Lifter Gone Bad? (120")

[Eglider05]

How far do I need to go? I'd like to avoid pulling the heads if possible.

Thanks,
Rick

[clawdog60]

7k doesn't buy a whole lot of reliability?

[Eglider05]

7k doesn't buy a whole lot of reliability?

I haven't got much over half of that into this build as I carried over some parts and sold parts from my last build. The fact that it's a 120" has nothing to do with a failed lifter. It could happen on any motor.

Rick

[Buffalo]

 Sorry to see you in this predicament. Its not easy to have a lot invested in time and $$, and have it go out.
  The problem to me is that the finely ground lifter roller will have found it way thru everything in the motor!
A complete inspection and cleaning, with all new bearings thru out would be the only safe way to guarantee the problem won't reoccur right away. that would include a oil pan removal and thorough cleaning of all oil passages.
I'd pop the oil pan/ rocker covers right away, check for sparkles of metal, if its there, you have a complete overhaul to do IMHO.  fwiw  Buffalo

[1FSTRK]

Not trying to put salt in an open wound. This was good advice, was it followed through?

preignition/pinging?

Nope, I know what that sounds like. This is a valve train sound for sure. It comes on when I hammer it up to the 5800-6000 rpm range. After I slow down and resume speed if goes back to normal within 30 seconds give or take, almost like the lifters aren't getting enough oil at the higher rpm's.

Rick

Probably getting enough oil since it recovers so fast. Could be one with excessive leakdown. Higher the rpm the more time it's exposed to max valve spring pressures and can't hold 0 lash.  Could also be a defective check valve or the higher rpms from inertia on the ball allowing to to lose sealing from possibly a weak spring in the check valve assembly. At that rpm one lifter can sound like the whole set and tough to find short of in a controlled enviroment like on a dyno. Otherwise, it's swap one at a time and rule it out that way. Or, as you mentioned a different brand of four.
Ron

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,73724.msg805796.html#msg805796

[strokerjlk]

How far do I need to go? I'd like to avoid pulling the heads if possible.

Thanks,
Rick

Clean it the best you can . Use some good lifters .
My 120 ate the SE lifters up at 15,000 miles .
I cleaned it up and after finding out within 800 miles that the velvet touch lifters were too weak , I went with wood lifters . I tore the top end off 12,000 miles later to put the 12.1 pistons in and the cylinders/ pistons looked like brand new . Now it has been 30,000 miles since the SE lifters took a chit . It's still going fine .

[Eglider05]

Not trying to put salt in an open wound.

You're doing a pretty good job of it  I never did anything with it as it was an occasional thing and didn't do it all of the time. Besides, they all do that don't they?

Rick

[86fxwg]

If itakes u feel better, I just fixed a friends with the same problem but worse ( lifter roller froze). He elected too pull the pan & top rocker box, &sump plug out of case & flush with diesel fuel. Probably 4 gallons, this was 8000 miles ago I just pulled the pump a week ago for inspection no marks at all. Looks brand new.  This was after he got back from a trip to sturgis.

[Ohio HD]

So do you still like gatermans?

Max

Add:
Miles on the motor?

Max

Not so much anymore.

I'm thinking there's about 16k on the motor. So what should my next move be?

As everyone has said, clean as much as possible, you know the preference, take it all down. But if not, take as much apart as possible, clean, clean, clean. Then change oil several times afterwards, like at 50 miles, 100 miles, maybe again at 250 miles.

And I would get S&S Premium lifters this trip.

Hope it goes well!   

[Admiral Akbar]

Sorry to hear that!
As a recovery plan start thinking about flushing the system, that crud travels

Hi Don,

If I pull the high ratio  rockers what cams will bolt  in without a lot of fuss. I need to get this back on the road.

Thanks,
Rick

Excellent idea...

Take some load off the lifters.

Max

[Eglider05]

I'll have the cam plate out tomorrow morning and will report back on what I find. I think the worse part of getting this thing opened up is the V&H Power Duals head pipe. At this point I'm feeling hopeful.  I drained the oil and found nothing unusual on the drain plug magnet. I made sure my oil drain pan was pristine when I pulled the plug. I dragged a large magnet through the oil and let it drain and found nothing on the magnet. The lifter looks worse than it is.The roller needles are intact and the roller does turn although it's notchy.

Thanks,
Rick

[Eglider05]

If itakes u feel better, I just fixed a friends with the same problem but worse ( lifter roller froze). He elected too pull the pan & top rocker box, &sump plug out of case & flush with diesel fuel. Probably 4 gallons, this was 8000 miles ago I just pulled the pump a week ago for inspection no marks at all. Looks brand new.  This was after he got back from a trip to sturgis.

A little bit. 

[No Cents]

 I'd at least flush the engine like mentioned...and change the oil and filter at very early intervals.
I would also think the cam that the bad lifter ran on is shot too.
Good luck and I hope you get it up and running very soon.

Ray

[Eglider05]

Here's a pic of the cam lobe, nothing that can be felt with the fingernail. No shiny stuff in the cam chest.

[joe_lyons]

It looks pitted from the picture but the quality isn't so good. Try another picture with it all dried off and clean and put the focus on the lobe

[No Cents]

It looks pitted from the picture but the quality isn't so good. Try another picture with it all dried off and clean and put the focus on the lobe

   
a better picture is needed!

Ray

[strokerjlk]

Here's a pic of the cam lobe, nothing that can be felt with the fingernail. No shiny stuff in the cam chest.

If it polishes up with scotch brite , and has no pitting or gouges you can feel with your fingernail, I would run it . I polished up my 266 that was in the bike when the lifters took a chit.
I am now running it again .

[Sc00ter]

Here's a pic of the cam lobe, nothing that can be felt with the fingernail. No shiny stuff in the cam chest.

I'd suggest draining as much oil as possible directly from the cam chest into a CLEAN container, then shine a light into the oil.  If metal is not reflecting back at you, then it's likely you got lucky and haven't contaminated the internals.  As strokerjlk mentioned, if you can polish your cam lobe and have no pits, gouges or grooves, use them...   

[Eglider05]

It looks pitted from the picture but the quality isn't so good. Try another picture with it all dried off and clean and put the focus on the lobe

I lied, you can catch a fingernail. The oil pump also looks fine. I did find a couple of specks inside it. I haven't found anything like I found with my gear drive failure. That was a mess. I'm thinking I'll drop the pan, pull the sump plug, pop the rockers covers and inspect and flush as best I can. I really don't think this warrants pulling off the top end or does it?

I need to find out what cams I can put in this without running into valve/valve/piston clearance issues. I have contacted Don.

Rick

[No Cents]

sorry...but that cam is "junk" now!
Your going to have to dig deeper now.
There was definitely metal lost from that cam lobe.
Now the 64 million dollar question:   ....was it the cam that failed 1st...or the lifter?

Ray

[strokerjlk]

 
My bet is on the lifter .
The cam is trash now though .

[Eglider05]

My bet is on the lifter .
The cam is trash now though .

I'm guessing lifter as well but no way to know for sure. The cams have a bunch of miles on them as they were in a previous build. The other 3 lobes are fine.

[rbabos]

Pretty sure kerosene and crockus cloth won't save that one.
Ron

[Eglider05]

Pretty sure kerosene and crockus cloth won't save that one.
Ron

Replacing the cams is a done deal, i just need to figure out with what and how far I'm going to go with pulling this apart. I'm surprised I didn't find a lot of junk in there.

Rick

[happyman]

So do you still like gatermans?

Max

Add:
Miles on the motor?

Max

Not so much anymore.

I'm thinking there's about 16k on the motor. So what should my next move be?

pulled a set at under 5 k were headed south quick.glad i was paying attention to how they sounded when installed and a month later   at under 5 k there was one  lifter making some noise  so i peeked and had to pull them.