CAM LIFT

[IronMike113]

What size cam lift do you think is a good safe lift for a PERF. Touring build,Some seem to think .600 is the cut off,But we have seen some as high as .640 what is your take,or does it not matter,Just asking! I want to know how far one should test the water........ 

Or as one guy told me...... You want it to run as Smooth as A 88" and have the power of a 124
My Reply,,,,,,,, you have been reading my mind."...... 

[No Cents]

  .690 lift is the cut off point   
just kidding with you Mike. I think for a long range touring bike I would try to keep it at .625 and under...but that's just me.
I had the Tman 625 cams in my bike once and I wouldn't of been afraid to run it coast to coast in a heartbeat.
I'm sure some of the experts will chime in on this.

Ray

[IronMike113]

Thanks Ray we are going to be really close in the neighborhood of 675,Great to hear someone else see's things in the same Fashion.   Thanks

PS don't send that Recording to me......... 

[No Cents]

 that Santa Claus sure was a silver tongued devil   
I laugh every time I think of it.

Ray

[TorQuePimp]

What size cam lift do you think is a good safe lift for a PERF. Touring build,Some seem to think .600 is the cut off,But we have seen some as high as .640 what is your take,or does it not matter,Just asking! I want to know how far one should test the water........ 

Or as one guy told me...... You want it to run as Smooth as A 88" and have the power of a 124
My Reply,,,,,,,, you have been reading my mind."...... 

Do you have something in mind ?

[IronMike113]

It will come in under 630 inch lift I hope,as for all the Spec's on it,I don't have them detail's,Bob is charge of that,I wanted to see what the heavy Hitters here felt about how far they would go with a cam in a Cross Country Bagger that's all,Especially when the Cubic inch size has gone up
For touring bike in the last few years compared to what was considered reliable,in a touring bike

Thanks

[strokerjlk]

I been going anywhere I want to go with 660 lift .
Got more miles on it than most guys will ever ride in a lifetime .

630 or 660 lift ?
I would be more worried about the lifters than .030 extra lift on the cams .

Remember you can't go too far , or you will have to schedule an oil change and lifter swap on the road .

[rigidthumper]

 I've spent the season on a T-Man 662-1, ~13k this year on the 120. It's prolly time to pull and check the lifters. (last set of 99Bs I had).
I do  on the road. That's what friendly indy shops are for 

[IronMike113]

Hey Strokerjlk I have a box full of Gaterman's in the Trunk,And I run that Super Duper oil no need for the oil change...... 

No I'm just trying Differant Stuff, and wanted to see what the General consensus was that's all,And not have a lot of issues on the trail that's all,and yes probably tear into it after next years riding season again,I have What Ray has alittle bit of Nosence (NoCents) just in a little bit Differant way

We started out small with Growth in mind,For future experiments,Plus it keeps Bob busy.... 

And some might call this a repeat offender.......   

[strokerjlk]

I understand the 8 up part . Got one here i am working on that has three bikes like yourself, he does this stuff with . It's a disease .

I guess the safe bet would be a factory 103 with a 54 cam .

No angry feeling . Run for miles on any fuel . Just take the sights in .
A guy really don't need anymore than that .

Somehow I don't see you , black diamond , or no cents , taking that advice .

[05fatboy95]

It will come in under 630 inch lift I hope,as for all the Spec's on it,I don't have them detail's,Bob is charge of that,I wanted to see what the heavy Hitters here felt about how far they would go with a cam in a Cross Country Bagger that's all,Especially when the Cubic inch size has gone up
For touring bike in the last few years compared to what was considered reliable,in a touring bike

Thanks

Another one of Bob D's custom
Grinds??

[IronMike113]

Yes one of his cam's....... 

As for one of those 103's with the 54 cam,Your not going to Believe this "Potty mouth".I have one of them,I ride it when we have the other one's tore down.And that bike is my favorite to ride,you are right on spot with that kinda Build....... 

I really wish I could stop,but I can't,it is a Disease,Dam it Jim I hate it when Your Right.... 

Is there a Group Gathering I can Attend for help,I'd be willing to go as long as I can bring my bike....... 

[No Cents]

 Mike...I finally found a pill that cures the motorcycle addiction...but then I get addicted to chasing the wifeepooh around sporting the #10 wood.
She keeps telling me..."put that thing away"...and I say..."but honey".
Four hours later...I'm back to normal again...and the addiction to the bike comes back again.   

Ray

[06roadglide]

Mike...I finally found a pill that cures the motorcycle addiction...but then I get addicted to chasing the wifeepooh around sporting the #10 wood.
She keeps telling me..."put that thing away"...and I say..."but honey".
Four hours later...I'm back to normal again...and the addiction to the bike comes back again.   

Ray

I just spit my coffee all over the laptop!!!   
My little lady just lets me do what I need to ease the tension. When I say I want to do something to the bike she just says "I don't care, it's your money" gotta love that about her!  Problem is I've been thinking about upping to a 124 but part of me wants to keep the money and buy her something nice for Christmas. 

[06roadglide]

Back on topic. I was once concerned about lift when I went to .660 but after a few years with it I started looking at it differently, I was at .590 lift and now .660, it's only .070 more lift which is only a tad over 1/16".  When I break it down it didn't sound as bad.  Build a good solid valve train and I don't think you'll have to worry about total lift.  IMHO

[Black Diamond]

I understand the 8 up part . Got one here i am working on that has three bikes like yourself, he does this stuff with . It's a disease .

I guess the safe bet would be a factory 103 with a 54 cam .

No angry feeling . Run for miles on any fuel . Just take the sights in .
A guy really don't need anymore than that .

Somehow I don't see you , black diamond , or no cents , taking that advice .

You see what had happen was ...

JW

[q1svt]

I was at .590 lift and now .660, it's only .070 more lift which is only a tad over 1/16".  When I break it down it didn't sound as bad.

1/16"  funny way to look at it...  Next time you're at the gym doing a workout add 11% more to the weigh you're lifting, rep's and sets for the total hour workout.  There's a very good chance that 1/16" (11%) will keep you from finishing the workout.

[clawdog60]

Mike...I finally found a pill that cures the motorcycle addiction...but then I get addicted to chasing the wifeepooh around sporting the #10 wood.
She keeps telling me..."put that thing away"...and I say..."but honey".
Four hours later...I'm back to normal again...and the addiction to the bike comes back again.   

Ray

TMSI

[Barrett]

Thoughts on going from 37's on stilts .541 to 57's on stilts .594.. I have the stilts and the 57's can be had for $225..

[06roadglide]

I was at .590 lift and now .660, it's only .070 more lift which is only a tad over 1/16".  When I break it down it didn't sound as bad.

1/16"  funny way to look at it...  Next time you're at the gym doing a workout add 11% more to the weigh you're lifting, rep's and sets for the total hour workout.  There's a very good chance that 1/16" (11%) will keep you from finishing the workout.

  That's surely an odd way to compare valve lift. So what you're saying is...a set of factory heads with stock beehive springs which many cam manufactures claim can safely accommodate up to .575" lift (some claim more), which is 21% more than a factory cam with .474" lift, won't survive because at the gym you can't lift 21% more weight in a given time?   

The OP asked what total lift a valvetrain can safely survive at.  My answer is...set it up correctly and the total lift doesn't matter. IMHO

[q1svt]

Yeah, me too...

First "a set of factory heads with stock beehive springs which many cam manufactures claim can safely accommodate up to .575" lift "

This is just specific to the springs not getting coll bind


My point was ... to lift as you stated '21%' more than stock takes work, and 11% over that is even more work.

Yes, racers run lifts in the 7.50, so you can set the valve train to run a lot of lift.


Back to the OP  "What size cam lift do you think is a good safe lift for a PERF. Touring"

Higher lift requires a lot more dollars to set up... but like weight lifting it also requires a lot of up keep.


Personally the OP asked a loaded question without providing enough details about:

What did he mean in his mind of 'Performance'
What did he mean in his mind of 'Touring'

without that it's just 

[Admiral Akbar]

The OP asked what total lift a valvetrain can safely survive at.  My answer is...set it up correctly and the total lift doesn't matter. IMHO

I would disagree.. Higher lift means more spring pressure, resulting in more wear on bearings, lifters, rockers ends.. My bet is that cam ramps play more into longevity then actual lift tho.   So the top end may only last 50,000 miles instead of 100,000 before valve guides, rocker bushings, rocker ends, rollers, valve ends, valve seats, pushrod ends, need reconditioning.. Actual mileage depends on oil used and change, number of cold starts, length of time at high RPM, motor temps reached (both high and low)..

Personally if worried about bigger lifts, I'd expect that the only things I'd be concerned about is a lifter, valve spring or some other catastrophic failure as those would stop you dead.  Worn parts will only make noise but still get you home.. 

Max

[06roadglide]

Then my Valve train must be shot then. It has about 50k miles on SE roller rockers that were used when installed so they actually have been in service over 70K with over 450# of open spring pressure and close to 200# on the seat.  I had a set of B lifters in it for over 40k miles before I replaced then because of internet hype saying it should be done but they looked flawless when removed. I then installed the latest and greatest 1023 gatorman crap lifters that clacked every time you started the engine so they were only in for a couple hundred miles before installing a set of GMR lifters. It's a touring bike that has been ran all day long at 3200-3300 rpm for 950+ miles several times. Never a hiccup out of the valvetrain. 
I'll agree that the stress is increased but I'll disagree it's to a point that parts fail.  To much hype on the interweb about whats the latest and greatest before any actual proving gets done. It happens all the time, Tuning devices, lifters, frame tracking devices, tires, oil, atf in the primary, comps, new frame vs old frame, 5 vs 6 speed, which style tensioner is best, blah blah blah.

It's been brought up a million times but look into nascar and what those guys put a valvetrain through. Rarely do they have a problem.  It's all good quality parts that have been tested and proven.

[q1svt]

It's been brought up a million times but look into nascar and what those guys put a valvetrain through. Rarely do they have a problem.  It's all good quality parts that have been tested and proven.

Not a good example to prove your point... first you need to price a complete Nascar valve train, (yes that sucking sound is your wallet life savings being emptied), then find out how long one set is used 

I think Max made good points: 
Higher lift means more spring pressure, resulting in more wear on bearings, lifters, rockers ends..
My bet is that cam ramps play more into longevity then actual lift tho.   
Actual mileage depends on oil used and change, number of cold starts, length of time at high RPM, motor temps reached (both high and low)..

[Admiral Akbar]

Then my Valve train must be shot then. It has about 50k miles on SE roller rockers that were used when installed so they actually have been in service over 70K with over 450# of open spring pressure and close to 200# on the seat.  I had a set of B lifters in it for over 40k miles before I replaced then because of internet hype saying it should be done but they looked flawless when removed. I then installed the latest and greatest 1023 gatorman crap lifters that clacked every time you started the engine so they were only in for a couple hundred miles before installing a set of GMR lifters. It's a touring bike that has been ran all day long at 3200-3300 rpm for 950+ miles several times. Never a hiccup out of the valvetrain. 
I'll agree that the stress is increased but I'll disagree it's to a point that parts fail.  To much hype on the interweb about whats the latest and greatest before any actual proving gets done. It happens all the time, Tuning devices, lifters, frame tracking devices, tires, oil, atf in the primary, comps, new frame vs old frame, 5 vs 6 speed, which style tensioner is best, blah blah blah.

It's been brought up a million times but look into nascar and what those guys put a valvetrain through. Rarely do they have a problem.  It's all good quality parts that have been tested and proven.

And 660 lift? Wow..  What cam?

Max