What do you think about this carbon removal technique?

[les]

I've never done this, so asking for opinions.  Yes, I have carbon problems.

1) Remove spark plugs.
2) Bring one piston to TDC.
3) Fill with Seafoam; let set for a couple of days.
4) Suck out fluid; blow out remaining fluid with compressed air.
5) Repeat 1-4 with other cylinder.
6) Start engine and take it out for a hard ride.

[rbabos]

I wouldn't use compressed air or it can force crap down past the ring gaps. Too slow for me too. Water spray seems the quickest and most effective but best left to someone who has an understanding of what's going on. It has it's risks if not done right. Otherwise very quick and effective.
Ron

[Buffalo]

Pretty sure that 3-4ozs of Seafoam wil bleed down into the crank and probably a lot sooner than a couple of days!! The Seafoam would remove all traces of oil everywhere it touched, including cylinderwalls, rings. Excess may even end up in main bearings.
If I attempted to clean pistons this way, I'd use 1/4 to 1/2oz, let it sit for 2-4 hrs, then start the engine.
My preferred method is to run 4oz or so in each tank full of gas for 2-3 cycles.
IMO, you want the carbon to slowly dissolve and be sent out the exhaust port. This worked great on my S&S T124 last summer. fwiw Buffalo

[les]

Ok, so all the things you guys said confirm the bad things I suspected might happen.  So, I won't do it.

I have used water by setting a garden hose on mist and spraying into the throttle body while I rev it.  But the carbon seems to be very stubborn.

I have not run 4 oz. in the tank through a few cycles.  I'll try that when the weather gets better.

Thanks for the responses. 

[Ohio HD]

Les, when you do the water removal process, get a spray bottle that will emit a fine misted spray. Hold the throttle to about 2,000 RPM on a hot motor. Spray a little, stop, spray more, stop. You don't want to dump water in. I also use Sea Foam in the fuel tank every three months or so. If you run them pretty hard, they don't get carbon build up easily.

[ThumperDeuce]

I've posted this before.  I usually mix the seafoam 50/50 with water.  Carefully spray it in the tb while running the engine so as not to hydrolock it.  The steam breaks up the carbon and the seafoam lubes the cylinders.  At least that is my understanding.  I then go for a 20 - 30 minute ride and change the oil.

[Leed]

Sea Foam also makes a product specifically for what you want to do.  It's called Deep Creep.  If I remember correctly from another site you spray it into the throttle body on a hot engine until the engine stalls.  Then wait an hour or so and restart.  Should smoke like a SOB when you first start it up so do it outside.

[Ohio HD]

Yeah, he Deep Creep is the same stuff that GM uses called Top Engine cleaner. I was always told to only use that when there was really heavy deposits. And the oil should be changed afterwards too.

I was never a fan of stalling the motor with fluids though, gotta be careful to not hydro lock it, and bend a rod.

[les]

I've posted this before.  I usually mix the seafoam 50/50 with water.  Carefully spray it in the tb while running the engine so as not to hydrolock it.  The steam breaks up the carbon and the seafoam lubes the cylinders.  At least that is my understanding.  I then go for a 20 - 30 minute ride and change the oil.

You mentioned that the Seafoam lubes the cylinders.  In an earlier post, it was mentioned that the Seafoam (if I poured it in and left it a couple of hours) would drain down and leave the cylinder walls void of lubrication.   Is Seafoam somewhat of a lubricant?  If so, then perhaps it washing the oil away might not be such a bad thing during the initial startup?

[mrmike]

I have some seafoam in a spray bottle, the day before I do an oil change I get the engine running and warmed up bring the rpm's up a bit and spray some in until it stumbles, let it run a bit and repeat a few more times. Then I spray it heavier until it stalls, I let the bike sit over night and the next morning I start it up and take it out for a ride to warm up the oil for the oil change, smokes quite a bit for about 5 min or so.

I do the same thing to my 95 GMC pickup.

Ray I'm pretty sure the motor stalls because the seafoam or water even for that matter is noncombustible, though you are right, a person could get carried away and cause some damage if as you say they didn't understand what's going on.

I do the same thing to my snowblower but with WD-40 when spring time comes sort of like a cheap carb fogger.

Those of you that have to ask what a snowblower is can eat a.....


Mike

[ThumperDeuce]

SeaFoam is made from petroleum distiliates, naptha and iso-propyl alcohol.  I can't find the link to where I got my recommended usage from.  But I think the logic is sound that the steam from the water will blast off the carbon deposits and the petroleum components from the SeaFoam will add some lubrication into the process.  Longer term usage I think would thin out the oil on the cylinder walls.

[koko3052]

"Deep Creep" is a rust buster made by the same people as Sea Foam.
If you look up the history of Sea Foam, you will have a better understanding of why & for what application it was made.

[No Cents]

put a tablespoon of Marvels Mystery Oil in your gas tank at every other fill up. Ride as normal.
Three or four tanks of fuel ran thru the bike...and the carbon will be gone. 

Ray

[rbabos]

I use 2.5 ounces MMO per 5 gal in the V rod now and then. Same with the softail I use to own.
Ron

[No Cents]

I use 2.5 ounces MMO per 5 gal in the V rod now and then. Same with the softail I use to own.
Ron

 

[N-gin]

I snuff out the engine with seafoam at idle let it sit for 5 minutes. Restart and spray into throttlebody ..last ime i did this before takin the engine apart. Cleaned it pretty darn good. Piston ringswere definatly clean. Pistons stillhad carbon in some places but they were stock pistons.

[86fxwg]

That is exactly how every car manufacturer wants it done. Except for letting it sit four days,usually just over night.
But any that has been posted works fine too.
Water trick works great but as said can be tricky!
86

[HD/Wrench]

Kroil is some cool stuff if you want to put something on the piston dome.  I have used it as a test with pistons on the bench coat the piston and leave it over the weekend the carbon is almost all turned to a gel like coating and it comes right off..  I have used it to clean guns for years works great for heavy fouled barrels

[les]

I sent this to Seafoam tech support:  "I have a Harley-Davidson motorcycle.  I am experiencing carbon build up in the combustion chamber, especially on the top of the pistons.  Your literature talks about "fogging" the engine.  Is it appropriate to spray some Seafoam Spray onto the pistons through the spark plug hole, let set for an overnight, and then run the engine to expel the carbon?  What precautions should I take?"

Their Technical Services Director reply:  "Yes, Sea Foam is used in that way quite often. Before you start the engine, rotate the engine to get excess fluid out of the cylinders then reinstall the plugs and start engine in a well ventilated area."

[yankee dog]

Try mopar combustion chamber cleaner. Can get at any dealer. The stuff really works....google it for good info. YD

[02roadcling]

The BEST product available is what somebody uses. If you don't believe me, then just ask them!

   cling 

[Tsani]

Actually I prefer my method (Note the dremel in the back ground), my chemical of choice.

[jam65]

Kroil is some cool stuff if you want to put something on the piston dome.  I have used it as a test with pistons on the bench coat the piston and leave it over the weekend the carbon is almost all turned to a gel like coating and it comes right off..  I have used it to clean guns for years works great for heavy fouled barrels

That is some pretty good stuff Steve. I bought it for guns also but have seen other uses for it.

[slypig]

Question.  What causes carbon build up?  The only bike I've ever decarboned was a 1970 something Kawasaki 750 triple which was a 2 stroke and I understand the carbon build up from the oil on a 2 stroke. I've had big twin Harleys since the mid '70's and never a carbon problem and why mostly bikes and not cars?

Sly

[02roadcling]

Kroil penetrates gaps into the millionths!!

http://www.kanolabs.com/

   cling

[Tsani]

Question.  What causes carbon build up?  The only bike I've ever decarboned was a 1970 something Kawasaki 750 triple which was a 2 stroke and I understand the carbon build up from the oil on a 2 stroke. I've had big twin Harleys since the mid '70's and never a carbon problem and why mostly bikes and not cars?

Sly

Carbon is a combustion by product. Cars do develop carbon. A lot of bikes are run pig rich which helps carbon build up. Also lugging the bike a lot will help build it IMHO. A lot of car run a lot leaner thus reducing the chance of carbon build up but they also have water cooling system to keep em from having a melt down. The carbon build up on my buddies bike was actually quite thin except the rear where he had oil being sucked in via the intake vale seal. Carbon happens.

[Don D]

Kroll is a good product. When used through the TB straight on a hot motor so much that at idle you stall it and let it sit an hour, roll it with no plugs in then refire it and take it out for a hard run the motor cleans right up. Then change the oil

[Ultrashovel]

Carbon removal used to be a big problem when we were using heavily leaded fuel. It made big deposits of carbon everywhere. I haven't noticed much carbon buildup on my bike, at least nothing that would indicate it.

In the old days people used to "blow out the carbon" by heading down the road for a mile or two at WFO. It didn't do much, but you felt a lot better afterwards, particularly if you had a bitchy woman back home. LOL.

I would avoid putting chemicals into my engine at all cost. JMO.

[HogMike]

Am I understanding some are having issues with excessive carbon??
Newer bike?
Modified?
Just for reference, 2010 with 50K miles, heads removed for cam/gasket change.
Never did any sort of carbon removal.

[HD/Wrench]

HOGMIKE  I would say that its been a lean condition. Complete lack of color in the chamber is another indication of heat/ lean.  Do you have pictures of the cylinder color wise and pistons in the ring land area . Yes today  running an engine lean produces heat, heat vaporizes anything that did not burn. Up to a point as to hot it gets

[les]

Am I understanding some are having issues with excessive carbon??
Newer bike?
Modified?
Just for reference, 2010 with 50K miles, heads removed for cam/gasket change.
Never did any sort of carbon removal.

Some of the carbon on the top of my pistions was actually pounded flat from smashing against the quench area.  Typical symptoms:  Sounds like lifter chatter when cold (5 to 10 minutes), absolutely no lifter chatter type noise no matter how (melt down) hot it gets.  Also, run the bike until hot, shut off engine, gradually cool engine with hose set on mist (about 15 minutes) until you've removed the heat out of the cylinders, start engine and you get a lot of the lifter chatter type noise until it gets hot and then goes away again.  Finally, run bike until hot, stop and have dinner, about two hours come out and start engine and get that chatter.  All of those highly indicate your carbon is touching the top.

[Ultrashovel]

Am I understanding some are having issues with excessive carbon??
Newer bike?
Modified?
Just for reference, 2010 with 50K miles, heads removed for cam/gasket change.
Never did any sort of carbon removal.

Looks OK to me.

[HogMike]

HOGMIKE  I would say that its been a lean condition. Complete lack of color in the chamber is another indication of heat/ lean.  Do you have pictures of the cylinder color wise and pistons in the ring land area . Yes today  running an engine lean produces heat, heat vaporizes anything that did not burn. Up to a point as to hot it gets

More details: this bike had the "stage 1" exhaust system, mufflers, a/c change that most do, it was also on the dyno with the TTS. (Had a re-tune after the cam/gasket upgrade).
"Lean is mean" right? LOL
I never pulled the barrels to see the pistons, but the bores looked fine.
Never had a issue of "too lean" over 90K miles.
I'd have to go back to check my map to see where the mixture was set in the closed loop area, but I remember it being enriched a bit, maybe to the limit of closed loop, just don't remember.
I DO remember the bike ran just fine and was well mannered.
IMHO there is a fine line as to "too lean" tune. depends a bunch on HOW you ride!

[WhipLash96]

put a tablespoon of Marvels Mystery Oil in your gas tank at every other fill up. Ride as normal.
Three or four tanks of fuel ran thru the bike...and the carbon will be gone. 

Ray

I do this often but I also t as ke a spray bottle of water and while the bike is running and air cleaner off, I boost the rpms and spray water in the carb. A steam clean along with MMO.

[CW#]

We used to spray carbon tetrachloride in the carb with the engine revving when carbon build up was more common in the pre EPA days. Worked great.

C#

[HD/Wrench]

hog 




BG has a very nice canister for injector cleaning and a misting nozzle to clean intake / plenum , valves ( DI vs non DI) We sell & use the amsoil cleaner 3 oz in every service for the customer. Part of the package. 

[Mountainman streetbob]

Kroil is some cool stuff if you want to put something on the piston dome.  I have used it as a test with pistons on the bench coat the piston and leave it over the weekend the carbon is almost all turned to a gel like coating and it comes right off..  I have used it to clean guns for years works great for heavy fouled barrels

[citabria]

If it's that bad, you really should pull the heads, clean them up, check the cylinder condition and change the valve seals.

[les]

If it's that bad, you really should pull the heads, clean them up, check the cylinder condition and change the valve seals.

Why?  I've got nothing to loose by trying to expel the carbon without taking it apart.  If I have to take it apart, then I'll do it.  But if it don't cost me anything to try to dissolve that carbon, why not give it a shot?

[Big Cahuna]

There's a guy with a you tube video that did a good job at showing what he did with his lawn mower's carbon. He used a bore scope to see just how much carbon was on the piston. Then he did the Seafoam trick of using 1/3 of a can directly into the intake. It smoked but removed some of the carbon. I think he did it twice, then he poured the last 1/3 of the can directly into the cylinder and let it sit for a while. Then he cranked the motor over with the plug out, then put the plug back in and fired it up. Then again he took the plug out and used the bore scope again. You could see how much carbon was removed by comparing the pictures he took. It removed about 1/2 the carbon. So by adding more to each tank of gas, it should clean the remaining carbon up. He also tried it with Techron, but it didn't work hardly at all to remove his carbon.,,

[clawdog60]

Kroil is some cool stuff if you want to put something on the piston dome.  I have used it as a test with pistons on the bench coat the piston and leave it over the weekend the carbon is almost all turned to a gel like coating and it comes right off..  I have used it to clean guns for years works great for heavy fouled barrels

Liquid magic.
The oil that creeps.
Stinks bad.