Blockheads Really Do Run Forever.....

[ModelABob]

Just goof'n around again...something I'm good at.

ANF/Ride Safe

[Killer]

How long is forever?

[guido4198]

I only got 185,000 outta the original motor in my '85. 
Maybe I'll have better luck with the '99 we dropped in her.   

[kickstart]

LOVE MY EVO

better gas mileage and less trouble than a TC

BTW I like the new forum

[Caper]

I don't think your gonna see very many Twinkies log that many miles and still have original crank in em. Did a top end hop up on mine at 80K and the bottom end SWL's were within spec with room to spare,well over 100K now still runs like a champ.

[Bruno-Katz Fokkerpilot]

I got 35,000 on my `97 Fatboy, [Hey this is England, it rains alot] Do you think it`s about time to change the lifters yet?

[Caper]

Does your bike still have the stock cam?? I was told the life expectancy of the lifters is around 25,000 miles, but I know some that went a lot longer. If you're religious with oil changes and you don't hear any ticking at start up, you could prolly get more outta them, but yeah, it would be a good time to change them. Unless I was doing a cam swap I wouldn't go in there just for lifters unless I thought they were on the way out.

[Trip]

If they,re the "A" lifters...get them outa there now...25k is pushin it...no matter how many times you've changed your oil...its not an oil related problem.

[ModelABob]

Trip,

What's the skinny on "A" lifters?

AMF/Ride Safe

[Caper]

If they,re the "A" lifters...get them outa there now...25k is pushin it...no matter how many times you,ve changed your oil...its not an oil related problem.

  I think it was 94 HD went to the 86B lifter, but I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure by 97 they were used.
Trip how long do you feel a lifter will last?? Not being a smart azz,just want another opinion.

[Trip]

The A lifters are good for maybe 20k...then the wheels start falling off...the needles will break....sometimes even before 20k....Harley also changed the spring pressure and piston size for the B lifters...you can identify which is which by looking at the valve retainer clips..one is a funky "piece of wire" and the newer one is a righteous Circlip/// { and make sure you change the cam bearing while you,re in there...get that junk INA outa there..stock motor or not)

[ModelABob]

So my '94 FLSTN Softail should have the good "B" lifters in it, right?  I've played the game with lifters going bad on my Pan and it won't no fun!   When I use to ride a lot
I would change lifter rollers every two years no matter how many miles I rode. Hmmmm.....I guess I'll have to pull some pushrod covers before to long and see what's
inside.   Thanks for the info.

AMF/Ride Safe

[Trip]

It "should" have B lifters ..yep...you dont need to loosen the pushrod to check..just clear the oil and look with a flashlight...the retainer will tell you A or B...( assuming you have adjustables)

[Trip]

The one on the right is what you don't want..

[ModelABob]

Trip,

I have no idea if I have adjustables or not, adjustables are not stock, yes/no?  I have
not had this scooter that long (bought it used with an honest looking 16,500 miles on speedo) and have done adsolutely "zero" work on it save for installing a clutch cable e-z pull.  Any other way I can tell?

AMF/Ride Safe

[Trip]

Real easy....pull the pushrod cover up and see if theres a nut on the end of the pushrod(in the lifter block)..if theres no nut and the pushrod is "smooth"..then you,ve got factory pushrods IE:non-adjustables .....either way, if you clear the oil off the lifter ..you should be able to see ....i,d bet you,ve got stock lifters and in 94...they were type B...usually.....any B lifter should be changed at 40-50 anyway ...imo.

[ModelABob]

Trip,

Duh......pull up cover and see if locknot there, Duh! I should have known that, thanks anyway, I appreciate it.  Does Harley sell adjustables or who makes the best aftermarket ones?

AMF/Ride Safe

[Trip]

Yeh...i like the screamin beagles...24TPI..set em at @2.5 ...stay away from the aluminum ones...and dont even think about RecTec!!

[Caper]

Trip,

Duh......pull up cover and see if locknot there, Duh! I should have known that, thanks anyway, I appreciate it.  Does Harley sell adjustables or who makes the best aftermarket ones?

AMF/Ride Safe

  There are adjustable ones and quick install. with the adjustables you still have to remove the rockerboxes to change a cam. The Quick or EZ install you don't you can leave the gas tank, rockers everything alone on the top of the engine. Crane and Andrews have Time savers and EZ install chromoly along with the SE's( I think made by Andrews). If changing the cam and the basecircle is smaller than stock you'd have to go with at least the adjustables.

[Trip]

Nah...HD SE Adjustables can be installed or removed with rocker boxes intact...."some" others, you cannot....

[ModelABob]

Trip & Caper,

Thanks for the "Harley EVO Basic Lifter Instructional Message Campaign For Old Panhead
Riders Who Are Trying To Join The 21st Century".   Sooner then later I'll do some shopp'n for A-O-Justable Steel Valve Train Pole Push Uppers.  Price will be a factor, but I think I'll lean toward scream'n beagles.

AMF/Ride Safe

[Trip]

LOL**************  Panheads Forever!!!!  ...BUT!!!...the EVO engine is, by far now...Harleys best engine...the fufu twinkies will disappear shortly as soon as HD figures out how to stop the new water cooled engines from leaking.......................LMFAO***********LOL* FMR.

[Caper]

You sure got that right Trip!! I PO Twinkie owners all the time when I tell em the EVO is the best and last of the REAL Harleys .  I also own a Twinkie but if one gotta go, I'm keepin the toughest one.
'65 Pan is absolutely my favorite bike and is what got me turned on to Harley's  when I was a kid.
  Ain't no Head like a Panhead!!

[Trip]

LOL***  Yessir!!!...my first pan was an old cop 63 outside oiler...stone stock.........................................................so i chopped it.......................................................somebody shoulda shot me...but back then, Pans and flatheads were a dime a dozen..i only paid 800$ cash for a complete dual point Panhead from the Vagos....later i had some Flattys and Shovels ..a couple more Pans......i,ve been into all of em and broke most of em!! ...The EVO is a great motor...culmination of 103 years, imo.

[fergy1940]

Well I guess IM lucky I had over 95.000 on my original A lifters. Great site by the way.
Ride safe.
Fergy

[Trip]

VERY lucky indeed! ...and i,ll bet those rollers were more damaged than you think.

[Tattoo]

I just paid around $500 to make my lowerend on my 2006 twinkie as tough as a stock EVO.

[Trip]

Bingo!!

[84BikerDude]

Not without removing the rod covers.

[Trip]

Rod covers ? 

[Bruno-Katz Fokkerpilot]

Does your bike still have the stock cam?? I was told the life expectancy of the lifters is around 25,000 miles, but I know some that went a lot longer. If you're religious with oil changes and you don't hear any ticking at start up, you could prolly get more outta them, but yeah, it would be a good time to change them. Unless I was doing a cam swap I wouldn't go in there just for lifters unless I thought they were on the way out.

Hi caper, yes the cam and lifters are still original, i`ve noticed a ticking sound on decel once she`s warmed up which is what prompted me to inquire. Was thinking about installing an EV 27 to compliment the Mikuni 42 but, no way do i want to lose gas mileage as we pay around $7.50 a gallon here. What do you think?

[Mule]

  I blew my friends mind when his hopped up Twinkie fat boy could not out run my Shovel thru the gears getting on the 101 Freeway! He kept sayin all weekend let's go again! I don't like to rap the old Shovel that hard, but once in a while  she likes to show her stuff. My Evo I scored a few months back doesn't have a harley motor  ,So I have no reference  to stock. It is however a lot of fun with the S&S 111 super sidewinder! I put in a new cam and tappets right after I got it as I heard the bad Tappet with a stethascope. It never lost the rollers ,but was close. I have a small collection of bent ,broken and missused parts from over the years dating back to my old 59 Triumph and 66 Bsa...I keep them as a reminder  ...Don't do that again! I hope the S&S last for a while...The  03 CVO screamin Eagle  Duece I had was always having some kind of problem, Mostly knocking the compensator loose. Three times in 5000 miles.... I got tired of Hassling the dealership and their statment " I hear no abnormal noise!"   Mule...

[Caper]

EV27 is a good cam, it likes a bump in compression even more, since it's time to replace the lifters good time to do the cam and inner cam bearing(Torrington needle bearing B138). You can reuse stock rods if the cam base circle is the same as stock if you want to, or go with a set of chromemoly adjustables like Andrews EZ Install or Crane Timesavers or SE  set.Your choice there, but it'll save time and coin on the next lifter replacement a set of Keith Black 9.5:1 or Wiseco 10:1 pistons or you can shave the heads and use thinner gaskets, your call there too. I wouldn't go higher than 10:1
  You may even improve gas  mileage, but you'll prolly be twistin the grip more so it'll be a tradeoff, bigger grin = less mileage.

[Trip]

LOL************************ ...gotta love "fire-breathin" Troubles!! ...EV-27 IS a good cam...and i prefer the Crane 310-B over it....the W-6 is supposed to be even better but i,ve not tried one yet..the 316B is a good Bagger cam also... W/.030 HG.

[Billy]

I Don't recommend going over 9.5:1 with the EV27 and .030" head gaskets.

I'll bet your mileage WILL improve.

[Bruno-Katz Fokkerpilot]

Thanks for the advice there Caper, gonna look into it. 

[Reddog74usa]

Had a Bro that bought a 88 Heritage new in 89 put 100K on it. Changed the oil at 2K regularly. NEVER  even did the base gaskets. Only mods were an S&S Shorty and drag pipes. THATS IT. He maintenaced it well but ran it hard especially when he had a few beers in em. Still ran good when he sold it but you could tell it need a freshinin up. 

[Trip]

The EVO motor is the epitome of 100 years of harley motors.....FINALLY, they got it down right!....so they drop it and invent a psuedo harley motor and jam to cams in it....did someone say "buy short" ?  LOL*

[Buddy WMC]

I'll be planted in the ground before my 93 FXR was ever sold. Put alot of work into her and she's basically been totally rebuilt. Starts first time everytime and runs like the wind, the key is maintenance. As a part time technician, I can tell you plenty of stories about the consequences of that.

Had a chick come in on a softy the other day with both sets of brake pads shot and both master cylinders leaking. She had a new natural finish HD crate engine installed about two years ago. The engine looks like it's 20 years old and what oil was in it (not much), was the blackest I've ever seen. She reluctantly let us change the oil and filter after we completed the brake repairs and did that part of the job for free and then says that she doen't have the money.

You would not believe the amount of things that we see similar to this. If you love your bike then maintain it. Use the best highest quality fluids available. When something does not seem right, look into it immediately. Sometimes a simple repair like a chain, belt adjustment or tightening a compensator sprocket can prevent catastrophic damage.

Anyone out there who has over 20K and has not changed the lifters and cam bearing is asking for a disaster. Treat them right and you will be rewarded with the bike treating you right. Only my experiences tho 

[harleytoprock]

I had a A lifter wheel bearing fall apart at 22k miles. Never made it to the recommended 25K change out and thats with every 3K synthetic oil changes. So, I'd recommend changing out the A lifters at 20k miles.

[Trip]

Its the same old thing..theres biker type people and theres wanna be type people..i,d say the ratio is 1:99 ....if i find any A lifters at all..i change em..i dont care if its only got 5k on em. 99% of the yokals treat their "prestige IE: Harley" like an SUV....soon as some other fad comes along...they,ll jump on that bandwagon to...when i quit seeing numbnuts wearing full leathers in 85*f weather...i,ll know things are finally changing.

[Beave]

I put 120K on my 86 Heritage with A lifters before replacing them, but I never touched the motor the whole time.  They never did fail, but showed moderate wear on the rollers.   I replaced the cam, inner bearing,  lifters and springs and now the B lifters need replaced every 25K. I think the stock configuration was fairly reliable, but any modifications tend shorten their life dramatically. Since we love to modify, they should be at the first of the list.  The stock bottom end went 205K before it shelled a timken.  I bet my 05 Twinkie won't run that long.

[Trip]

You,re replacing B lifters at 25?? ...you must have a cam thats better than .500 then ?? ...I,ll bet that twinkie never sees 70k before massive failure.

[Beave]

Well, I was running 175# springs with .560" lift and then a DM580 after I stroked it.  After trashing those cams, I've gone back to .500" lift and stock springs to decrease valve train stress.  I was wearing out pushrod tips too.  It was a beast with the high lift cams, but now I'm letting the stroke do the work on a milder build. I'm looking for longer life as opposed to max power.  I expect my lifter life to increase accordingly.

[Trip]

It should..but pull em at 30 anyway...i would...anything above .495 is beyond design specs for the oem lifters..ya know?

[86fxwg]

We dont change liters in our cars.As long as the B lifters are used and a stock to mild cam are run theyl go the life of the engine.105,000 on mine with an SE-4 cam.and regular oil changes.


Dave

[Trip]

NO they wont......and you,re posting really bad info.

[86fxwg]

I guess beave dont have 120000 on his heritage,I guess i dont have 105 on my 86.My wifes 97 softail had the a lifters done at 35000 when the se-3 cam was installed now has 73000 on it with the b lifters.Maybe you should change your car lifters every 20000 miles.Im not debating the need to replace the a lifters at 20000 miles but like i said as long as the cam is stock to mild i dont worry about it.
Just my 2 cents cause thats all its worth!

[hbkeith]

ive changed my SE adjustables without removeing top,but its a pain to get to adjuster,down to far in block, how are the andrews EZ installs ?

[Norton Commando]

Just another data point: I put over 50,000 miles on my "A" lifters before changing to "B" lifters. And the "A" lifters still looked serviceable when I removed them. 

[sandrooney]

How do you know if you have A or B lifters I have a 95 Road King.
Thanks,
SR

[14Frisco]

If the lifters have never been changed on a 1995 FLHR, I believe you have neither A nor B.  1995 EVOs came with 18523-86, I think.

The lifters in my 94 FLHR have failed at the regular interval of 30,000 miles.  First set at 30K, 2nd set at 60K.  And I have now 90K+ on the odometer and am ordering up a new set soon.

[sandrooney]

14Frisco,
Which lifters do you have?
Thanks,
SR

[FSG]

1995 EVO's came with 18523-86 , sure did.   

[sandrooney]

Is that good ?
Thanks,
SR

[14Frisco]

I have always run OEM lifters.  Initially 18523-86 since the bike came with those.  Then 18523-86 again after the first fiasco.  Then 18523-86B after the second fiasco, and that's the set I am currently running.  And planning to replace with a new set for preventative reasons soon.

FYI, a HD part number is of the format nnnnn-yy.

yy is the year a part was initially introduced.
When there is a new version of the part, a capital letter is appended to the part number.  The first time the part is upgraded the letter A is used, second time the letter B is used etc.   Such upgraded parts replaces the original part (part number) and always fit exactly as the original part.  So, nnnnn-yyB means it is the third revision of the part nnnnn-yy.

Thus, initially the lifter was 18523-86 and it was introduced in 1986,  Then it was upgraded to 18523-86A.  Then it was upgraded again to 18523-86B.

Is it good if you have 18523-86 in your 1995 Road King?  Several factors come into play, like which cam you are running and how many miles you have on the bike, but I'd say no and if I was you I would replace them.  If the original OEM cam bearing is still in there, that would be a good time to replace it as well.  If you bought the bike used, the previous owner(s) may have already done some of that, but for peace of mind...

[sandrooney]

I bought the bike in Aug. from the original owner. It had 15,000 miles, it now has 20,000 miles. He didn't do anything to it except normal maintenance.
I will probably be putting in a cam at some point, and I guess I will change them then. I never had an EVO before, I went straight from pans and shovels to the TC, 05 Ultra, then 07 Ultra which I have now. I wanted to have a second bike so I decided to get the EVO since I had never had one before,man I didn't know what I was missing, I love it, it is a nice smooth tight bike, just feels right if you know what I mean. I have 32,000 miles on my Ultra and love it also, it's always a tough choice which one to ride, but a nice problem to have.
Thanks 14Frisco,
SR

[hogget]

i'm a bit confused - some of these posts talk about adjustable lifters, but i thought stock were hydraulic - should the stock hydraulic lifters be changed regularly (in my case every 20 years)

my 88 heritage has 36k and is stock except for SE carb and samson pipes

appreciate your advice

[sandrooney]

I think they are talking about adj. pushrods.
SR

[elvislee]

OK so, HD stops useing the 86A lifters in 1994 as I understand and the last year the FXR was produced. In 1999-2000 HD decides to build the last FXR with It's remaining leftover FXR frames and the 1999 Evo motor at the York, Pa. plant and produces the last Fxr (The Fxr2/3/4) Looking at my parts manual for my 4, the lifters used were the 86A's. They musta had some of them left laying around too, God forbid they (MOCO) put substandard parts in a high $ machine just for the sake of getting rid of them. They wouldn't really do that would they?     Only got 11k on the bike but changin cam in two months and will replace the A with the B then and also change to the B-138 Torrington bearing. Still trying to decide if I want to go adjustable pushrods or stay stock. 

[smittyon66]

elvislee,
SE adjustables are the only way to go IMHO. To reuse the stock pushrods, you have to pull the front motor mount to get clearance to get the rocker boxes off. With the adjustables, just cut the stock pushrods with a set of bolt cutters and put the new pushrods in.

[elvislee]

elvislee,
SE adjustables are the only way to go IMHO. To reuse the stock pushrods, you have to pull the front motor mount to get clearance to get the rocker boxes off. With the adjustables, just cut the stock pushrods with a set of bolt cutters and put the new pushrods in.

Yea smitty, my dilemma though a little one is this. My front top rocker cover is peeling chrome a spot about the size of a nickel. I want to replace the cover so I'm thinking If I do that with the cam change I can go ahead and drop the motor and use stock/oem rods since the covers are coming off anyway.

My second option is since my rocker cover gaskets (Upper, lower, and middle were replaced just 4k mi ago) and no leaks, I'm thinking I can just replace the front rocker cover since I think I don't have to drop the motor to replace that one and then just tighten the new cover up and as you said, cut the old stock push rods and install SE adjustables. The only thing I'm wondering about this is do I have to replace the upper rocker cover gasket if I go this route or can I just remove the rocker cover, replace the cover on the existing gasket and go on with my business?

[crazylore]

I went with Andrews Adjustables chromoly when I did my cam change......easy to install..no problems...good reply Trip