3 cams that have possibilities

[No Cents]

  I plan on bumping the compression on my 124 engine with the Diamond Racing .010 over domed pistons I have.
I should be right around the 11.86:1 range with these pistons installed. I think this compression with a good tune will still be streetable for me to run around on here locally because we still have some decent 93 octane fuel almost everywhere.
I'm looking at 3 different cam options for this set up so far.
I have a set of S&S 640's and a set of the CR 651's on the shelf. I'm also liking what I've seen of the Redshift 647's...they look like another strong candidate that could possibly work very well in my engine too.
I'm going to use a set of 1.7 Baisley rollers on the intake sides of which ever cam I end up deciding to use...and possibly advancing them +4*. The S&S 640 looks good on paper with the stilts and the +4* key.
Does anyone have any real world experience with these cams for a good comparison? 
Opinions are also welcome.

[05FLHTC]

Is this a different motor or have you allowed Max to exhaust you out of the Fueling cams you were running?

[redmtrckl]

Why not try em all and do a comparison and post the results. After all it's only money and the board needs something new to pick on

Hint: the Redshifts like a 2-1 Boarzilla

[hrdtail78]

Might as well try the Tman 725 while at it.

[Cracked Head]

http://www.scripturessay.com/do-demons-possess-people-today/  After reading this it is probably safe to assume you are not possessed by demons.In that case the S&S 640,is pretty tough to better,except for dedicated dragbike.No more than 2* advanced,probably better off with proper gear ratio,than cam advanced.You are starting to push the boundry of street strip toy rather than street cruiser.Tune for greatest area under shift and after shift torque line,fook peak h.p. number.You will need more than the industry standard 1.760-1.790 ID manifold and port area for bigger upper end power with that many cubes.

[No Cents]

I have never had Fueling cams in my 124.
So:
1 vote for to try them all...because I'm rich    that's wrong...I'm poor.
1 vote for Tman 725's.
1 vote for the 640's

[TorQuePimp]

  .640's straight up puts you at 207-209

  Best bet I think between the three...I would really like the 647 if it were on a lil wider lsa for a 120+ incher

[prodrag1320]

im using the RS .647`s in the 124" im doing for myself.with how busy I am,it should be done by 2017 (maybe)

[Buffalo]

 From everything I've read the 640 wins for me, with raised compression, it wakes up a bunch, even in the low end. It is also one of the few cams out there actually reasonably easy on lifters and such. Buffalo

[CowboyTutt]

No Cents, since I'm also researching my own next big inch build, I agree with TQ Inc that the 640 straight up is the way to go with your heads, compression with your new pistons and intake.  I think you told me your Burns pipe was specifically designed for this combination, so I would run it but without the advance.  That being said, I think that running almost 12-1 static is going to give you problems when touring out here in the West.  We only have 91 "cornmeal" here.  You need to consider, just as I do, is this a short run drag bike, or are you going to actually TOUR on your bike, which is a Bagger!  Regards to both you and John for his input!     -Tutt 

[No Cents]

no...very soon this will be a dedicated all play bike.
Andy my Burns pipe was actually spec'd for the future compression bump and the 640 cams.
I do plan on buying a new Ultra before I retire...which is in 19 months and counting down.
That will be my long distance cruiser.   

[CowboyTutt]

no...very soon this will be a dedicated all play bike.
Andy my Burns pipe was actually spec'd for the future compression bump and the 640 cams.

Then I think you have answered your own question my friend!  Especially if its going to be a play bike!  Was the advance factored into the calculations?  I don't think it would be a deal breaker but just wondering.  I don't think you need it.  -A- 

[John/1]

I,think your ready for a set of B2 heads Ray.
John

[No Cents]

John1
the next engine I build for myself will have B2 heads. 

Cracked Head
I'm running a 530 ZZZ O-ring chain with a 3.27 final gear ratio presently. It pulls off the bottom very nice with that ratio. I do have another rear sprocket that will put me at 3.15 for my final ratio...but this lower 3.27 ratio is way more fun to play with.

John/ torqueinc
Those Diamond Pistons put me at this if I can get the pistons at zero deck...this is according to the Big Boyz compression Calculator.
My CR 651's have the same 58* intake closing as the RS 647's.

S&S 640's                                  RS 647
11.86:1 static                        11.86:1 static
977:1 corrected                      9.91:1 corrected
202.3 ccp's @ 600'                 205.9 ccp's @ 600'

S&S 640 +4*                           RS 647  +4*
11.86:1 static                         11.86:1 static
10.04:1 corrected                   10.17 corrected
209.4 ccp's @ 600'                  212.8 ccp's @ 600'

here is what the spec's change to with both these cams with a 4* key

S&S 640 +4*
            lift     timing @/053   duration    Lobe Center    Lobe Separation
intake .640        29/56              265            103.5              108.8
exh     .640        69/21              270            114.0

RS 647 +4*
           lift     timing @ .053    duration    Lobe Center    Lobe Separation
intake .647        30/54               264            102.0              106.0
exh     .647        62/22               264            110.0


I know a lot of people really like the S&S 640 with the compression bumped up a little on them. I also know a lot of racers use the Red Shift cams in their bikes because they make the power.
I just figured I would let some more intelligent people look at what I'm debating on, and I was hoping some would chime in with their experiences with these cams.

[CowboyTutt]

Ray, some things can't be measured by the numbers!  Such things as timing!  I at one point had to remove 6 degrees of timing from my 107.  It really hurt the throttle response!  I was able to put most of it back in, but still, what I learned is that advancing the timing through the tune REALLY helps with throttle response on the street!  So I would go with your 640 straight up at lower compression and allow room for an advanced timing map!  I think that this will show up on the time slips but not necessarily on the dyno!  It will rev much faster and quicker than the higher compression build but with less timing.  Just my "no cents".  -A- 

[No Cents]

I know what your saying "A".
The +4* key is just another tool in the tool box that is a possible option...I probably don't/won't need it.
I just wanted to post what those cams looked like with the key added to them.

[2006FXDCI]

Ray , i only have a few hundred miles on my new 124" at 10.8 to 1 with the 640's . They are super quiet but a tad soft until around 2800 rpm's . Not nearly as angry as my 662-2's in my little all bore 107" but so far I really like this 124" ! I think the compression bump you plan on doing will really make the 640's shine !

[2006FXDCI]

The 647's will be the next cams in my 107" with a compression bump ! Want to experiment some 

[FXDRYDR]

Though the "Cat's out of the bag" thread was over??  LOLOL!!

I'm loving it and am tuned in.

[mike jesse]

I'd opt for the 640's straight up Ray.

[WideWildGlide]

I VOTE .647 just so i can see what it will do the .640 in my dads 124 2012 ultra set at 11.8 where soft below 2800 if you can really call it that but at 2800 it came alive and this with 32 tooth pulley on trans factory 68 on wheel, pulled 1800 rpm fine we didnt put number down like you but i can provide pm you build spec and dyno are air cleaner is 1 thing that held us back,

[sfmichael]

on paper the 647 +4 looks pretty good 

[FXDRYDR]

IIRC turboprop is familiar with the 647.  I considered it and the 640 and went 640.

[strokerjlk]

I know a lot of people really like the S&S 640 with the compression bumped up a little on them. I also know a lot of racers use the Red Shift cams in their bikes because they make the power.

The two fastest 124ci baggers at the track are using S&S 675's on stilts .
And compression is north of 13.0 . With B2's
Plane and simple . If the goal is to have a bad azz track 124 bagger ,You won't run with the big dogs until you change heads, and do a real bump in compression . All this other stuff is just gonna get you close . If you don't plan on racing it . Just pick one of the 3  Doubt you will ever tell the diff , riding on the street .

At the level you are at
Don't choose a cam based on any kind of advance.

[No Cents]

That's the kind of info I was looking for Jim.
Thanks. 

Ray

[strokerjlk]

No problem Ray
Take it to the local 1/8 mile track . Do it on a race day and not a T&T fun night .
They will let you T&T for the price of running one class .
If you can pull down a 6.9 7.2 at 102-105 mph , then lets talk pistons / cams again .
You need a 6.7-6.9 to be competitive.

1/4 mile you need 10.5 -10.8 -125-130 mph to be competitive .

See where this is going . How many times have you seen 130 mph ,on the street ?

Can I borrow it the 11th -13 th
And the 25th - the 27 th of this month ? 

[sfmichael]

"At the level you are at
Don't choose a cam based on any kind of advance."

   

if this is to be a track only bike then low-end power really ceases to be much of a consideration
go with what the fast guys are using - no need to re-invent the wheel when you're just getting started
lots of other stuff to learn - it's expensive but fun
good luck with whichever way you go 

[gordonr]

I know a lot of people really like the S&S 640 with the compression bumped up a little on them. I also know a lot of racers use the Red Shift cams in their bikes because they make the power.

The two fastest 124ci baggers at the track are using S&S 675's on stilts .
And compression is north of 13.0 . With B2's
Plane and simple . If the goal is to have a bad azz track 124 bagger ,You won't run with the big dogs until you change heads, and do a real bump in compression . All this other stuff is just gonna get you close . If you don't plan on racing it . Just pick one of the 3  Doubt you will ever tell the diff , riding on the street .

At the level you are at
Don't choose a cam based on any kind of advance.

[No Cents]

I hear you's all loud and clear. 
Don't look at advancing a cam.
Take it for what it is and run it straight up with possibly some stilts on the intakes.

[TorQuePimp]

don't rule it out....just don't plan the build around it

[mike jesse]

So your going to cross the line and make this a track only bike?

I'd leave it alone for now and get some seat time Ray.

[No Cents]

No...not yet.
I'm waiting on the 2015 sharknose to come out so I can buy one for my daily rider...before making this one a full time play toy.
Yes...I'm going to join the sharknose crowd just to see what everyone is talking about.     I must have fell off my rocker 

[mike jesse]

No...not yet.
I'm waiting on the 2015 sharknose to come out so I can buy one for my daily rider...before making this one a full time play toy.
Yes...I'm going to join the sharknose crowd just to see what everyone is talking about.     I must have fell off my rocker 

Love my RG.

[sfmichael]

No...not yet.
I'm waiting on the 2015 sharknose to come out so I can buy one for my daily rider...before making this one a full time play toy.
Yes...I'm going to join the sharknose crowd just to see what everyone is talking about.     I must have fell off my rocker 

cool 

[kd]

Ray,

The 2011 RGU I just picked up for my project is heads above the ultra Classic on the road or in a parking lot (1 up or 2 up - even 8-up I guess). Once you get used to the fairing you will be glad you did it. With the fairing weight down lower and stable to the frame it just outright all around handles better. 

[No Cents]

 
thanks for the info kd!

[saddle tramp]

Ray,

The 2011 RGU I just picked up for my project is heads above the ultra Classic on the road or in a parking lot (1 up or 2 up - even 8-up I guess). Once you get used to the fairing you will be glad you did it. With the fairing weight down lower and stable to the frame it just outright all around handles better. 

   

[Jaycee1964]

Hey Ray,  If you wanna buy me a another bike just name the day and place and wait for me to pick one out..  I need a 3rd one too..   

[No Cents]

Hey Ray,  If you wanna buy me a another bike just name the day and place and wait for me to pick one out..  I need a 3rd one too..   

well Jay with the wifeepooh not going to ride her bike anymore and I'm going to retire in 19 months. I figured with an empty spot opening up in the barn...I'd need a second bike for me to fill the empty void   
She had me put her bike at the end of the driveway today with a for sale sign on it.

[attach=0]



[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[redmtrckl]

Doing 120mph on a bat wing ain't near as fun as 120 on a shark. On the shark the pucker factor is near non-existent.

[saddle tramp]

Doing 120mph on a bat wing ain't near as fun as 120 on a shark. On the shark the pucker factor is near non-existent.

      

[kd]

And meeting trucks on the highway is like riding a dagger through the turbulence.   

[Ohio HD]

Hey Ray,  If you wanna buy me a another bike just name the day and place and wait for me to pick one out..  I need a 3rd one too..   

well Jay with the wifeepooh not going to ride her bike anymore and I'm going to retire in 19 months. I figured with an empty spot opening up in the barn...I'd need a second bike for me to fill the empty void   
She had me put her bike at the end of the driveway today with a for sale sign on it.

[attach=0]

There's yer drag bike Ray, if you really want to go big HP and low weight and reduced drag.

[No Cents]

I gave it some serious thought Brian...but she said she wants to sell it and pay her bills off so she can retire too.   
If that's her plan...I say go for it girl!
Hell...she doesn't have a dime in the bike...so it's all profit for her. 
I'm just watching the money I spent for her to have this bike she wanted soooo badly, and she just had to have it...go down the drain.
But if she's happy and not pestering me...I'm happy too. 

[C-Cat]

No...not yet.
I'm waiting on the 2015 sharknose to come out so I can buy one for my daily rider...before making this one a full time play toy.
Yes...I'm going to join the sharknose crowd just to see what everyone is talking about.     I must have fell off my rocker 

you won't be sorry. Just rode from VT to SC on  my 2011 107 RG. 80-85 . RG all the way!

[Jaycee1964]

Hey Ray,  If you wanna buy me a another bike just name the day and place and wait for me to pick one out..  I need a 3rd one too..   

well Jay with the wifeepooh not going to ride her bike anymore and I'm going to retire in 19 months. I figured with an empty spot opening up in the barn...I'd need a second bike for me to fill the empty void   
She had me put her bike at the end of the driveway today with a for sale sign on it.

[attach=0]

That's a nice 03 Ray.  Is it injected?  Doesn't look like it has much in it.

[No Cents]

it's bone stock with only the V&H long shots on it. The engine/tranny has never been apart.
It has 12,222 miles on the clock.
Whoever buys it will be getting a nice low mileage bike.

[RXBOB]

RS647'S for me Ray

I just got a set of RS647s  GDrives for my 120r Softy,,,,,,, for the near future

[No Cents]

 
where are you setting the compression at with the RS647's?
Let me know how you like them.

Ray

[RXBOB]

where are you setting the compression at with the RS647's?
Let me know how you like them.

Ray

I am planning on 11.7/1 comp
currently have 11.2/1 with the untouched MVA heads and GMR 5.5cc piston combo, but plan on CCing heads to 91 to up the comp.

Not in any hurry yet to undertake these little changes got my shed full and need to get a couple of other project completed first
back to your OP

[No Cents]

 
thanks FXST120r.
I've never been around a bike running the RS647's before. I liked the one that Jim tuned with that 124 Axtell drop in kit in it. He had 1.7 stilts on the intakes of his 647's. I was impressed with the early horsepower numbers it made before 4K rpm's...plus he was running stock MVA heads on it. I felt he left a bunch on the table...because those heads were not loved on.
I have to honestly admit that the CR651's I've got sitting on the shelf pulled really super hard from about 2800 rpm's to out the back door...probably harder than any cam I've ever ran in my life to date. Those cams just have that hot rod feeling to them and they just flat out sounded nasty too.
The S&S 640 cam is the one that everybody says is a cam that is easy on the valve train and it will pull extremely well with a little more  compression shot to them. I've heard many times that the 640's are soft on the bottom until you get them over 2800 rpm's. I wonder how well they will perform off the bottom with the compression shot to them at 11.86:1. 
So now you see my delima...any of these three cams will probably work for me...but I was just looking for anyone possibly having personal experience with them for some good feedback.
I appreciate Jim's honesty when he replied with: if the bike isn't going to the drag strip with at least the compression bumped up over 13.0:1 with a set of B2's...it will just be another run of the mill bike in the bagger class.
That kind of opened my eyes...because I have no plans of stomping on the compression like that.
So I guess for me when the time comes to add my pistons...it will be a coin toss on which one of these three cams to try...and I'll just have to make it my play toy street bagger. 
Thanks for all the replies men...I truly appreciate it.   

Ray

[jam65]

Maybe I missed it, but what part of your powerband are you trying to improve upon?

[No Cents]

everywhere...when I do the pistons Jay

[Matt C]

im using the RS .647`s in the 124" im doing for myself.with how busy I am,it should be done by 2017 (maybe)

Funny how that works. I did up a nice set of heads and cylinders for my bike but cant seem to get
around to putting them on. 

[strokerjlk]

thanks FXST120r.
I've never been around a bike running the RS647's before. I liked the one that Jim tuned with that 124 Axtell drop in kit in it. He had 1.7 stilts on the intakes of his 647's. I was impressed with the early horsepower numbers it made before 4K rpm's...plus he was running stock MVA heads on it. I felt he left a bunch on the table...because those heads were not loved on.
I have to honestly admit that the CR651's I've got sitting on the shelf pulled really super hard from about 2800 rpm's to out the back door...probably harder than any cam I've ever ran in my life to date. Those cams just have that hot rod feeling to them and they just flat out sounded nasty too.
The S&S 640 cam is the one that everybody says is a cam that is easy on the valve train and it will pull extremely well with a little more  compression shot to them. I've heard many times that the 640's are soft on the bottom until you get them over 2800 rpm's. I wonder how well they will perform off the bottom with the compression shot to them at 11.86:1. 
So now you see my delima...any of these three cams will probably work for me...but I was just looking for anyone possibly having personal experience with them for some good feedback.
I appreciate Jim's honesty when he replied with: if the bike isn't going to the drag strip with at least the compression bumped up over 13.0:1 with a set of B2's...it will just be another run of the mill bike in the bagger class.
That kind of opened my eyes...because I have no plans of stomping on the compression like that.
So I guess for me when the time comes to add my pistons...it will be a coin toss on which one of these three cams to try...and I'll just have to make it my play toy street bagger. 
Thanks for all the replies men...I truly appreciate it.   

Ray

Put a pingel  elec over air shifter on in. A dyna two step with a shift light .
That will busy your hands for a while .
Get some seat time . There are lots of class's to run .
Gotta see where it's at now . Before you use another cam .
And it's all stuff you need anyway .
It might just surprise you what it will do.
Xenia race is in a couple weeks . 

[WideWildGlide]

which dyna 2 step are you using stroker?