MegaLogViewer HD has a new feature

[whittlebeast]

My MLVHD updated and a new feature showed up. Note that this may only show up with the registered version. There now is the ability to create histograms to display almost anything like AFR or throttle position. The cool part of the MLVHD version of this is it will display any combination of 3 log fields that you want. Here is a couple of screen shots to give you guys an idea what can be done.

Here is a sample of AFR.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/RxpxTuning/MLVHD%20Histogram%20AFR.PNG

In the next screen shot I display the average Duty Cycle at every location.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/RxpxTuning/MLVHD%20Histogram%20Duty%20Cycle.PNG

The game changer is that you can set the RPM and MAP break points to any value you want. You can then paste those numbers into Excel. Way cool stuff. I will post more as I find things in the software.

This example happens to be a Motec log but it also works just fine with lots of other logs like PC5/POD-300 or Power Vision logs.

Andy

[hrdtail78]

Links go to Niehaus but says page isn't found.

You mess with EFI live ever?

[whittlebeast]

Try the links now....

Does EFI Live have data logs you can send me?

[hrdtail78]

Links work.

Your inbox is full.

[whittlebeast]

A cool thing about this software is it will regenerate almost any table from an unknown tune.  All you do is log the unknown tune and plot up anything you want.  This happens to be a turbo motor that I needed the timing map to see what the original tuner installed into the tuning software.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/mlvhd/MLVHD%20Timing%20Histogram.PNG

Have fun tuning

[whittlebeast]

Here is a cool new thing hidden under the covers.

Go to histogram, and pick rpm, map and afr. Now press <control> P and the run will play and real time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eMkTpc-6POc

Notice how fast the fuel tuning cells change. The number in each box is the average AFR the motor was getting for the run.

This log is from a racer playing cat and mouse with a couple of fellow racers.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

I just did a quick video to show how you can jump around in views as the log replays.  Keep in mind that the majority if the tuning I do is on motors I have never seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtP_PhvdnnY

Andy

[whittlebeast]

I did this post for a different site.  This happens to be a different motor but all the principals still apply to Harleys, or any other motor you may be tuning.  Notice how well these motors in the histogram table......  And to think that is a typical Sunday ride for the owner.  That motor has never been on a dyno. It is tuned entirely from data logging.

<<<<<  snip  >>>>>>>>

Here are a couple of screen shots that help explain how MLV HD does autotune.

In this screen shot, you see on the left, the Motec Target AFR is shown as it relates to Engine speed and Inlet ManifoldPressure.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/RxpxTuning/Autotune%20Concept.png

In the center is the AFR that showed up at the wideband sensor.On the right is effectivly the average multiplier that needs to be used to adjust the ECU fuel table. If you see a clear and consistent pattern of blue or red, the fuel table needs significant adjusting.

The trick is that you are limited by the ECU to make adjustments in specific cells. These cells are normally about 10 KPA and 500 RPM steps. Tuning winds up being a big game of averages. This is where MLV and the table generator makes this all way faster than any other way I have ever seen to tune a motor. Essentially MLV HD bit-bangs all the data down to an adjustment map. This map can easily be adjusted to have the same bins that your tuning software is using.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/RxpxTuning/Autotune%20Concept%20Export.png

Have fun tuning and feel free to ask any questions.

Andy

[Mirrmu]

Thanks for topic whittlebeast, what would be the top 5 things i would look for when using log viewer mode,

At moment have it set up to show map, tp and vss(chart1), ve front, ve rear (chart2), advanve front and rear, knock front and rear(chart3)

[whittlebeast]

I would add the O2 sensor volts front and rear,  Pulse Width front and rear, VE New front and rear. 

From Pulse Width, we can easily calculate Duty Cycle front and rear.

I don't recall if you have gear available in the logs.  If not, it is fairly easy to calculate gear by the formula

Gear Ratio = RPM/Speed

I can show you how to do this if you have never set up calculated fields.  It is really easy.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

In the Harley world, assuming you are running narrow bands, I am looking for places that the VE New is consistently different than the VE.

You can create a VE adjustment map by creating a field named VE Multiplier and define that field as

VE New Front / VE front  That will give you a fairly good where the VE tables are needing work.

I also tend to plot RPM x MAP and the knock channel looking for patterns there.

Keep in mind that you can use scatter plots to look at HUGE log (like several hours worth) all in one screen shot.

Andy

[Mirrmu]

Thanks, i will start to set things up and watch for differences with VE new to VE

Running NB but am considering buying the AT-100 kit

[whittlebeast]

This stuff gets really fun if you have a wide band in the logs.  Adding filters to your bag of tricks makes it even more interesting.   Things like show data when the motor is warm and only in 2nd to 4th gear..

I will be happy to help.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is two different hulls on the dyno of the same motor and tune.  Look how consistently you can find a lean spot in the tune.  I can do almost exactly the same thing on a big hill in say third gear.  Lean spots in the tune jump right out at you if you have the tools.  Lucky, all it takes is a little software and be willing to look at the data you already have at your finger tips.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TTS%20Tune%2003.png

If you have access to a Powervision, you can do this logging on any Harley,  Even if you happen to have a TTS or SEPST as tuning SW.

Andy

[Mirrmu]

whittlebeast, since that upgrade of MLV HD i have had nothing but trouble with the software, been in commuication with efianalytics, yet to find a solution (is a registered version)

[whittlebeast]

What issue?

What type logs are you attempting to open?

[Mirrmu]

powervision logs, i get them from the PV, open MLVHD, open file and they just dont load, it may take 30-40 secs or I have to move through the menu hitting the different tabs, sometimes nothing happens

in log viewer the charts all appear but thats it, 5min log runs but nothing to play

prior to update everything worked fine

[whittlebeast]

Street tuning vs dyno tuning.

Look at these two plots and think thru what tuning method will generate a more complete tune.

Dyno tuning (overly controlled)

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Harley%20Engine%20Dyno%20Trace.png

vs street tuning (real world tuning like you ride)

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Harley%20Engine%20Trace%202.png

Green is idle
Black in the middle is the typical riding range where you spend 70 or 80% of your riding.  Note that this is a Sporty.  Your area may be a little different.
Red is the higher power section of the map.  More power as you go up and to the right.
The purple is trailing throttle where the motor is dragging the bike generally to a lower speed.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is the entire 350000 records data log rolled into an average AFR for each tuning cell.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Harley%20Engine%20Trace%202%20Histogram.png

Andy

[FLTRI]

Just my opinion Andy, but I HATE those RPM break points! ie: "4842.8" rpm? 
Bob

[whittlebeast]

I had auto generate points turned on.  You can set those to anything you want.

Andy

[FLTRI]

I had auto generate points turned on.  You can set those to anything you want.

Andy

Why would you not want/need the rpm break points to be the same as the tuning software you are using?
Bob

[whittlebeast]

For example you could have RPM on the bottom, MAP up the side and then VE New in the field to generate your next tune.  Then add a few filters to throw out any data you want to throw out.

Or you could put in the points for your timing map and plot knock in the field.  Add the filter show only knock and poof, you have only the cells where knock is happening.

I very often create a cell AFR/Target AFR to create an average correction in the field.  A quick pass thru Excel to apply the corrections and copy paste right back into the tuning software that you are using.  That way I can mix and match logging software and tuning software.

I tune my Bosch ECU based on what I logged on the PC5 software all the time.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Post up a big log and let's see what it shows.  Ride the bike for about an hour with the logger running the entire time.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Feel free to post up before and after logs.  We would love to see what pops up.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is an example of a fairly well tuned later bike.  It was apparently tuned with a Power Vision with the wideband option.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune01.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune02.png

Good job by whoever tuned it.  The front cylinder is doing something a little bit funny in the midrange that may need attention.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

This same motor has AE and DE issues.  Look how the AFR1 is following the AFR Target fairly well except in the transitions.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune04.png

This is one of the big things we look at the race motors where driveability is everything.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Does anyone have a Knock data log off one of the newer bikes that has some serious knock.  I would love to play with the log and see if I can come up with some cool filters and tricks to make trouble shooting really easy.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Here is an example of a fairly well tuned later bike.  It was apparently tuned with a Power Vision with the wideband option.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune01.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune02.png

Good job by whoever tuned it.  The front cylinder is doing something a little bit funny in the midrange that may need attention.

Andy

When 1 cylinder gets leaner and 1 cylinder gets richer how can that be a good tune? Just look to the right of the cursor.
Can you point out the "funny" condition you are talking about?
Bob

[FLTRI]

This same motor has AE and DE issues.  Look how the AFR1 is following the AFR Target fairly well except in the transitions.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune04.png

This is one of the big things we look at the race motors where driveability is everything.

Have fun tuning

Andy

What I see is AFR2 is not getting good sampling and consequently the virtual straight line even during shifts. AFR1 looks like the sensor is getting better readings.
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Bob,  On the plot above, the red line is the AFR Target that the ECU has in the Lambda target table.  The green line is what is being detected by the on-board wideband.

Here is one of my race motors out on course.  This is about 90 sec of testing.  You can see the same sort of plot here but the colors are just different.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/RxpxTuning/Log%20Viewer%20Racing%20Plot.png

[whittlebeast]

I updated the screen shot above.  I added VE Front and VE Rear and also PW Front and Rear

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune04.png

I can't believe Harley is doing that with the injectors on the shifts.  What a driveability nightmare.  You guys need to get on the Harley ECU hackers to give you the ability to fix that.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Andy,
Why is the target AFR all over the place? That's why I mistook it for the other cylinder (hard to see on my iPad)...target is not consistent at all except WOT.
Another irritant is there are no side scales to quantify changes to know if the changes are major or minor. Guess the only way is to use the cursor.
If so, a screen shot is hard to quantify due to not knowing value of max-min data.

Gotta be honest here Andy, this looks like very old analysis software that was originally converted from DOS?
It reminds me of the 80s when we only had strip charts to evaluate engine, chassis, aero, and driver/rider info look at.
Once the D/A software gurus got interested we got much more user friendly visual analysis software...ie: Pi, MoTec, CDS, and others that offer animation analysis to speed up getting the answers to questions posed.
As always, JMHO,
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Bob, the graph scales are always on the left.

I am told the software is written in java to run on several different operating systems.  I only run it on Windows...  The code is kept fairly tight to allow running on the older versions of windows as may people tune on older laptops at the track.

Bling does not get motors tuned, extremely adjustable SW does.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Bling does not get motors tuned, extremely adjustable SW does.

Andy

I doubt all the engine builders, chassis and aero engineers call the $100,000 animation graphics they use to see what's happening in a quick time period, Bling. LOL
Strip charts are passe nowadays. Graphics is where analysis software has developed into. The faster the question can be answered the faster the vehicle gets back to the track.
JME,
Bob
Note: Here's an example of crude software to graph engine data.
http://performancetrends.com/Engine-Analyzer-Pro.htm

[whittlebeast]

Cool stuff,  I bet, but that is a far cry from $39.95 or whatever MLVHD goes for to get software that is designed to look at engine data off almost any system that will export a CSV or TXT file. 

[whittlebeast]

Bob, it makes me sick but I wrote a suspension program very similar to their program.  It was written in GWBasic way back in about 1985.  It was later rewritten to run in excel in about 1995.  Wow does that bring back memories. 

I will look around tonight on the big servers at home and see if I can generate a screen shot.

At times, I really miss racing.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Cool stuff,  I bet, but that is a far cry from $39.95 or whatever MLVHD goes for to get software that is designed to look at engine data off almost any system that will export a CSV or TXT file.

....and $34.95 more than simply using the data log software that comes with the better tuners.
Granted that software normally will not allow for all the graphing "tricks" you like to dream up.
I guess I just don't see the issues you seem to see finding and correcting tunes.

We have tuned bikes that come back for service and we do pulls on just to see if things have changed...very rare to see a good tune change...unless the O2 sensors are not getting good sampling...also very rare with the newer exhaust systems as it appears most all exh mfgs have come to the party and have relocated the sensors so they are much better than in the beginning when they went out of their way to keep the sensors out of the exhaust stream.

That said, more high performance builds need more scrutiny as far as O2 sensor sampling is concerned.

Bob

[whittlebeast]

I just played with a TwinScan3 log and all is good.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TwinScan3_01.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TwinScan3_02.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TwinScan3_VE_Corrections.PNG

Since the TwinScan3 has Front and Rear VE in the scan, it is fairly trivial to generate VE New Front and Rear.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is a couple of different screen shots of how I would use MLV to tune from a Twin Scan 3 Log

In the first screen shot, I added VE New Front.  This is based on the the Target AFR that I generate within MLV and by how far the AFR WEGO Front missed the target AFR.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TwinScan3_03.png

Then I applied a filter to the data like ignore all data that the AFR WEGO is out of range or if the Injector Duty Cycle is 0 and generate the New average VE New's

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TwinScan3_VE_New_Front.PNG

Once set up for your RPM and MAP tuning points, you have VE New values in a few seconds.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is a log of a motor running a MAF. This motor happens to be a turbo build with fairly huge dynamic range.  Notice how well the MAPxRPM matches the MAF. 

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20vs%20MAF.png

Andy

[FLTRI]

Here is a log of a motor running a MAF. This motor happens to be a turbo build with fairly huge dynamic range.  Notice how well the MAPxRPM matches the MAF. 

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20vs%20MAF.png

Andy

Not that this relates to this forum, it's bikes, or the folks looking for tuning info for this harley, are you surprised the MAF follows MAP?
Bob

[whittlebeast]

I sure was surprised the first time I saw it. 

[whittlebeast]

Bob, this has everything to do with Harley tuning.  All motors are a <suck> <squish> <BANG> <blow> and what you find on one setup almost always holds a similar pattern on the next motor.  Sure a Harley has a couple of relatively rare quirks, but the similarities are very common.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[Mirrmu]

At this stage i give the MLVHD a big thumbs down, since the update i have had nothing but trouble with the software

Efianalytics have stopped communicating with me in regards to the issue, they keep telling me i have some other software on my computer which is doing something to log file

Worked fine prior to update, since update problems

I use an apple computer, bought a cheap windows XP for winPV and MLVHD, they the only two softwares on pc apart from windows XP operating system

[whittlebeast]

How are you fetching the data log off of the PV.  Is it possible to send me that data log without attempting to open it?

The issue you are having appears to be that some piece of software is generating a non standard CSV file.  We need to figure out what piece of the sequence you are doing, is creating this.  The dead giveaway is a trace with thousands of vertical lines in MLV.

At this point, unfortunately you can no longer get updates for your computer as the underlying OS is close to 15 years old.

Andy

[Mirrmu]

Sure, can you send me your email

I open winPV, get log, save to folder, i done some logs yesterday and still same issue, the log opens but doesnt load up, only after i click around menu, or reload file

It would be good to try version prior to MLVHD again but not sure whether can re-instal this

[whittlebeast]

Here is an example of how I use MAPxRPM to locate, identify and verify a tuning issue in a tune.

I got a log from a member that was generated on a dyno.  The first thing I do is scatter plot MAPxRPM vs Duty Cycle Front and Rear and AFR.  I get this trace.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20Issue.png

Notice that strange tail off on the right trace, see the circle.  Also notice how that cylinder went lean.

From there I go to the log viewer and the trace center goes to where the event happened.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20Issue%20Trace.png

Notice where the rear cylinder dropped very lean as did the VE and the Duty Cycle.  The front cylinder also dropped leaner then I would prefer.

I then opened the Histogram view and plotted RPM, MAP and VE.  Look how the average VE Rear dropped about 20 points right at the point we had trouble.

Here is an additional view of the motor.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20Issue%2001.png

The next thing to look into is knock.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here are the knock traces on the same motor.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Knock%20Issues.png

Knock on the bottom end of the pull

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Knock%20Issues%20Bottom%20End.png

Shown in the Histogram..

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Knock%20Issues%20Histogram%20Bottom%20End.png

Now on the top end

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Knock%20Issues%20Top%20End.png

And on the histogram view

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Knock%20Issues%20Histogram%20Top%20End.png

This view makes it real easy to tell where the motor came from to get into this over loaded (knocking) situation.

Note that this log happens to be off a Power Vision log but MLVHD has no problem using logs off one system to tune a bike using a different to hack the ECU.  Mix and max in any way you want.  Street riding, Dyno Tuning...  It simply does't matter.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[FLTRI]

Gotta ask. Since the AFR trace shows a lean condition, why not just look at that and richen up the area the AFR graph shows as lean?
Why do we need all the other graphs? AFR is all I need to see lean spots that need correcting.
Same with knock. Start a bit of retard right before the event and retest.
Those basic traces are all that's needed IMO to identify and correct tuning issues.
What am I missing in all the other graphs?

[hrdtail78]

Gotta ask. Since the AFR trace shows a lean condition, why not just look at that and richen up the area the AFR graph shows as lean?

What area in the AFR graph would you make adjustment?

Why do we need all the other graphs? AFR is all I need to see lean spots that need correcting.
Same with knock. Start a bit of retard right before the event and retest.
Those basic traces are all that's needed IMO to identify and correct tuning issues.
What am I missing in all the other graphs?

You need a bit more than that.  With the last scatter graphs Andy posted.  The area being pointed to in the right graph is actually the rev limiter and decel fuel cutoff.   MLV does allow you to filter out this data.

A 3D scatter graph is a good way of looking at a lot of recorded data at once.  With repeated use with different tuning equipment on different combinations.  Trend will start to show, or things will start to look out of place.

   

[whittlebeast]

Hrdtail

You can see the same spot in the tune right here.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20Issue%20Trace.png

The dyno operator may have been very close to the rev limiter when he lifted, but both injectors were still running.  I think we are just finding a simple bust in the tune.  And after all that is exactly what we would be looking for at his point in the tuning process.

Adding a rev limiter filter could be

RevLimiter_FuelCut and define it as

[INJ PW F] = 0 or [INJ PW R] = 0

Note that doing it this way, it would also throw out any data when the trailing throttle fuel cut was active.  The names for Injector Pulse Width chances depending on the logger you are using.  TTS, TwinScan, Dynojet....

Have fun tuning

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Check out this trace now.  I put the VE Front and Rear to the same scale.  Notice the difference in the VE Front and Rear but the Duty Cycle Front and Rear are the same.  That sure looks like a code bust.  Or at least an undocumented quirk.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20Issue%20Trace.png

I also added the AFR 13.2 line to show the target AFR that the tuner was shooting for in this trace.  Things were going good until he hit this spot in the tune.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

This is interesting.  Look how well the AFR was holding close to the target AFR except at idle.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/AFR%20vs%20Target%20AFR.png

Andy

[FLTRI]

What area in the AFR graph would you make adjustment?

Not sure but I would be looking at where the AFR goes lean for RPMs and 100 KPA MAP then follow the change up in rpms to where the AFR comes back to target.
Disclaimer: This is assuming the sensors are seeing good sampling. But the drop in power looks to be with the lean area.
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Bob, this will all get way more interesting once we get past the basic concepts and move on to looking at data logs with a 1/4 of a million records. This log is only 6100 records.

Plots start looking more like this one with 135,000 records.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/RxpxTuning/Race%20AFR%20Plot.png

Andy

[glens]

The dyno operator may have been very close to the rev limiter when he lifted, but both injectors were still running.  I think we are just finding a simple bust in the tune.  And after all that is exactly what we would be looking for at his point in the tuning process.

Or you may be missing some data that would perfectly explain what went on.  Messing with the calibration just because you saw that might not be prudent.  Best would be replicating it taking a chance you'll get a log showing you what went on.

[whittlebeast]

Or simply hang on a pc5, autotune and lcd 200 and be willing to look.  Rev limiters almost always show up at the 02s.

[whittlebeast]

As a little reminder, this is what banging hard off the rev limiter looks like.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TTS%20Tune%2002.png

Andy

[lt401vette]

Since the update i have had nothing but trouble with the software

Efianalytics have stopped communicating with me in regards to the issue, they keep telling me i have some other software on my computer which is doing something to log file

Worked fine prior to update, since update problems

I use an apple computer, bought a cheap windows XP for winPV and MLVHD, they the only two softwares on pc apart from windows XP operating system

We haven't given up on you..

You can try an old version, it should install fine. It will prompt you to update, tell it no.
I have tried to open your files with 3.4.11 and 3.4 12 and they open the same way there.

We can clearly see why the logs are not opening properly, it seems the Carriage Return and Line feed in the logs you sent us that don't work are quite odd.
Each line is terminated by 2 Carriage Returns and 1 line feed. The normal line ending for PowerVision log files is 1 carriage return and 1 line feed.

We can add special handling to ignore the 2nd Carriage return and will do so if we can not come up with why it is there on your computer, but 1st as we have not seen this with any other users, so it seems to be something specific to your PC or some other software involved, I want to understand how the extra Carriage Return is getting in there.

Brian will stay in communication with you and we will make sure it does work for you even if we do need to simply filter the extra carriage returns.

[glens]

sed will handily fix that problem...

Sounds like a Mac is getting its hands on the files.

[Mirrmu]

thanks, okay re-installed MLVHD things still not right

I will disconnect PV cable from bike and just ride without it for a while, don't even know if there are datalog settings within the Powervision which is altering the .csv log files

will go through a few key on/off cycles, plug everything back in, ride and see what happens

[whittlebeast]

Is the PV running the latest code?  I am guessing this is the PV generating this issue.

Andy

[Mirrmu]

yes, all updated, only the tune database was an older version, all firmware etc is current

[hrdtail78]

https://app.box.com/s/2q763ixqm3a3c2v6gapsyp97nd68f6wa

Can you open and view the above?

[Mirrmu]

file open but takes quite a while to load and be fully operational, much the same as what my logs are

so would be good if MLVHD could have a look at that file of yours hardtail to see if has same faults as mine

thanks for posting it

[whittlebeast]

I am running an older 1.8 mhz, 3 gb windows 7 box.  If I load up MLVHD first, it takes about 5 sec to get the program to load.  Once loaded, I can open Hrdtails78's file in under a second.

Andy

[hrdtail78]

Hows this one.  it's a twin scan log.

https://app.box.com/s/ugyrzhy8u7s7xjw4ce7boc9cio4s1szd

[glens]

At this stage i give the MLVHD a big thumbs down, since the update i have had nothing but trouble with the software

Efianalytics have stopped communicating with me in regards to the issue, they keep telling me i have some other software on my computer which is doing something to log file

Worked fine prior to update, since update problems

I use an apple computer, bought a cheap windows XP for winPV and MLVHD, they the only two softwares on pc apart from windows XP operating system

I'd missed you saying you use an apple computer when I later said:

sed will handily fix that problem...

Sounds like a Mac is getting its hands on the files.

as a reply to:

We haven't given up on you..

You can try an old version, it should install fine. It will prompt you to update, tell it no.
I have tried to open your files with 3.4.11 and 3.4 12 and they open the same way there.

We can clearly see why the logs are not opening properly, it seems the Carriage Return and Line feed in the logs you sent us that don't work are quite odd.
Each line is terminated by 2 Carriage Returns and 1 line feed. The normal line ending for PowerVision log files is 1 carriage return and 1 line feed.

We can add special handling to ignore the 2nd Carriage return and will do so if we can not come up with why it is there on your computer, but 1st as we have not seen this with any other users, so it seems to be something specific to your PC or some other software involved, I want to understand how the extra Carriage Return is getting in there.

Brian will stay in communication with you and we will make sure it does work for you even if we do need to simply filter the extra carriage returns.

For a moment reflect back on the old dot-matrix printers we all used to have.  There are several "unprintable" characters used for control.  A LineFeed character sent to the printer will cause the platen to index the paper to the next line.  A CarriageReturn character sent to the printer will cause the print head to return to the start of the line.  In combination they prepare the print head to continue printing at the beginning of the next line.  Just like with that old mechanical typewriter where you hit the lever which then both fed the paper upwards one line and  back to the beginning of the line.

The same "mechanism" is used to display text on the (console) screen of a computer.  The cursor being directed down one line and/or to the beginning of the line.

Microsoft has always used the CR/LF combination as new-line control in their text files.  Unix uses just the LF character as line separators and Apple uses (or at least historically has used) just the CR character.

The different systems handle things differently in conjunction with the way they were designed.  In a strictly literal sense, the three methods would "print" like:

"This is a string of textCRLF-----------------------"

Code Select Expand

This is a string of text
------------------------

"This is a string of textLF-----------------------"

Code Select Expand

This is a string of text
                        -----------------------

and "This is a string of textCR-----------------------"
This is a string of text

I see mismatches of the different mechanisms all the time.  It often appears in the source of web pages where more than one system has been used to set up the way the pages are created.  Web browsers have been designed to "just do the right thing" in the face of various end-of-line conventions.

I suspect your Apple computer is somehow modifying the files by adding the extra end-of-line control characters.  Try collecting a log and not letting anything Apple touch the file and see what happens for you.

EFI Analytics should probably take a cue from web browsers, but different operating systems should also not assume anything about and make adjustments to the data they're handling.

I've played with MLV in days gone by, but to me it's not worth any cash outlay and once they went to nagging and limited functionality I said "goodbye".

[Mirrmu]

i use a windows XP pc for winPV (Powervision software) and MLVHD only, I bought this PC as I was using a mate's for the winPV, they the only 2 software on computer

it only gets switched on when I connect Powervision for tune and logs, I use Apple for all other computer needs

for a DIY'er the MLVHD is a great program, I had no need to buy Excel to view the logs in and for $40US its not expensive, there just something not right with my logs/software things at the moment

[whittlebeast]

Hows this one.  it's a twin scan log.

https://app.box.com/s/ugyrzhy8u7s7xjw4ce7boc9cio4s1szd

Here is the VE correction table if you are doing a MAP based tune.  Note that the MAP has been converted to KPA.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Twin%20Scan%20S_D%20Correction%20Multipliers.PNG

If you were doing a TPS based tune, this would be the correction table.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Twin%20Scan%20A_N%20Correction%20Multipliers.PNG

Have fun tuning

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is the AFRs trying to hit the AFR Target.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Twin%20Scan%20Target%20AFR.PNG

[FLTRI]

Here is the AFRs trying to hit the AFR Target.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Twin%20Scan%20Target%20AFR.PNG

Andy,
Got any idea why the t/p and the data looks nervous...except the WOT but there seems to be more than one WOT t/p. WTFS?
Since there is no scaling to refer to it's hard to quantify but that's some crappy looking data...unless the sampling is so slow it makes the data look like stair steps?
Bob

[whittlebeast]

In that log, it appears that the the data was collected at 4 per sec.  Slow but workable.  I have no idea what brand dyno or the capabilities of that dyno are.

I find data from the street or track far more telling as to what the motor really does.

Did you guys know that MLV can open several logs at a time?  This is great for combining several rides into one view.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Bob

Add a few filters and it is fairly apparent that you have hit the capabilities limits of the dyno.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Twin%20Scan%20RPM%20MAP%20Throttling.PNG

Andy

[hrdtail78]

Four frames a second is pretty much the norm.  If using WB's.  It is the norm.  these company's can BS all they want about speeding things up.  Talk about how things are faster in the back ground of their system yada yada yada.  The truth is different.   

[FLTRI]

Bob

Add a few filters and it is fairly apparent that you have hit the capabilities limits of the dyno.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Twin%20Scan%20RPM%20MAP%20Throttling.PNG

Andy

Andy,
While I understand you do not have a dyno and your tuning comes from a desk and computer, discounting the value of controlled testing utilizing a dyno to measure changes and comparisons sounds...well, uninformed.

I do agree on road testing has diagnostic value for those niggling issues that seem to only show on the street.

How do you quantify (power improvement/loss) tuning changes without a dyno to measure performance?

Why do virtually all serious race teams utilize dynos, both brake type (engine) as well as chassis type (inertial) for their R&D, then go to the track to verify those changes?

Please continue to show us your created graphs but stop telling us you can only diagnose tuning issues by recording hours of on road running.

Explaining how you look at on-road data is fine and dandy but dismissing proper dyno testing as inadequate is...well just not true.
Thanks,
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Bob, I have friends that run data acquisition for Pro Drag race, pro stock car and Indy car teams.  They spend millions each year trying to get their Dyno program to match the data they got on Thursday morning testing.  The friend that is on the stock car team told me his car is worth twice as much on Thursday as it is worth on Sunday.  The difference is the value of the data loggers that he can run on test day.

I do use a dyno when fine tuning exhaust systems or cam timing when looking for the best compromise on that stuff.  Fueling is on done on track as the heat and aero issues found in the real world are way too difficult to duplicate on a dyno.

Most of these guys I happen to know, run Megasquirts on their street toys and look at the data on MLV.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Bob, I have friends that run data acquisition for Pro Drag race, pro stock car and Indy car teams.  They spend millions each year trying to get their Dyno program to match the data they got on Thursday morning testing.  The friend that is on the stock car team told me his car is worth twice as much on Thursday as it is worth on Sunday.  The difference is the value of the data loggers that he can run on test day.

I do use a dyno when fine tuning exhaust systems or cam timing when looking for the best compromise on that stuff.  Fueling is on done on track as the heat and aero issues found in the real world are way too difficult to duplicate on a dyno.

Most of these guys I happen to know, run Megasquirts on their street toys and look at the data on MLV.

Andy

SOP from my experience is top teams use a dyno to do their r&d then go to the track to verify and fine tune.
I doubt you will see top teams recording hours of data in order to tune their EFI systems at the track.
If there is some anomoly that occurs after long periods of time I can appreciate huge data logs.
Or to see long term trends longer data logs are needed.
I just can't agree that the only way to properly tune a Harley is to ride the bike for hours to collect data. With rare exception, a couple hours on a dyno run by a qualified tuner and device will provide a great running bike.
Keep sharing just try not to discount proper dyno R&D and tuning in order to "sell" huge MLV data logs.
Bob

[hrdtail78]

Bob,

What program are you using to view Vision logs?  How about twin scan logs?   Vision doesn't offer anything and the TS log view is real basic.  TTS?  Well, it has a great program for that, but the others don't.

[Jamie Long]

PV logs can be viewed in Dynojet Power Core which can be downloaded here http://www.dynojet.com/Downloads/Downloads.aspx?ProdType=Dyno-Software-Firmware-Other

[glens]

... but that's some crappy looking data...unless the sampling is so slow it makes the data look like stair steps?

Crappy?  No!  It's spit out values at a faster-than-collected rate goodness delivered right to your display!

Just what you want to use to derive tuning changes, right?

[FLTRI]

PV logs can be viewed in Dynojet Power Core which can be downloaded here http://www.dynojet.com/Downloads/Downloads.aspx?ProdType=Dyno-Software-Firmware-Other

Nice logger.
Bob

[FLTRI]

... but that's some crappy looking data...unless the sampling is so slow it makes the data look like stair steps?

Crappy?  No!  It's spit out values at a faster-than-collected rate goodness delivered right to your display!

Just what you want to use to derive tuning changes, right?

Lol! Nicely put!
Bob

[hrdtail78]

Here is the AFRs trying to hit the AFR Target.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Twin%20Scan%20Target%20AFR.PNG

Andy,
Got any idea why the t/p and the data looks nervous...except the WOT but there seems to be more than one WOT t/p. WTFS?
Since there is no scaling to refer to it's hard to quantify but that's some crappy looking data...unless the sampling is so slow it makes the data look like stair steps?
Bob

I might of had way too much coffee?  This is a 009 SE cal.  The AFR target is set to how I want it to run, but the area I will be running CL is set to 14.  The rest of the table is normal.  I started at 2500 and held with brake.  I then held 80,70,60...... Set brake to 2750 and held 80,70,60,.......  I went up to 5000 or 5500 and then I jump to bottom of scale.  1000, 1125, 1250 and so on.  After I get all that.  Looks like a bit of cool down at idle and then roll ons in the 90 and 100 kpa.  My goal is to hit as many cells as I can to map VE's with.  Data is being collect at 4 frames a second.  Same rate as the vision log I posted.

[FLTRI]

Jason,
Is that your data? That accounts for the stair steps. I thought this may one of Andy's mega logs.
That certainly explains it.
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Hrdtail78

You are doing a fairly decent job of achieving your goal.

Bob, are you trying to prove that no tuning is possible from a 1/4 sec data rate?

Andy

[FLTRI]

Hrdtail78

You are doing a fairly decent job of achieving your goal.

Bob, are you trying to prove that no tuning is possible from a 1/4 sec data rate?

Andy

No, I was thinking this was one of your typical road tune data logs but it isn't. It's a step tune on a dyno...much different in looks.
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Bob,  non dyno data looks more like this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnF_y1FfzA

This data is from a fairly snappy motor in this log.

Andy

[hrdtail78]

Jason,
Is that your data? That accounts for the stair steps. I thought this may one of Andy's mega logs.
That certainly explains it.
Bob

Yes, This is the data I posted up yesterday.  What isn't seen with these screen shots is you can play the data.  This will show the scaling. 

I have played around with the DJ's power core.  It is familar and has all the familar problems of DJ missing the mark.  Graph view is basicly the same as the generated table winpep7 puts out.  Not a strip chart.  It also needs to let me change colors of the graph.  Light red and dark red are sometime hard to tell about.  But we can see where DJ is going with RT and vision.

[whittlebeast]

https://app.box.com/s/2q763ixqm3a3c2v6gapsyp97nd68f6wa

Can you open and view the above?

Jamie, can you open the log with the PV software that was posted a few pages back?  It is a PV log?

If you can, what is the trick?

Andy

[Jamie Long]

https://app.box.com/s/2q763ixqm3a3c2v6gapsyp97nd68f6wa

Can you open and view the above?

Jamie, can you open the log with the PV software that was posted a few pages back?  It is a PV log?

If you can, what is the trick?

Andy

Power Core > Data Center > Import .csv > choose the file you would like to view. The file you noted opened fine for me, here is a screenshot

[hrdtail78]

I had to find my file through tree view.  Using the open button I was getting an error code.

[whittlebeast]

Why do virtually all serious race teams utilize dynos, both brake type (engine) as well as chassis type (inertial) for their R&D, then go to the track to verify those changes?

Because they have many millions to spend.  Most people do not.

[whittlebeast]

Bob, feel free to post up a log off a motor you have tuned and let's take a look at how you did.  That way you trust the data.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

I found a fairly big street log off a fairly well tuned Harley that was never on a dyno.  This was about 70 min of riding at .25 hz.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/70%20Min%20Street%20Log.png

Here is 140 min log at .25 hz  Same rider but his other bike.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/140%20Min%20Street%20Log.png

Andy

[FLTRI]

I found a fairly big street log off a fairly well tuned Harley that was never on a dyno.  This was about 70 min of riding at .25 hz.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/70%20Min%20Street%20Log.png

Here is 140 min log at .25 hz  Same rider but his other bike.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/140%20Min%20Street%20Log.png

Andy

So what did you do to correct the obvious tuning issues? Specifically.
I don't have any logs from my bike as I tune it on the dyno using live readings.

[whittlebeast]

What issues are you referring to?

[whittlebeast]

Hopefully someday we can get past this basic stuff and move on to the cool stuff.  Like what is the difference between MAP based tuning and TPS based tuning?  When does it matter?  What about doing both at the same time, TPS and MAP based?

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAP%20vs%20TPS%20Based%20Tuning.png

Andy

[FLTRI]

What issues are you referring to?

It's obviois..isn't it?
Bob

[whittlebeast]

No  It is not obvious.

[FLTRI]

So no tuning issues with this bike?
Bob

[whittlebeast]

No issues that jump out at me.  The MAPxRPM vs Duty cycle is a fairly tight line.  Where it dips down a little looks right in line with the VEs in that area.  That makes sense.  Plenty of data making it unlikely that there any holes are in the tune.....

I could add the Histogram looking at the average 02 volts at every tuning point.  I looked at that and found the average o2 in the cruise area has right at 650 mv where he spent the majority of his riding time even though the bike was running open loop.

Looks good to me.

Andy

[Sunny Jim]

I have updated my MLVHD but not histogram feature is apparent. Am I missing something?

[whittlebeast]

That is the same bike that generated this pair of plots.  I would be able to tune that SD or AN as it is fairly well behaved in both plots.  In most of the systems I play with, you have the choice of SD, AN or MAF or any combination of any two.  Some have the ability to change systems on the fly based on sensor failures.  You can yank the MAP sensor off line and all you feel is a stumble and a CEL comes up on the dash.  Way cool stuff.   

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAP%20vs%20TPS%20Based%20Tuning.png

Andy

[whittlebeast]

I have updated my MLVHD but not histogram feature is apparent. Am I missing something?

Does you second row of tabs look like this screen shot?

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20Issue%20Histogram.png

<Log Viewer> <Ignition Log Viewer> <Scatter Plots> <Histogram/Table Generator>

Does the top blue bar read like mine?

Andy

[Mirrmu]

i wonder if any coincidence with Dynojet having its own data viewer that my logs aren't working in MLVHD

[whittlebeast]

It may be related to a PV update but I seriously doubt that it was intended.   I can only think of one company known to do that sort of thing.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Two more interesting plots of the street tuned bike.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/140%20Min%20Street%20Log%20O2%20Compare.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/140%20Min%20Street%20Log%20VE%20Compare.png

The second plot raises all sorts of questions as to what is going on in the Harley Hidden Tables

Notice that the scales are the same front and rear.  The rear VEs are way higher but the Duty Cycle Rear is way less.

Andy

[Sunny Jim]

No Andy, I have all but the histogram header. I am paid up and registered, as well as completing the upgrade. I do like the histogram feature.

[whittlebeast]

It sounds like you have the non HD version.  What does it say in the blue bar at the top?

[Sunny Jim]

Version 3.4.11

[whittlebeast]

It sounds like you need to update the software.

[Sunny Jim]

I got it! Thanks Mate!!!!!

[FLTRI]

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/140%20Min%20Street%20Log%20VE%20Compare.png

...plot raises all sorts of questions as to what is going on in the Harley Hidden Tables

Notice that the scales are the same front and rear.  The rear VEs are way higher but the Duty Cycle Rear is way less.

Andy

Can you post the strip charts showing VEs and associated duty cycles?
Seems it would be a lot easier to see VE's line going in one direction while the associated duty cycle's line is going the opposite direction.
Should be a direct connection from changinging VEs to injector outputs.
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Regarding MAPxRPM and if it is a valid observation


This is a Toyota truck that has Fuel Flow, MAF, MAP and RPM
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/ToyotaTruck.png

This is a Honda truck that has Fuel Flow, MAF, MAP and RPM  Not that it has VVT
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Honda_VVT_TruckV6.png

And here is a Ford Twin Turbo Truck  If did not have MAF in the log.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/FordTurboTruck.png

All three of these data logs were at about 2 samples per sec and were logged on like 5 hour trips.  The Ford truck was pulling a 6000 lb trailer.  Some of the log was in the mountains.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Bob, I'm not sure what you are trying to do.

MAPxRPM is essentially an air flow rate
Duty Cycle is a fuel flow rate (If you correct for the injector dead time in some systems)

VE is a unit-less lookup Multiplier

Generally....   

Pulse Width at the Injector = [ MAP * (RPM,MAP VE Lookup) * (RPM,TPS VE Lookup) * (IAT Temp Correction) * (Baro Correction)  * (AE_DE Correction) * (Injector Size Constant) * (Engine Temp Warmup Correction) * (RPM,MAP Target AFR Lookup) * (RPM,MAP Long Term O2 Fuel Trim Lookup) * (Short Term O2 Sensor Correction) ] + (Injector Dead Time)

Duty Cycle = (Pulse Width) / (Time for one Engine Cycle)

Note that in a pure Speed Density system, the term (RPM,TPS VE Lookup) is all 1's in every cell.  In a pure Alph-N system, the term (RPM,MAP VE Lookup) is all 1's in every cell.  The fun systems run both lookup tables at the same time.  I do this on some of my PC5 installs.

Andy

[Sunny Jim]

Mr Beast, now that I have the histogram up and running, and I am using various fields to test this feature, I find my fields demonstrate the Lambda value . However, I would like it to demonstrate the AFR value in place of the Lambda read out. How do I alter this.?

[whittlebeast]

It is very easy in MLVHD to create a new field from any other field.

Under  <Calculated Fields>  <Custom Fields> < Add Custom Field>

In the top box type the name of the new field.  For this example, let's name it   AFR Front

In the bottom box, type the formula.  For example...

[Lambda Front] * 14.7

Any field name that you already have, can be used to create a new field.  All fields must be typed exactly as shown including all caps and spaces.

Under <Calculated Fields>  <Fixed Field Min and Max> you can set the scale for all graphing.  I like to use for AFR related things, to a Min of 11 and a Max of 15.  Existing fields must have the square brackets before and after the field name.

Hope this helps and have fun tuning

Andy

[whittlebeast]

One more cool feature is that you can save your settings thru <File> <Settings> <Export Settings> and send your really cool settings that work on your system to friends that also use the same system.  The names change from one system to the next so sharing between different systems is a little more tricky but very possible.

Have fun

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is a field that I like to create that is useful

I nave a field called Throttling

I define it as    [TP]<0?0:10*Math.sqrt([TP])

the way you read this is

If the throttle position  is less than 0, show a 0
else display 10 times the square root of the throttle position

Here is an example of the throttling formula.  It can be really helpful on motors with big throttle bodies seeing what is going on.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Throttling.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Throttling2.png

Andy

[whittlebeast]

<<<<<<  Geek Alert  >>>>>>>>

This is an interesting plot that shows at any given RPM and Throttle position the motor will generate a MAP value.  The Throttling field that I created in post 110 simply expands the lower and midrange section of this plot.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Throttling3.png

Way cool stuff

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Bob

I think this is what you were asking to see.  When the VE is low, you can see the effect on PW.  The MAP line and the PW line split.  When the VE is High, the lines are close to parallel.

Notice how the MAPxRPM vs Duty Cycle lines stay fairly well synced as the should on a well tuned motor.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/VE%20Effect.png

Keep in mind the formula in post 116 that is driving all of this stuff.

The more you look, the more you question and learn.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[whittlebeast]

powervision logs, i get them from the PV, open MLVHD, open file and they just dont load, it may take 30-40 secs or I have to move through the menu hitting the different tabs, sometimes nothing happens

in log viewer the charts all appear but thats it, 5min log runs but nothing to play

prior to update everything worked fine

My MLV HD just automatically did an update and I noticed your log loads right up now.

Andy

[Mirrmu]

thanks, will hook up to internet and see what happens

[whittlebeast]

Just for fun.....

Here is a BIG log off a modern MAF fueled motor.  This motor was logging a 40 hz running a HPTuners logger.  Check out the difference if the motor was controlled with a MAF compared to controlling it with a MAPxRPM based fueling.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20Fueling%2001.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAF%20Fueling%2001.png

Have fun tuning

Andy

[joe_lyons]

Andy how can I import the X & Y axis data from tune?  It shows the button here but IDK where to load it at or if it will even load harley based tune files.

[whittlebeast]

Joe, that feature works for one of the many other tuning software packages MLV HD works with.  Unfortunately it does not work with any of the common Harley options.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Joe, you need to add a filter for the scatter plots

PW Equals 0   and make that

[PW Front] < 1 or [PW Rear] < 1

The names in the brackets need to be exactly as they are in you PV Logs.

If you want to try to get tricky

[PW Front] < 1 or [PW Rear] < 1 or [PW Front-1] < 1 or [PW Rear-1] < 1 or [PW Front-2] < 1 or [PW Rear-2] < 1

That also takes the record back 1 or 2 records

Turn that filter on and off in scatter plots and the trailing throttle (in a down shift) will come and go.

Andy

[joe_lyons]

Cool thanks.

[whittlebeast]

For a Power Vision log, the formula works out to...

[INJ PW F] < 1 or [INJ PW R] < 1 or [INJ PW F-1] < 1 or [INJ PW R-1] < 1 or [INJ PW F-2] < 1 or [INJ PW R-2] < 1

[whittlebeast]

Here is how you would write a filter to throw out data when the AFR is out of range.  For example, some AFRs report the AFR as say 5000 when in reality, you really don't want to see this data and you surly do not want this data in AFR averages.

create a field named.....

AFR Out of Range

and make the formula....

[AFR Front] > 18.5 or [AFR Front] < 11 or [AFR Rear] > 18.5 or [AFR Rear] < 11

This would throw out all data when either AFR exceeds 18.5 or is less than 11.

Andy

[FL-HX2]

Hello,

I just have a question:
I am quite impressed with the features of MegaLogViewer - is there any possibility of viusalizing .hdx - Recording files recorded with the SESTP?

Thanks a lot for your answers in advance,

Dieter

[whittlebeast]

Email the developer.  A request and a sample file.  I know he is considering it.  The more requests he gets, the more likely he will take the time.

Andy

[a2wheeler]

I downloaded the HD version for a free look at it. But it will not read my DM3 files. I also can't find an email address to ask questions.

[whittlebeast]

The email there is support@efianalytics.com

Right now you need to use the export utility in Data Master to create a CSV file.  That file will open right up.  Email the original DM3 file and the exported CSV file and ask them to look into creating a custom loader for DM3 files.

Andy

[a2wheeler]

seems odd as the website says it supports dm3 in native state. I'm guessing what you are saying is the free version does not. I'll give it a try. And I'll send a message to them.

edit - thanks for the email address. I did find it on their website - in the About section.

CSV works but a limit of 400 records with free version.

[whittlebeast]

seems odd as the website says it supports dm3 in native state. I'm guessing what you are saying is the free version does not. I'll give it a try. And I'll send a message to them.

edit - thanks for the email address. I did find it on their website - in the About section.

CSV works but a limit of 400 records with free version.

As I recall it does work with early DM3 files but at some point, the layout changed.  I think, with the MT9 generated files.

They just need to remap the fields.

Andy

[jamn]

Here is the entire 350000 records data log rolled into an average AFR for each tuning cell.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Harley%20Engine%20Trace%202%20Histogram.png

Andy

Andy

How do you display Average AFR per cell? Is there a formula to insert into MLV?

[whittlebeast]

The 4th tab is histogram,  that is the average of Z field all the times that the X and Y conditions were met.

Is that what you are asking?

[Sarhan]

Andy

The AFR format did not work, i think because its shows as AFR1 & AFR2 in PV log, I have created the AFR1 and tried to combined both in same format that you showed but also did not work, I create AFR1 separate but it did not work with AFR2 same format??     

[whittlebeast]

I have run into that.

Submit the log and what you are trying to do to  support@efianalytics.com

Andy

[jamn]

The 4th tab is histogram,  that is the average of Z field all the times that the X and Y conditions were met.

Is that what you are asking?

Oh, I see. I thought the AFR1 was a calculated field you were using to gain the average per cell.

Thanks

[whittlebeast]

In MLV HD the field [AFR1] would be the current value of AFR1

[AFR1-2] Would be the value of AFR1 two records back

[AFR1+2] would be the AFR two records ahead.  It is possible to use these for writing a custom averaging formula.

Look under the help file for "smoothing" for some built in formulas for this sort of thing.

Andy

[jamn]

Thanks Andy.

[whittlebeast]

There has been a discussion on a different thread regarding Acceleration Enrichment and Decel Enleanment and how it is triggered.  Here is AE and DE graphed from a TTS system.  A positive MapDot is when the MAP is climbing.  A negative MapDot happens when the MAP is falling like when the throttle is snapped closed.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Harley_AE3.png

The yellow lines indicate when the code is showing when AE or DE is active.

At the bottom is the o2 sensor. This is 10 sec worth of data as seen at the bottom of the screen.

Also see http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Harley_AE2.png to see what the injectors do in response to this stuff.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[whittlebeast]

When you play with this stuff with more adjustable software packages, you will find that TPSdot or rate of change of TPS tends to be better at predicting AE and DE.   MAPdot tends to be better at quantifying the amount of AE/DE that is required.

Google X-Tau to get more information on this sort of thing.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

<<<<<   Geek Alert  >>>>>>>>>>

For the people that are trying to get their head around all this autotune/data stuff here is how the O2 data relates.

If you create in MegaLogViewer HD a field named

VE New Calced

and define that field as

([Front AFF]*[Front CLI]*[VE Front])/10000

and then plot that new field over the top of  the VE New Front field that is in the Power Vision logs you get

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/VE%20New%20Calc.png

Notice how the VE New Front tracks almost exactly with the new calculated field.

Andy

[glens]

Yeah?  It'd probably track even closer if the data fields didn't get replicated / out-of-time-sync with each other.

I believe the tuning-from-log-files really needs some particular filtering mechanisms in place to be most useful.

At any rate, I thought that cipherin' was kind of common knowledge.