could be choking out from fuel basically. As soon as you move the throttle kpa comes up and pulls fuel from leaner area of the map. Just a hunch. Log injector activity to see what they are doing.
Ron

[hrdtail78]

......it seems like someone hit the kill switch.....until it reaches 904 rpm and then it comes back to life.....at any given instant while decelerating though, if you bring the throttle off closed position it immediately is alive....

...and the problem is?  On a long decal some calibrations turn injectors off.

[strokerjlk]

The injectors don't shut off at 3500
If you dump to much fuel in decel it acts just as you say .
Like a on/off switch .
Increase the decel numbers in the temp range you notice the on/ off feeling .
This will lean it out and give you back your rumble .
Lean it out to far and it will pop .

[Grasmo]

Man...thanks......I wonder if I went too far with closed loop bias?  661

[rbabos]

Man...thanks......I wonder if I went too far with closed loop bias?  661

deleted.

[joe_lyons]

Can you post your current calibration

[Slyde]

Isn't what he is seeing the decel fuel cut-off?

[joe_lyons]

Decel enleanment is only used when there is a delta change in throttle position going from higher to lower.  As soon as the throttle is done moving decel enleanment is done.  If you are having the hard engine break feeling then you may have either too much fuel or too much timing.  If you did not have this issue before you started tuning then you can just set it back the way that it was before.  I always look at the 40 kpa column and then look for the trend going down to the 15 kpa column.  Whats your timing at low kpa columns?  Also I don't believe in closed loop at decel kpa areas.

[rbabos]

Like I said, view the O2 activity during decels at closed throttle.
Ron

[strokerjlk]

Like I said, view the O2 activity during decels at closed throttle.
Ron

Probably pig rich and not even sampling correct in decel now.

[hrdtail78]

It's a little later in the thread, but year, model, and mods to it would be helpful.  I was riding a 2014 the other day and it was dead quiet at cruise.

[BUBBIE]

 

I find my 09 FLHR on de-cel :

HD (brain) shuts off the fuel on de-cel, even using my SE pro tuner it does it.... Then back on at that lower RPM like the OP described. That has always worked this way on my bike.

HD's way for no popping on de-cel

signed....BUBBIE

[rbabos]

Like I said, view the O2 activity during decels at closed throttle.
Ron

Probably pig rich and not even sampling correct in decel now.

Wouldn't the mv shoot into the 2500 range or more being cooled with fuel? Just theorizing.
Ron

[hrdtail78]

You have a better chance tracking your pw.  MV is only indicated.  I know you understand indicated vs actual.

[Grasmo]

Being pig rich might be what is going on......i had recently moved my Closed Loop bias....to 661 across the board.....It was probably not the correct way to do things.....I am also seeing a few cells with the VE maxed out....should I increase my cu.i. in ECM constants? by how much? I will return Closed Loop Bias to the original cal...and continue v-tuning with that.   I would assume that I should not use any of the data collected while closed loop Bias was set at 661 to apply to my prior tune.? I do like to hear the decel growl and don't even mind it popping.

[strokerjlk]

I can guarentee its pig rich . That's what makes em like a on / off switch .
High ve's in decel and added decel fuel will always do that .

I personally don't think it has anything to do with your closed loop bias .
If your still in closed loop in your decel area , and it's pig rich ( sounds like it is ) then it's way way to rich . Normally 13.2-12.8 in decel area ( that when your ve's are correct ) is where you find a happy medium , between rumble and popping .
Something is driving your ve's high or rich in decel .
My guess is reversion , and everytime you do a v tune , it drives it richer and richer .
I am surprised the sensors even come on line at idle , as rich as it sounds

[BUBBIE]

[quote

I find my 09 FLHR on de-cel :

HD (brain) shuts off the fuel on de-cel, even using my SE pro tuner it does it.... Then back on at that lower RPM like the OP described. That has always worked this way on my bike.

HD's way for no popping on de-cel

signed....BUBBIE
[/quote]

Reading the OP opening statement= EXACTLY what I said is going on... No one seems to address ME or my statement....

Can It Be That Simple? !!!

My bike WILL do the exact same thing as OP says his is doing... I'm NOT saying anything about his TUNE but that HD Shuts Off the Fuel on Hard de-cel and applies it back on at that lower RPM.... Just like OP is talking about.

IF he twist throttle when it is doing its shut off on de-cel,,,,,,,,, it will IMMEDIATELY return to fuel flow.........

signed....BUBBIE

[rbabos]

Any decels I've seen go open loop. Bias has no effect in this case as bias only works in closed loop. 661 isn't overly rich other then for cruise range. Posting the cal is the only way to see what's going on. A DME file with it would be awesome too. Otherwise the guessing will continue.
Ron

[Grasmo]

If any body can give me instructions on how to post the DME .I would love it!!! It does seem that the decel thing got more pronounced with more v-tuning. And it acts exactly like the kill switch...although I tend to believe it could be the fuel shutting of in an effort to prevent backfiring etc.......very un-nerving approaching an intersection and coasting into a turn dead and anticipating restart

[BUBBIE]

IF you keep a little Throttle "on" it should not go to De-cel. On mine it is only when fully off the throttle does it do it...

Maybe try it and let me know.

signed....BUBBIE

[joe_lyons]

I don't believe that the injectors are shut off on decell.  Otherwise why would increasing or decreasing ve in the low kpa columns have any effect.  At about 1750 most bikes jump from 15ish kpa to 30ish kpa.  Easy test is remove 15% from the lowest ve column and see what it does.

[strokerjlk]

I don't believe that the injectors are shut off on decell.  Otherwise why would increasing or decreasing ve in the low kpa columns have any effect.  At about 1750 most bikes jump from 15ish kpa to 30ish kpa.  Easy test is remove 15% from the lowest ve column and see what it does.

[lonewolf]

Sure they do depending on the calibration. This is a 617 cal and they don't come back on till 1850. Some do and some don't. Finding one that does this helps with getting rid of popping on the bikes with the old style touring exhaust.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Grasmo]

I wish i could figure out how to post my cal and a dme file.....I'll try to do it.....just don't get bent if I accidentally put up something that don't work....