K&P engineering oil filter

[Templer]

TRUTH BE TOLD: I put a standard filter on every 10,000 miles or so   just cuz!!!!???

[wolf_59]

Ray,  might as well get the Flo filter,  has the same micron rating, and has a hex to the end for removal.     I have installed a few of them,  on my bike I run the K&P and it does everything I need except I don't believe in the heat reduction claim LOL it could be very minute reduction. 

Templar,  OEM might have a better rating on the micron, but how about efficiency......  I know  the K&P  and FLO filter are absolute efficiency and the OEM is not.  which mean bigger crap flow thru it.

Get the FLO from CA Phil,  or the K&P

I clean mine with Kerosene and then simple green.

thanks for the tip John!
I just ordered the FLO filter.
Price wise it was a little cheaper than the K&P oil filter...and it looks identical in the spec's.
After watching their video for the FLO filter and seeing the nut on the end for easier removal for me...it sold me on the filter.
I found the costs was only $119.95 plus $6.95 to ship thru PC Racing.

Ray

added later:
If anyone is interested in the FLO oil filter...I found it on Amazon.com for $90.04 with free shipping...part# PCS4C.
I should have looked around before buying mine so fast     oh well.

I've been running the Flo filters for awhile now  just be sure that you don't spin them up by hand like a standard filter, use the recommended tq. specs that is on the box I believe it is 20 ft. lbs. 

[strokerjlk]

   
thanks for the tip on the cleaner Gordon!
Here is the one I'm buying. It has a 2 liter cleaner area and it's made out of stainless steel.

Ray

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thats a smokin deal . we probably have 20 or so of those at work.
we run em 24/7 very nice units.
been using my K&P for 40,000 +miles . nice 

[rbabos]

this is what I was talking about Bob.
This is an absolute filter compared to the regular spin on oil filters.

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Whenever I read that crap I shake my head. A bypass is not an open closed deal. It only opens enough to take care of any differential pressures. That means most of the oil is still travelling through the media and some through bypass. I suppose it's can be done on a 32* day with 20/50 and go WFO when it starts. Besides, 30 micron is just the right size of particle to make the most wear within the average clearances in engines. It's like saying K&N offers superior air filtration. It doesn't. Besides the claim of being reusable, the rest are not all that accurate.
Ron

[Durwood]

I had a K&P filter on my last bike, I now run OE filters on my bike and they are the only filter I will use on a customers as well.

To add to what Ron said, the OE filter has a anti-drain back valve/flap built in. I often wonder if the lack of this feature in most other filters is where a noisy lifter at cold start originates..

Things that make you go hmmm.

[wfolarry]

I had a K&P filter on my last bike, I now run OE filters on my bike and they are the only filter I will use on a customers as well.

To add to what Ron said, the OE filter has a anti-drain back valve/flap built in. I often wonder if the lack of this feature in most other filters is where a noisy lifter at cold start originates..

Things that make you go hmmm.

You're overthinking it now. Take a breather.

[No Cents]

 I've searched and searched and can not find anything that factually states that one of these cleanable oil filters are any better or worse than a factory spin on type.
What has been interesting reading to me is how different the internal media's are and what they are made of. The medical grade 304 stainless and the paper have way different ratings on how well they flow and catch particles in the oil. Apparently there is no equal comparison to be found on how they compare to each other as far as catching micron size particles because of the different material the media's are made of. Yes...the factory type filter says it catches 5 microns...but when you add in the flow rate to it, that ends up to be 50% of the time from what I've read. So what is the micron rating it's catching the other 50% of the time?
I've found the flow rates of the factory type filter vs the medical grade media in the cleanable filters are way different...with the medical type stainless media coming out way on top.
I'm in total agreement that I want the best filter I can to catch any possible debris I might have in my oil. I would just like to see some side by side testing results...for a true comparison.
I have yet to find one that actually compares the two equally and clearly shows which one is better from all aspects.

Ray

[Soft 02]

For me ill take the HD oil filter at $10. Ive taken apart many of my oil filters and separated the media looking for trapped metal, plastic, and brass. Its a lot different than a traditional paper media filter and does a fine job of trapping particles. The re usable one looks good to but costs more up front, requires more maintenance and you either need to clean it with solvents or an ultrasonic cleaner. KISS IMO.

[Templar2]

Here is a photo of the Flow on my bike, good filter and very easy to take off.

[No Cents]

 I wish I could buy a HD oil filter for $10.00 around here. They are $15.00 at my local HD dealerships.
I would buy 4 K&N oil filters online at a time to drop the cost a little...but on a good riding season for me I spend close to $100.00 on oil filters alone. I do change my oil sooner than required...and I don't have an issue with taking the extra time involved to clean a re-usable oil filter.
From what I've been able to find with reviews on a re-usable oil filter has been more positive findings with the only negatives I'm hearing is on the forum here.
This is a tech forum...and I do take heed to what I'm being told here...but no one has actually showed me any positive proof that the re-usable oil filter is bad thing.
I have a drain pan that I place my old spin on type filters on when I take them off. I'd take a sharpie marker and I write the date and mileage of the oil change on the end of it. When I get two or three filters in the drain pan...I'll cut them apart before disgarding them to check and see what is found inside them.
Anal...I know but that is why I'm referred to as being 8-up. 

Ray

added later:
 
thanks for the pic...it looks good!

[gordonr]

Another benefit to stainless media is during cold oil startup the bypass valve in standard filters will open until the oils warms and thins out before it will close. Stainless media allows thick oil to pass thru with less back pressure without opening the bypass valve. I also had one dyno operator claim because of the reduction in back pressure at the oil pump with the stainless filter he picked upped 2-4 HPs but I personally have not confirmed such a claim.

[rbabos]

I had a K&P filter on my last bike, I now run OE filters on my bike and they are the only filter I will use on a customers as well.

To add to what Ron said, the OE filter has a anti-drain back valve/flap built in. I often wonder if the lack of this feature in most other filters is where a noisy lifter at cold start originates..

Things that make you go hmmm.

To some extent , yes. Especially if the cooler is higher then the filter and the bike sits for a week or so. There is a reason for ADV's and all systems short of the vertical down should use it. Any air void in the start of the oil flow will add air to the lifters which needs to bleed that out again. Same deal as changing the oil and not at least half filling the filter. We've all seen or heard that lag time. Pressure is there for a second or two at first start, then air, and eventually pressure again if installing a dry oil filter. Running a high pressure plain bearing engine now, I want pressure each and every time I start that thing with no lag times from either reason.
Ron

[Don D]

I've searched and searched and can not find anything that factually states that one of these cleanable oil filters are any better or worse than a factory spin on type.
What has been interesting reading to me is how different the internal media's are and what they are made of. The medical grade 304 stainless and the paper have way different ratings on how well they flow and catch particles in the oil. Apparently there is no equal comparison to be found on how they compare to each other as far as catching micron size particles because of the different material the media's are made of. Yes...the factory type filter says it catches 5 microns...but when you add in the flow rate to it, that ends up to be 50% of the time from what I've read. So what is the micron rating it's catching the other 50% of the time?
I've found the flow rates of the factory type filter vs the medical grade media in the cleanable filters are way different...with the medical type stainless media coming out way on top.
I'm in total agreement that I want the best filter I can to catch any possible debris I might have in my oil. I would just like to see some side by side testing results...for a true comparison.
I have yet to find one that actually compares the two equally and clearly shows which one is better from all aspects.

Ray

No pony in the race here but..
It is not the media type that is the control of flow and micron size it's the absolute micron rating. It is possible to employ a cellulose based media that would flow the same as the screen it just could not be cleaned properly without compromising the integrity. If the screen was a 10 micron absolute filter it would flow considerably less and likely less than the full flow elements.

Truth be told that 35 micron filter, absolute, will actually catch more fines <35µm as it gets closer to being clogged.
I am not a proponent of either type of filter to be honest but see the pros and cons of each.
Harley doesn't publish the beta ratio for their 5 micron rating filter. Nor does K&P engineering state what it's element would do in a "nominal" test, in simpler terms for example: our filter, tested using method SAE J1858, has a beta ratio of XX% at 10 microns
so comparing them properly would take a side by side test using the same test method.
Maybe this has been done but I have not seen that.

[No Cents]

 I haven't found it either Don.
I've searched...but came up empty.
I'm going to try the FLO filter I bought...and I'll run it and see how it does.
I'll see if all the claims about it are true.   

Ray

[rbabos]

I haven't found it either Don.
I've searched...but came up empty.
I'm going to try the FLO filter I bought...and I'll run it and see how it does.
I'll see if all the claims about it are true.   

Ray

Watch out for that extra hp claim. You might flip the bike on it's back.
Ron

[Don D]

This paper from donaldson is one example of real data
http://www.donaldson.com/en/ih/support/datalibrary/001616.pdf
Mobil 1 filters also publish their beta ratio which is ~99% @ 25µm

[Admiral Akbar]

I had a K&P filter on my last bike, I now run OE filters on my bike and they are the only filter I will use on a customers as well.

To add to what Ron said, the OE filter has a anti-drain back valve/flap built in. I often wonder if the lack of this feature in most other filters is where a noisy lifter at cold start originates..

Things that make you go hmmm.

I have 2 bikes with Fueling pumps in them.  My guess is that they have a bit of clearance in them as they take about 3-6 seconds for the mechanical gauge to register and oil light to out on first start.. I use KnN oil filters. One has SNS 640 cams in it and the other SnS625.. Nether make any noise on start up.. They may sit for a week between starts.  The one with 640s did wear out a set of Revolution Performance lifters after about 10,000 miles (you should see the valve springs.. ) .. They were always quiet at start-up but eventually ticked a bit at idle when the oil temps were up.. New set of lifters and quiet again..

Max

[No Cents]

I haven't found it either Don.
I've searched...but came up empty.
I'm going to try the FLO filter I bought...and I'll run it and see how it does.
I'll see if all the claims about it are true.   

Ray

Watch out for that extra hp claim. You might flip the bike on it's back.
Ron

thanks for the warning Ron!
Now that's funny right there...no worries of me flipping it over backwards.   

[Don D]

By the way 35µm is about .001"
That is not a small fragment and can surely hose either a piston jet or lifter

[rbabos]

By the way 35µm is about .001"
That is not a small fragment and can surely hose either a piston jet or lifter

Yup, it's the perfect wear particle size to fit in between parts. Smaller will go through and bigger usually don't get in. Oil pumps take the worst beating on the big stuff.
Ron

[clawdog60]

Donaldson should start making 4 micron harley oil filters from a look at the chart.

[Mountainman streetbob]

I wish I could buy a HD oil filter for $10.00 around here. They are $15.00 at my local HD dealerships.
I would buy 4 K&N oil filters online at a time to drop the cost a little...but on a good riding season for me I spend close to $100.00 on oil filters alone. I do change my oil sooner than required...and I don't have an issue with taking the extra time involved to clean a re-usable oil filter.
From what I've been able to find with reviews on a re-usable oil filter has been more positive findings with the only negatives I'm hearing is on the forum here.
This is a tech forum...and I do take heed to what I'm being told here...but no one has actually showed me any positive proof that the re-usable oil filter is bad thing.
I have a drain pan that I place my old spin on type filters on when I take them off. I'd take a sharpie marker and I write the date and mileage of the oil change on the end of it. When I get two or three filters in the drain pan...I'll cut them apart before disgarding them to check and see what is found inside them.
Anal...I know but that is why I'm referred to as being 8-up. 

Ray

added later:
 
thanks for the pic...it looks good!

Ray I have no "hard" evidence from a scientific viewpoint except for advertising quotes from the manufacturers.

However I plumbed an old k&p on a 460 powered f350 with over 350k and 20 years on the motor. I hooked up on an oil cooler aux line and plumbed it in and then compared what the k&p caught compared to the factory filter (sectioned) side by side real time comparison on that beat old truck.

I have since installed on both my bikes and several friends bikes.

The k&p caught more grit, grime and junk. The theory is sound, in use it's sound AND I like the way it looks and is very easy to service.

[No Cents]

 
thanks mtnman!
I've read about these re-usable filters today until I'm blue in the face. I still haven't seen anyone post any hard evidence that is doesn't work as implied.
I have read tons of rave reviews about them...and I have not seen anything that shows where these type filters have let debris back into the engine and it has not caught it first on the magnet or in the stainless filter media.   
In theory I guess some people don't like them because of the stainless media possibly not catching the debris with it's higher 35 micron rating vs the lower rated paper or synthetic fiber oil filters...which allow by-pass oil into the engine on cold start ups.
I still need to see the hard proof where this re-usable oil filter has not done it's job...and an engine failure was caused by it.
If someone can show me where this has actually happened...I'll not use the filter.

I just received an e-mail back from JJ @ PC Racing. They actually priced matched the price that I showed them from Powersports Superstore and refunded me back the difference and shipped it factory direct from them for free.
Now that was pretty impressive customer relations right there.
I look forward to seeing the filter for the 1st time in person myself.
My ETA for it is 2-3 working days.

Ray

[Don D]

The evidence is anecdotal and case studies are built on real data.
None of these oil filters would cause an immediate failure perhaps just a lower life expectancy.
Want to know for sure?
Change the oil and clean the filter (or as new)
Leave your hands off the oil system for 5k and send in an oil sample to Blackstone.
That is the "acid test" so to speak.
The rest just is talking points

[strokerjlk]

Ray you saw what my pistons and cylinders looked like at 27,000 miles .
Don't sweat it .